Desperate Atheist searching for Answers

[SnuffSnuff]

Hello,

I have been lurking around this site for a little more than a year I believe, but never had the courage to sign up and become a member because I felt less intelligent than most of the posters even though I could follow most of the conversations (or arguments) posted. Thanks to some helpful prodding to join (thanks to you SilentKnight) and simply because my curiosity to add my two cents into most of the posts I decided to go ahead and open up with something that has been bothering me lately. I was wondering if anyone would be kind enough to help.

I am an atheist, which is not quite so bad around my circle of friends considering they themselves are atheist or agnostic themselves. However, I am also a Mexican, a race known for its extreme traditional values of both family and religion (or maybe it could just be MY family who upholds these laws still – please correct me if I am wrong). My family does not sit well with the fact that I openly admitted I was atheist and a good portion of them wants nothing to do with me. Being born into the traditionalist home where family is more important than anything else, I was devastated to lose these ties just by simply speaking my mind and ‘coming out’ to not believing in God.

My own parents can’t seem to accept the fact that I am atheist in the first place and my mother seems to question where she went wrong in raising me. Despite this, she still tries to ‘knock sense into me’ with conversations that wrap around me admitting that everything I do is within God’s will. A good example of this was when she asked me why she thinks that I firmly believe that I go nowhere when I die and starts to question why my own life even matters then if I am not rewarded in the afterlife. I simply told her that the only one responsible for my life is myself and that I would make the best of it. She still continues to goad me that such a thing is not possible and if God wanted to end my life, he would do it at this very moment. Stupid things like this is what I have to look forward to whenever I mention anything close to God-related matters and hope I outlive my mother because she firmly stated that she would give me a Catholic funeral and ignore my pleas to cremate me and give me a proper, non-church burial.

This, on top of my parents’ need to control everything I do, is the reason why I left them very recently to stay with my supportive boyfriend and finish my University studies in Sweden instead. I understand this is a huge step and so far I am able to handle it, much to my parents’ surprise. They obviously were not happy at all and gave me a ton of negative support along the way. Still, I showed them in that!

I am not saying that they do not love me – they obviously care very much about me and would rather wish I be the perfect daughter they see in their eyes. I am able to breathe a bit better without them trying to convert me to see ‘the light’ or control everything I do while I stayed under their roof. I was wondering if anyone could give me some advice on how I should mend wounds when I eventually do return back home. I know things will definitely not be the same and I hope my parents would see that I live the life I wish to have and came out good because of it. Will they ever accept me as a person? Are there any words need said? Or is time the only factor, lots and lots of time?

I am sorry if this topic has been discussed already. I tried to find a proper existing topic to squeeze this in.

Regards,
Snuffie

 

[Chaunceyworld]

Hello, I don't have any glorious answer here. I do believe that over time those we are around begin to see we are not demons. And they react a bit less emotionally to what they believe to be heresy.
That said, I have only one family member who suspects I am an atheist. I have not had the courage to tell my family of my beliefs, partly because I feel I could not justify it as well as in some of the threads here. However, I don't have to justify it, now, do I?
I'll be watching this thread, thanks for posting...
s

 

[Jontg]

...
Do you want a hug?

 

[biomorph]

Hello,

I have been lurking around this site for a little more than a year I believe, but never had the courage to sign up and become a member because I felt less intelligent than most of the posters even though I could follow most of the conversations (or arguments) posted. Thanks to some helpful prodding to join (thanks to you SilentKnight) and simply because my curiosity to add my two cents into most of the posts I decided to go ahead and open up with something that has been bothering me lately. I was wondering if anyone would be kind enough to help.

Welcome to the forum!

I am an atheist, which is not quite so bad around my circle of friends considering they themselves are atheist or agnostic themselves.

Sounds like you are in good company

However, I am also a Mexican, a race known for its extreme traditional values of both family and religion (or maybe it could just be MY family who upholds these laws still – please correct me if I am wrong).

I'm guessing that's in the fine old catholic tradition then?

My family does not sit well with the fact that I openly admitted I was atheist and a good portion of them wants nothing to do with me.

Me too. My opinion is that's their problem, and hey, it's your life, and not theirs...

Being born into the traditionalist home where family is more important than anything else, I was devastated to lose these ties just by simply speaking my mind and ‘coming out’ to not believing in God.

