Destroyed Atlantis = Menorah

[King of the Americas]

Plato invented the story of Atlantis as an allegory...

*Objection* Speculation.

 

[abaddon]

Greetings JREF'ers,

Truly it has been too long...

I hope all of you are well.

The thing that brings me back, is that I'd like feedback on a particular "woo-subject" I was introduced to last week.

So...along the Spanish coast are remnants of 'half' of Atlantis...

http://atlantipedia.ie/samples/tag/hierarchical-constraint-satisfaction/

There are some who postulate that the Menorah was misconstrued as a candle stick, rather than a symbol of the lost city, with half its concentric circles missing.

I've always found Atlantis to be the unfound Troy- a mythical city lost to our knowledge, trapped behind indecipherable passages, waiting to be found by someone willing to look where others have not...

Thoughts?

Well, my first thought was "Why does this poster not know that Spain and Morocco are different countries"

 

[abaddon]

Greetings JREF'ers,

Truly it has been too long...

I hope all of you are well.

The thing that brings me back, is that I'd like feedback on a particular "woo-subject" I was introduced to last week.

So...along the Spanish coast are remnants of 'half' of Atlantis...

http://atlantipedia.ie/samples/tag/hierarchical-constraint-satisfaction/

There are some who postulate that the Menorah was misconstrued as a candle stick, rather than a symbol of the lost city, with half its concentric circles missing.

I've always found Atlantis to be the unfound Troy- a mythical city lost to our knowledge, trapped behind indecipherable passages, waiting to be found by someone willing to look where others have not...

Thoughts?

Well, my first thought was "Why does this poster not know that Spain and Morocco are different countries". Perhaps if the area in question were Tangier, one could argue it was close to Spain, but it isn't Tangier, it's Agadir in the linked article some 400 miles south.

My second thought was "What on earth does a Menorah come into it?" The linked article makes no mention of such a thing.

My third thought was that unfound ancient cities are, by definition, unfound. One may make no claims about an unfound ancient city or what happened there anymore than one can make claims about the ancient mating behaviour of leprechauns.

My fourth thought was that finding ancient monuments/cities/artefacts happens all the time. So what is the big deal? You only have to look at the likes of Tell Aswad (9000 BCE) or Gobleki Tepi (8000 BCE) for example.

My fifth thought was "Coastal remains are fairly commonplace"

None of this leads to Atlantis in any way. So what was your point?

 

[King of the Americas]

Well, my first thought was "Why does this poster not know that Spain and Morocco are different countries"

Because my understanding and knowledge about this topic is both limited and obscured.

I came here to ask questions, and become more informed. My apologies for the inaccuracies put forth. This is not my field of study, nor something I have seen with my own eyes.

 

[King of the Americas]

Well, my first thought was "Why does this poster not know that Spain and Morocco are different countries". Perhaps if the area in question were Tangier, one could argue it was close to Spain, but it isn't Tangier, it's Agadir in the linked article some 400 miles south.

My second thought was "What on earth does a Menorah come into it?" The linked article makes no mention of such a thing.

My third thought was that unfound ancient cities are, by definition, unfound. One may make no claims about an unfound ancient city or what happened there anymore than one can make claims about the ancient mating behaviour of leprechauns.

My fourth thought was that finding ancient monuments/cities/artefacts happens all the time. So what is the big deal? You only have to look at the likes of Tell Aswad (9000 BCE) or Gobleki Tepi (8000 BCE) for example.

My fifth thought was "Coastal remains are fairly commonplace"

None of this leads to Atlantis in any way. So what was your point?

James Cameron is making or has made a movie about the connection between the lost Atlantis and the Menorah. I provided the link...

What was "Troy" before it was found?

The 'big deal' is the skeptics have long since help Atlantis as pure "woo"...finding it actual remnants would remove it from the lore section, to how we 'see' Troy today.

 

[abaddon]

Because my understanding and knowledge about this topic is both limited and obscured.

I came here to ask questions, and become more informed. My apologies for the inaccuracies put forth. This is not my field of study, nor something I have seen with my own eyes.

You are claiming you have never seen a globe/atlas/map? Is that what you are saying?

Sorry, I don't buy that at all.

You are clearly on the internet and could look up whatever map you want, were you motivated to do so.

You also do not appear to have read your linked article as it states Morocco in the very first sentence.

You also chose to address half of one out of five points made.

 

[King of the Americas]

You are claiming you have never seen a globe/atlas/map? Is that what you are saying?

Sorry, I don't buy that at all.

You are clearly on the internet and could look up whatever map you want, were you motivated to do so.

You also do not appear to have read your linked article as it states Morocco in the very first sentence.

You also chose to address half of one out of five points made.

First, these are not 'my' claims...

