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DeSantis’s Lost Cause

arayder said:
So what off-the-rails instruction is going on in schools?
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Oh, nothing that would bother a liberal who wants to characterize America as based upon evil, and normalize/promote social concepts that are freakish.
 
arayder said:
Substance please.
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I am not trying to waste my time convincing the members of this church that their beliefs are wrong...that is a lost cause, and this is their house of worship.

The important thing we have agreed upon is that off-the-rails teaching is real, and unacceptable.
 
Warp12 said:
Oh, nothing that would bother a liberal who wants to characterize America as based upon evil, and normalize/promote social concepts that are freakish.
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Who is teaching that America was based upon evil?

Please, an answer other than "libruls" would be appreciated. I'd like specific examples.
 
arayder said:
Substance please.
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Warp12 said:
I am not trying to waste my time convincing the members of this church that their beliefs are wrong...that is a lost cause, and this is their house of worship.

The important thing we have agreed upon is that off-the-rails teaching is real, and unacceptable.
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You say that not accepting off-the-rails instruction is "common ground".

But when asked to identify such being taught in the public schools you say you are busy.

I suspect you really don't know what is being taught in the country's public schools and therefor can't answer.

The curriculum of the public schools (your local one in particular) is not unknowable.
 
arayder said:
You say that not accepting off-the-rails instruction is "common ground".
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Are you disputing this is a common ground? That off-the-rails instruction is unacceptable? Or, are you characterizing that only conservatives resort to such things in practicality?

I am not going to turn this into a debate of specific subject matter, which is what I think you want.
 
I think Warp12 is just derailing the thread from the nonsense that DeSantis is doing in Florida. He's trying to introduce a "both sides do it" claim into the discussion. He's essentially saying that DeSantis is correct in undoing the liberal agenda that doesn't exist in the curriculum while trying not to appear that he's defending DeSantis agenda of turning public education into right-wing indoctrination.
 
thaiboxerken said:
He's essentially saying that DeSantis is correct in undoing the liberal agenda that doesn't exist in the curriculum while trying not to appear that he's defending DeSantis agenda of turning public education into right-wing indoctrination.
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By instructing teachers to teach things that are objectively false. It's not a matter of bias or opinion what the Confederates were fighting for. It's not a matter of opinion whether the US is based on Christian Nationalism principles.
 
One luxury enjoyed by every generation is to look back and laugh at the silly things their predecessors did and believed. Accordingly, I try to shape my beliefs by imagining what stupid things we're doing now that will amuse and perplex our descendants. It's a dicey proposition at best, as is anything that involves predicting the future. Nevertheless, there are several things I suspect will be true.

For instance, I have a hard time believing future generations will conclude Trump actually won the 2020 election, nor do I believe that they will have a great deal of sympathy for those currently trying to make political capital from that claim. I don't think they'll discover global warming is a hoax, and that it was a good thing we denied it and delayed measures to address it. I don't think future generations will laud our efforts to install more Christian ideals into the US government and educational system, and in the process make things more difficult for anyone who isn't white, male, and straight. I believe it's highly unlikely that the likes of Qanon and Alex Jones will someday be considered heroes.

Predicting what the future will make of a recent presidency is an especially iffy enterprise. But considering the Trump administration's close association with the preceding issues, there's a good chance it won't be very favorable. Similarly I can't be sure how our anti-immigration efforts will pan out. But based on our history, we've generally opposed immigration movements in the moment but subsequently ended up looking more favorably on them in retrospect (hell, the freaking Statue of Liberty itself sports a paean to immigration). As for abortion, I have no idea really -- but I do think it's likely that the USA will grow increasingly out of step with the rest of the world on that topic.

I could be wrong about a lot of this, of course. But I think it's reasonable to ask, what side of history do I really want to be on? And right now, it very much isn't with the collection of abominated ideals that comprise US conservatism, nor with the Republican party that supports this agenda.
 
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Yes this is the point I keep making. Whine about "bias" doesn't change the fact that some things are just factually wrong.

"Factually wrong" remember that? Before everything wrong was just "a bias."

America has a racist past. The Civil War was about slavery. Evolution happens. Climate Change is real and man-made. These are all facts, agreeing they are facts is not a bias, it's just not choosing to be intentionally and proudly wrong because the world is leaving you behind and the only reaction your tiny brain can come up with in response is to put on a giant performance art routine of being the most horrible person imaginable.
 
arayder said:
You say that not accepting off-the-rails instruction is "common ground".
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Warp12 said:
Are you disputing this is a common ground? That off-the-rails instruction is unacceptable?
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No

Or, are you characterizing that only conservatives resort to such things in practicality?
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No

I am not going to turn this into a debate of specific subject matter, which is what I think you want.
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So we have common ground, but you just don't want to talk about it.
 
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thaiboxerken said:
I think Warp12 is just derailing the thread from the nonsense that DeSantis is doing in Florida. He's trying to introduce a "both sides do it" claim into the discussion. He's essentially saying that DeSantis is correct in undoing the liberal agenda that doesn't exist in the curriculum while trying not to appear that he's defending DeSantis agenda of turning public education into right-wing indoctrination.
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A common conservative tactic is using an example of their side doing some bad thing as evidence that we should stop liberals from doing some other thing.

A conservative teacher was teaching religion in science class? See, that's proof that DeSantis is right to ban teaching about real historical facts in history!

It doesn't make sense, it doesn't have to. It just has to get a reaction from the libs.
 
One of the key tentpoles of the post-fact world is the idea that being factually correct shouldn't give one side an "unfair" advantage over the other.

That's why every Republican talking point is "The Democrats get to tell children facts, therefore if you don't let us lie to them it's unfair."

Now for this to work you have to reject the concept of a fact and the Republicans have certainly done that, but you also have to adopt a toxic personality that makes the simple of talking to you so unpleasant nobody wants to do it.
 
Warp12 said:
So you can obviously see how off-the-rails teaching and influence is unacceptable.
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We can also see your continuing failure to provide the requested examples of "freakish liberal ideals and beliefs being pressed on children".
 
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