Well that doesn't mean you have to reject the family value thing. however that is up to you. I did.
Being an atheist is not really the same, or automatically the same thing yeah?

My own parents can’t seem to accept the fact that I am atheist in the first place and my mother seems to question where she went wrong in raising me.

That's because religion does tend to make people guilt trip over this stuff.
Why doesn't she blame god? for instance....

Despite this, she still tries to ‘knock sense into me’ with conversations that wrap around me admitting that everything I do is within God’s will.

That is because if the problem (you) is intractable, then they move the goalposts in their own mind to accomodate information that contradicts the belief.

Of course if true, what you've said there, then it must also be god's wiil that you decided to not go along with the whole thing. see the contradiction there?

A good example of this was when she asked me why she thinks that I firmly believe that I go nowhere when I die and starts to question why my own life even matters then if I am not rewarded in the afterlife.

Doesn't matter.
There's no purpose, no afterlife.
You won't know it when you are gone. so go off and have fun while you are here.....
That is what matters, what you do when you are alive.....

I simply told her that the only one responsible for my life is myself and that I would make the best of it.

true

She still continues to goad me that such a thing is not possible and if God wanted to end my life, he would do it at this very moment.

But he/it/she has not done so, end your life that is....so either the god wants you as you are, with no belief, ordoesn't exist. I'm sure you can figure that one out....shame your mum has'nt got there yet....yet.

Stupid things like this is what I have to look forward to whenever I mention anything close to God-related matters and hope I outlive my mother because she firmly stated that she would give me a Catholic funeral and ignore my pleas to cremate me and give me a proper, non-church burial.

Won't matter how you are buried etc. you won't be around to notice.........and I tend to avoid the god bit with the family, it just ends up in a fight. I respect the fact that they choose to believe, but not the belief itself of course.

This, on top of my parents’ need to control everything I do, is the reason why I left them very recently to stay with my supportive boyfriend and finish my University studies in Sweden instead.

Yeah, that can rub a bit....but hey the control bit sounds hideious, it was for me too. I left. they now have been forced, over time to realise that I'm grown up now (well sort of) and I'll run my life how I want to. It's none of their business any more.

Religion hates losing control, because that is what it is all about really. your family are trapped, you escaped. they might even be a bit jealous, well some of them might be, maybe. they won't tell you that of course....

I understand this is a huge step and so far I am able to handle it, much to my parents’ surprise. They obviously were not happy at all and gave me a ton of negative support along the way. Still, I showed them in that!

well come on, have they ever left the country? everyone else seems to manage ok, you will too i guess, and are of course...

I am not saying that they do not love me – they obviously care very much about me and would rather wish I be the perfect daughter they see in their eyes.

you may have to redefine the word love here, it isn't them that does'nt care, its the religion that can't stand being denied.

I am able to breathe a bit better without them trying to convert me to see ‘the light’ or control everything I do while I stayed under their roof.

No doubt. I'm not sure I like this control bit. yuo need space, and so do they...

I was wondering if anyone could give me some advice on how I should mend wounds when I eventually do return back home.

You might not be able to mend it that quick.
Live somewhere that isn't so close to your family, when back there, if you can.

I know things will definitely not be the same and I hope my parents would see that I live the life I wish to have and came out good because of it.

that could take some time and patience, however you can hope......it might take a non family member to point that out tho, maybe.

Will they ever accept me as a person? Are there any words need said? Or is time the only factor, lots and lots of time?

don't know really, they have to accept that you are what you are eventually. some of mine managed it, the younger ones mainly. the rest have me on ignore still, after 20 yrs.

I am sorry if this topic has been discussed already. I tried to find a proper existing topic to squeeze this in.

Regards,
Snuffie

no need to apologise, sounds tricky, but actually normal for the generation that decides to dump all that stuff in the trash can. You are not alone, there's mill's of atheists who one way or the other have done what you have had to do...me for one.

Just don't get annoyed with them, don't be bullied by them, and if like me it got really physically heavy, don't go back, ever. letters and telephones are the key here.

Wow you've given me one hell of a flashback to my teen years.......thanks. You'll make it ok.......try not to worry about it too much, otherwise they might pick up on it and try to rag it, just stay cool and it'll show them that you can handle it in a quiet, adult manner. They'll give up maybe then. Eventually.

regards and best of luck...