Second, I'm not arguing I was correct.

Indeed, the first link I provided was the wrong link, and not the one I had read, or the one I intended to post.

You've addressed none of my questions or points. Careful your hypocrisy is showing.

 

[Lukraak_Sisser]

There is a big difference between a city mentioned in a heroic epic, of which history pretty much always assumed it was based at least partially on real events and a story in a series of allegories where the author indicates it is written as an allegory.\

Even if Plato however had not explained Atlantis was an allegory, we have enough indication of the sea bed of the world that a sunken continent would have been found. After all, we found a tiny abandoned city based on far less information.

And why would a menorah be connected to Atlantis at all? Atlantis is not part of the Jewish mythology.

 

[Mojo]

What was "Troy" before it was found?

The 'big deal' is the skeptics have long since help Atlantis as pure "woo"...finding it actual remnants would remove it from the lore section, to how we 'see' Troy today.

This would appear to be a variation on the "they laughed at the Wright brothers..." argument.

 

[Mojo]

First, these are not 'my' claims...

Second, I'm not arguing I was correct.

You're just asking questions?

 

[JesseCuster]

3. Yes, people believe they have found Atlantis, as part of the Spanish coast.

People also believe they've found Atlantis in the Sahara desert. And in Greenland. And in South America. And in Antarctica.

Declarations are regularly made by someone or other that they've 'found Atlantis' somewhere or other. A significant amount of them claim that their find "matches many of the geographical details recorded by Plato".

Is there anything in particular about this claim that means it should be taken seriously?

 

[Beelzebuddy]

I came here to ask questions, and become more informed.

Why do people always say this when they're being obnoxious?

"I am but a humble seeker of knowledge, so shut up and stop being wrong and start providing some knowledge already!"


I would like you to answer p0lka's question. What is Atlantis?

 

[abaddon]

First, these are not 'my' claims...

Yet you posted them without making that clear.

Second, I'm not arguing I was correct.

Now they are your claims?

Indeed, the first link I provided was the wrong link, and not the one I had read, or the one I intended to post.

Post the correct link then.

You've addressed none of my questions or points. Careful your hypocrisy is showing.

Nope. Without the correct link nobody can be sure what you are on about. Otherwise you are JAQing about a link you decline to share and nobody else has seen.

ETA: Ah, I see you have.

 

[abaddon]

And a brief little modicum of research later, we find that we have a crank on our hands named Freund.

http://www.jasoncolavito.com/blog/natgeos-shameful-atlantis-documentary-more-atlantis-bible-nonsense

His tall tale has more holes than a swiss cheese.

 

[GT/CS]

http://www.asalas.org/doku.php
I don't know if this is what you were trying to link to but it's certainly an interesting read.
The author claims the city of Atlantis is still on dry ground.
He does a good job of trying to tie all of Plato's descriptions to this particular area, and assuming Plato based his description of Atlantis on a real place this one works better than most. Maybe he vacationed there and was enthralled with the area, who knows?

That said, there is most likely no advanced city under the dirt.

 

[King of the Americas]

This would appear to be a variation on the "they laughed at the Wright brothers..." argument.

Characterizations are not arguments.

 

[King of the Americas]

There is a big difference between a city mentioned in a heroic epic, of which history pretty much always assumed it was based at least partially on real events and a story in a series of allegories where the author indicates it is written as an allegory.\

Even if Plato however had not explained Atlantis was an allegory, we have enough indication of the sea bed of the world that a sunken continent would have been found. After all, we found a tiny abandoned city based on far less information.

And why would a menorah be connected to Atlantis at all? Atlantis is not part of the Jewish mythology.

Before you develop an opinion...maybe check out the 'correct' link provided?

 

[King of the Americas]

People also believe they've found Atlantis in the Sahara desert. And in Greenland. And in South America. And in Antarctica.

Declarations are regularly made by someone or other that they've 'found Atlantis' somewhere or other. A significant amount of them claim that their find "matches many of the geographical details recorded by Plato".

Is there anything in particular about this claim that means it should be taken seriously?

Concentric circular docks...Check out the link or James Cameron's film...

 

[King of the Americas]

... What is Atlantis?

You've never heard of Atlantis...really?

And you post here regularly...?

I guess that's sarcasm I'm detecting?

 

[Lukraak_Sisser]

Before you develop an opinion...maybe check out the 'correct' link provided?

Why?
I have had education in classical languages and actually have read some plato in greek and enough of it in my own language to form my own opinion.

IF, and that is a very big if, atlantis contrary to all current known information turns out to be real I'm sure I will hear of it trough a different channel than trough some random link, especially one where the one linking it won't explain what parts of it are compelling to him.

I know this forum is actually virus free, some random link, not so much.