Merged Desiree Jennings, Dystonia and the Flu Shot

[snard!]

Anyone seen this yet?

Desiree Jennings, supposedly gets dystonia after flu shot.

I can't post with a link (due to not enough post history), but a google search of Desiree Jennings and Loudoun Times will get you the story.

Any thoughts?

The original article is from yesterday, and already there are multiple hits on google from conspiracy/antivax sites. Looks like they're gonna be all over this one, similar to the english teen (Natalie Morton) and Cervarix.

 

[GodMark2]

Did she also get dystonia after eating oatmeal?
Did she also get dystonia after drinking city water?
Did she also get dystonia after sleeping in a bed?
Did she also get dystonia after walking more than 200 feet?

"After something" does not mean "because of something". If you want to sound all fancy, "Post hoc, ergo propter hoc" is the name of the logical fallacy(often shortened to "Post hoc"). To counter ask "Wow! How many other cases are there?" or any of the above questions, and start poking away at the flimsy answers. End with "Gee, sounds like a coincidence to me".

 

[snard!]

Maybe someone with link-posting ability can post the original link (I can't).

The original story is pretty short on details. (Big surprise there, huh?)
There is also a link on the local NBC affiliate website, if I recall correctly.

GodMark2, thanks for the reply. (I had similar thoughts.)

 

[Eos of the Eons]

This is like the girl with the huge tumor that finally killed her, only of course it had to be after she got a vaccine one day.

Oh, already mentioned... but I had to say again.

 

[Matthew Best]

Maybe someone with link-posting ability can post the original link (I can't).

http://www.loudountimes.com/blogs/l...oun-lowdown-nicholas-graham-flu-shot-desiree/

 

[snard!]

Thanks Matthew, for posting the link.

Yeah, it's somewhat ironic that the person who has come down with the dystonia just so happens to be trying to become a professional cheerleader.
(Which adds to the sympathy factor, I would think.)

I will be interested to hear what the eventual outcome of this is. (Other than it being used by the anti-vax people; I have already seen the case cited as proof that flu shots "cause" dystonia.)

 

[jasonpatterson]

Wow, this article is shockingly stupid.

The girl gets the seasonal flu shot vaccination on August 23 and 10 days later has "flu-like symptoms – fever, vomiting, weakness in her legs, and body aches." On the 8th of September she apparently feels well enough to go to work and faints, things go downhill from there. Again, there's no mention of anything else that might have happened during those 10 days (or even a convincing link between the 'flu' and fainting.) This sort of thing drives me nuts.

If you read the comments for the article, they're both about thimerosal. This bugged me enough to get on there and add a comment. I wonder how many obscure newspapers I have accounts on now...

 

[Eos of the Eons]

Some people inherit dystonia. Others have it because of another disease.

http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/dystonia.html

Yeah okay. Somehow vaccines cause hair to go grey in old people that get seasonal flu vaccines now too.

 

[Gord_in_Toronto]

http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/dystonia.html

Yeah okay. Somehow vaccines cause hair to go grey in old people that get seasonal flu vaccines now too.

Bugger. I just got a letter from my family doctor saying I should come in for my annual flu shot. Should I ask him about the grey hair side-effect?

He does have a good sense of humour. I'll report back what he says.

 

[Eos of the Eons]

Bugger. I just got a letter from my family doctor saying I should come in for my annual flu shot. Should I ask him about the grey hair side-effect?

He does have a good sense of humour. I'll report back what he says.

You are not "old" yet. You should ask if it causes, um... balding instead... *ducks and runs*

 

[J-Funk]

Since I ran into Toronto Truth Seekers on Sept. 30 as they were spewing their anti-vaccination B.S. I have been reading their mailing list and this is the title one of them gave to a post about this story:

Woman Gets Flu Shot and is now RETARDED

You stay classy Truthers.

 

[Vic Vega]

"To minimize the stimuli which cause convulsions, she often has to wear soundproof headphones around the house and listen to music; Coldplay often does the trick."



Strangely enough, when I listen to Coldplay it causes vomiting...

 

[Kuko 4000]

Headline: Woman Disabled by Flu Shot Reaction

http://www.myfoxdc.com/dpp/health/101309_woman_disabled_by_flu_shot_reaction_dystonia

The shot was for the seasonal flu.

Ten days after receiving the shot, she came down with the flu. After that, her health spiraled downwards. She started passing out and had to be hospitalized twice.