 

[biomorph]

...
Do you want a hug?

i think the answer is yes, most likley.....

 

[Nursefoxfire]

Welcome to the forum!

I'm just trying to figure out how a Mexican got to Sweden

 

[Safe-Keeper]

Built your cupboard wrong, did you?

I don't really know what to tell you. I'm sort of glad you've made it to Scandinavia as atheism is accepted here, as you've probably realized, so you'll be able to be open about your disbelief without getting shunned by friends. At least not for being an atheist, dunno how they react to your heritage. We can be a xenophobic lot.

Other than that... just hang on and you'll probably be joined in this thread by others with a similar experience. I actually think, believe it or not, that there are support groups online for people leaving religion, too.

 

[SnuffSnuff]

Hello, I don't have any glorious answer here. I do believe that over time those we are around begin to see we are not demons. And they react a bit less emotionally to what they believe to be heresy.
That said, I have only one family member who suspects I am an atheist. I have not had the courage to tell my family of my beliefs, partly because I feel I could not justify it as well as in some of the threads here. However, I don't have to justify it, now, do I?
I'll be watching this thread, thanks for posting...
s

I am assuming the 'we' are the atheists and the 'they' are those who aren't.

But thanks for your reply!

 

[biomorph]

I actually think, believe it or not, that there are support groups online for people leaving religion, too.

i've never used this facility, but here's an example site possibly............

http://www.leavingreligion.org/

 

[SnuffSnuff]

Welcome to the forum!

I'm guessing that's in the fine old catholic tradition then?

Yep, as far as I can tell.

Well that doesn't mean you have to reject the family value thing. however that is up to you. I did.
Being an atheist is not really the same, or automatically the same thing yeah?

I wish my closed-up family could see the reasoning behind accepting differences.

That's because religion does tend to make people guilt trip over this stuff.
Why doesn't she blame god? for instance....

Because God is responsible for GOOD things

regards and best of luck...

Thank you.

 

[SnuffSnuff]

Welcome to the forum!

I'm just trying to figure out how a Mexican got to Sweden

Well, you know, just crossed the Atlantic border.

...by plane, of course.

 

[Nursefoxfire]

Built your cupboard wrong, did you?

That was a fantastic video! Thanks for the link!

 

[SnuffSnuff]

i've never used this facility, but here's an example site possibly............

Thank you for the link.

 

[lumos]

Sorry to hear your troubles. Religious beliefs are simply not directly compatible with reason and logic. Your family will not rapidly change and I expect there is very little you can say to them to make them "see the light".

I suppose I would point out to them that their religion is so evil that it is making family members cast out one of their own. It is straining a mother's relationship with a daughter simply because the daughter chose to abandon foolish beliefs. How can that be "good"? Simply put, saying "believe as I tell you or you are less than me" is truly evil. A god that would encourage a parent to abandon their child is not a god I'd want to be a part of and not one I'd look up to.

You may also point out that if god is omnipotent and omnipresent, there is nothing you can do to offend him. If he can control you and end your life or answer your prayers, there is no free-will (not that there ever was, but it doesn't really matter).

Find strength in reality. Congratulations, your family is evolving! (changing with new generations, that's a good thing)

 

[biomorph]

Built your cupboard wrong, did you?

Safe-keeper, that is so cool.

 

[biomorph]

Yep, as far as I can tell.

thought so, rings a bell so to speak....

I wish my closed-up family could see the reasoning behind accepting differences.

there's years of tradition there, that's the problem. It is so hard for them to consider that in all those years that someone (them or the ancestors) might have got it wrong. doubt is a mortal wound for religion. It fights back.

Because God is responsible for GOOD things

LOL

Thank you.

You're welcome

 

[SnuffSnuff]

Sorry to hear your troubles. Religious beliefs are simply not directly compatible with reason and logic. Your family will not rapidly change and I expect there is very little you can say to them to make them "see the light".

I suppose I would point out to them that their religion is so evil that it is making family members cast out one of their own. It is straining a mother's relationship with a daughter simply because the daughter chose to abandon foolish beliefs. How can that be "good"? Simply put, saying "believe as I tell you or you are less than me" is truly evil. A god that would encourage a parent to abandon their child is not a god I'd want to be a part of and not one I'd look up to.

You may also point out that if god is omnipotent and omnipresent, there is nothing you can do to offend him. If he can control you and end your life or answer your prayers, there is no free-will (not that there ever was, but it doesn't really matter).

Find strength in reality. Congratulations, your family is evolving! (changing with new generations, that's a good thing)

I did bring this up multiple times with both my mother and father...but I guess they don't believe that God can do awful things like split a family apart over him. I haven't brought up the 'nothing I can do to offend him' part, and I feel less inclined to do so after some of the arguments we've had. To them, I guess family isn't supposed to change and it is supposed to stay traditional to the bone.

"But dad, remember what happened to the Aztecs?"

And as for the 'Instruction Manual' video...it was spot on, in an almost creepy kind of way.

 

[PrincessIneffabelle]

My heart goes out to you. How difficult it must be to go through this at such a turbulent time (early adulthood). I will try to offer some helpful advice.

1) You cannot change your parents' behavior or mindset. The only thing you can control is your own behavior. They may, in time, come to accept your (lack of) belief, but don't count on it. Even if you can personally show them that atheists can be "good", they will probably never have a change of heart about something that is so ingrained into them.

2) Understand that they are products of their upbringing. Think about the pressures, punishments, lack of information, and unquestionable dogma that they may have been brought up with. What kind of beliefs were beaten -- socially, mentally, or even physically -- into them. Understanding why they believe the way they do may help you understand their rejection of your (lack of) belief.

3) Remember that, when you return home, your relationship with your family will be different. If your family is clinging to the "old" family dynamics, remember that you don't have to. You are an adult and should try to act like one even when they're treating you like a child. This is easier said than done, since this is the way they've always related to you. They also know how to "push your buttons". When they start yammering on about their god-beliefs, try to remain calm. Practice if you have to! Try to say non-commital things like, "that's nice" or "I understand". Remember, it takes two to have an argument. When they start to verbally attack your (lack of) beliefs, see if you can change the subject. If they persist, calmly and reasonably explain that you don't want to discuss your personal beliefs with them and that you'd rather talk about something more pleasant or interesting. They may eventually realize that, not only are they not going to win, they can't even score any points.

4) You mentioned that your mom sees your lack of belief as her personal failure. This is not surprising ... and the fact that this is all happening at the same time that you're leaving home and entering true adulthood is probably very frightening to her. She has been responsible for you for a long time, and now you are changing in ways that she cannot control and doesn't understand. Please remember to let her know that you are still alive and doing well (or at least trying your best) and that you have to find the answers for yourself.

5) Don't sweat the funeral arrangements. You won't be there, so why should you care? So what if your mom puts on a big Catholic funeral for you ... funerals are for the survivors, anyway.

I see that a lot of people have posted since I started this reply, so I'll just finish by wishing you well (or is that too woo?). Work hard to educate yourself and find your place in the world.

 

[The Atheist]

Will they ever accept me as a person? Are there any words need said? Or is time the only factor, lots and lots of time?

Time heals wounds, and most often in families, so I'm sure some time away will help your family overcome their fears.

And that's the trouble - most of your family's attitutde will come from fear. Your mother especially will be upset by the thought that her child will go to hell. Understandable, I suppose.

What can you do? Avoid mentioning god and stick to loving and missing your family and telling them so. If your mother tries to raise the subject, stick to "I don't want to talk about it."

They'll come around.

 

[uruk]

I'm half Mexican and can tell you that it is not just your family. Mexicans are predominately and strongly Catholic. My mother is so devoted to the catholic church that she took classes to become a decon in the church.

My mother was dissapointed when I made my break form the church. I am an agnostic with athiesitic leanings rather than a full-blown athiest. But she at least allows me my choices for the most part.
She usually goads me from time to time by saying "you made your bed, now sleep in it. And when I put a Darwin fish on my car;" I hope Darwin will be there to answer your prayers". I replied "He'll probably answer my prayers with the same regularity as god." I still have the hand print in the back of my head from that.

If you excuse my refrence to scripture, but a suggestion might be; ”Those who bring trouble on their families inherit the wind.”

Familiy is family. Chances are that your family may never accept your athieism and they will always get on your case for it.

So either learn to live with thier persecution or reduce your contact with your family. I know it's that's a hard thing to do for a hispanic.