...

Doctors at Fairfax Inova and Johns Hopkins diagnosed her with a rare neurological disorder called dystonia. They think it was caused by a severe reaction to the flu shot.

This is not good for the vaccine safety image and will no doubt get a big push from the alt med and other woo crowds

I'm waiting to hear more info on this.

 

[Dancing David]

This may be the same:
http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=156515

 

[Kuko 4000]

Thanks for merging!

 

[Snixtor]

Correlation strikes again.

The statistics the article throws around are interesting too. She's "one in a million". One in a million that develop serious side effects? One in a million that develop dystonia? With 100 million seasonal flu jabs annually, it would seem unlikely that the one in a million correlation could be referring to the development of dystonia.

Then there's the "36,000 die annually of the seasonal flu". With a global population of ~6.7 billion, that puts the chances of death from flu at greater than 1 in 200,000. Granted though... that isn't necessarily 1 in 200,000 cheerleaders.

 

[Segnosaur]

Well, here's something to add more confusion over the issue:

From: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jP0QYLMUZb4&feature=youtube_gdata
Dr. Leigh Vinocur and other experts feel that this is possibly psychogenic. It doesn't mean the woman is faking it. It means her symptoms are from her mind, and nothing is physically wrong with her...

(Warning: this is from FoxNews, which I know isn't exactly the most well-regarded source.)

Couple of other things to consider:
- From what I've read, Dystonia can be triggered by infections, so to me its not outside the possibility that the reaction is due to the vaccine causing the same type of reaction
- Even if it is a reaction to the vaccine, its likely that actually contracting the flu naturally would cause the same reactions (and thus the same 'disease')

 

[Slimething]

Couple of other things to consider:
- From what I've read, Dystonia can be triggered by infections, so to me its not outside the possibility that the reaction is due to the vaccine causing the same type of reaction
- Even if it is a reaction to the vaccine, its likely that actually contracting the flu naturally would cause the same reactions (and thus the same 'disease')

Add to that the very real possibility that she caught the flu anyway. One year, I got the flu shot and had one of the worst bouts with the flu about a month later. Only thing it had to do with the vaccine was the CDC guessing wrong on the strain that would hit.

 

[Kuko 4000]

Then there's the "36,000 die annually of the seasonal flu". With a global population of ~6.7 billion, that puts the chances of death from flu at greater than 1 in 200,000. Granted though... that isn't necessarily 1 in 200,000 cheerleaders.

The 36 000 deaths is in the US alone. According to WHO, the worldwide deaths from influenza are closer to:

http://www.who.int/mediacentre/factsheets/fs211/en/

Seasonal epidemics

Influenza epidemics occur yearly during autumn and winter in temperate regions. Illnesses result in hospitalizations and deaths mainly among high-risk groups (the very young, elderly or chronically ill). Worldwide, these annual epidemics result in about three to five million cases of severe illness, and about 250 000 to 500 000 deaths. Most deaths associated with influenza in industrialized countries occur among people age 65 or older. In some tropical countries, influenza viruses circulate throughout the year with one or two peaks during rainy seasons.

 

[voidx]

Yah, this was making the rounds among friends and family on Facebook. I've been battling it for the last day and a half.

As you say, people bring up the same things over and over:
- "The CDC in Canada has not done domestic trials of the new vaccine(yet, their in progress). That's bad." Never mind that we let plenty of vaccines and drugs into canada based on clincial trials from other countries.
- "Vaccine contains Thimerosal. Thimerosal = mercury = bad." Most people aren't even aware of WHY they put Thimerosal in the vaccine. I had a great link that discussed it.
- "That this is a direct side effect of vaccination." Well that implies that vaccines CAUSE Dystonia, which is not correct, human pysiology is a little too complicated to be summed up in such a black or white fashion. As mentioned infection can bring it on, so actually getting the flu could also have triggered her condition. Dystonia can also be hereditary, so she was likely already pre-disposed to it. In which case, any number of things could have potentially triggered it.

Overall, like you say, there's no evidence that the two events are linked. But people feel bad. Emotion and fear rule the day. I'm saddened by it as well, its unfortunate. But that shouldn't force rationality right out the window.

Heh, I've had several people convey their disappointment in me that I'm so susceptible to government propoganda and hype. Some comments are just too easy to shoot down as illogical. I may have a few less friends after this