DeSantis Martha's Vineyard Stunt

[wareyin]

Obviously you have not been following the thread. No surprise around here.

Obviously you have misunderstood what was being discussed, or are pretending to have misunderstood what was discussed in order to claim that the asylum seekers in question are "illegals." If you wish to disagree, please present your evidence that these specific 48 people had not crossed at a legal point of entry.

 

[Warp12]

But the law carved out exceptions for people from certain countries and gives them the legal right to be here while that process is ongoing. Therefore, they are not here illegally.

As for the border crossing itself, the NYT reports that these people turned themselves in to immigration officials with the intent to seek asylum. It’s not clear exactly how they entered the country, but if they did it at an established land crossing, it wouldn’t be an illegal entry. That’s what most asylum seekers do. Even if they crossed “illegally,” the fact that they turned themselves in and asked for asylum is mitigating.

People from Mexico are allowed to seek asylum, they just currently have to do it from Mexico because they will be sent back -that doesn’t make their attempted crossing illegal. It didn’t used to be like that -they would not be turned back or prosecuted for improper entry if they were seeking asylum. It is not a crime to enter the country to seek asylum.

Bottom line, like it or not, they have a legal right to be here and plead their case. While they are here, it is our duty (morally and legally) to treat them with dignity and respect.

I don't like it. They should cross at a legal port of entry. The US Government apparently feels the same, if you have been following the thread. It has also been pointed out that these migrants did not cross legally. Follow the thread more closely, if possible.

 

[Warp12]

Obviously you have misunderstood what was being discussed, or are pretending to have misunderstood what was discussed in order to claim that the asylum seekers in question are "illegals." If you wish to disagree, please present your evidence that these specific 48 people had not crossed at a legal point of entry.

Welcome to a week ago. It has already been pointed out by stacyhs that they crossed illegally. I mean, like to the Nth degree.

What is this, Groundhog Day??

 

[arayder]

. . . Follow the thread more closely, if possible.

You denial game's getting old, Professor.

 

[RecoveringYuppy]

That sort of treatment of accused people is not lawful in the U.S.

As far as I can tell they aren't/weren't even accused.

But the law carved out exceptions for people from certain countries and gives them the legal right to be here while that process is ongoing. Therefore, they are not here illegally.

Check back a few pages for the prosecution and migration statistics I cited and the asylum entry process that newyorkguy cited. The numbers aren't compatible with most migrants even being accused of entering illegally and that includes those entering at places like Yuma Gap. Unless there is something wrong with our citations then it appears Immigration authorities simply didn't get Warp12's memo on who is illegal.

 

[wareyin]

Welcome to a week ago. It has already been pointed out by stacyhs that they crossed illegally. I mean, like to the Nth degree.

What is this, Groundhog Day??

As I pointed out, you misunderstood the discussion. Your inability to provide evidence of where the 48 people in question crossed the border demonstrates that.

 

[Norman Alexander]

It's almost like there is some other reason our conservative interlocutor is insisting on his "moral superiority" and the "immediate removal of non-Caucasian 'illegals'". A reason more to do with incitement in this forum and less to do with personal politics...

 

[arayder]

As far as I can tell they aren't/weren't even accused.

Good point. In my mind I was thinking of Warp's accusation.

Check back a few pages for the prosecution and migration statistics I cited and the asylum entry process that newyorkguy cited. The numbers aren't compatible with most migrants even being accused of entering illegally and that includes those entering at places like Yuma Gap. Unless there is something wrong with our citations then it appears Immigration authorities simply didn't get Warp12's memo on who is illegal.

I read all that. Good stuff.

Warp sometimes argues that these folks are "illegal". Then he denies that claim and says they "should be illegal."

 

[Warp12]

As I pointed out, you misunderstood the discussion. Your inability to provide evidence of where the 48 people in question crossed the border demonstrates that.

Shiva H. Vishnu. We have played this over and over. And it is clear that where they entered does not make a rat's ass of difference under the law, nor in the mind of liberals. And that is my complaint.

 

[smartcooky]

As far as I can tell they aren't/weren't even accused.

You'd be right.

They were never charged or even accused of a crime, and they immediately applied for asylum, which means they are in the US legally. End of story!

 

[Stacyhs]

Whatever happened to the notion that immigrants, illegal or not, are fellow human beings? They are here now, so our duty as a nation is to ensure that they are treated with dignity and respect, period.

How can any citizen of a country that calls itself the greatest nation in the world be OK with the stunts pulled by DeSantis and Abbot? With their callous use and abuse of these people? We should be standing up and demanding their political heads for this! They have no business representing our states and our country.

It really sickens me to see so clearly how many people in this country cheer on this kind of utter depravity.

 

[smartcooky]

Shiva H. Vishnu. We have played this over and over. And it is clear that where they entered does not make a rat's ass of difference under the law...

And that is what really chaps your arse, isn't it?

...nor in the mind of liberals.

Nor in the minds of those people who believe that laws matter, and who believe and accept that people have human rights, and the right to be treated fairly and equitably, with dignity and without prejudice or discrimination, regardless of their race, skin-colour or ethnicity.

You are not one of those people!

 

[arayder]

Shiva H. Vishnu. We have played this over and over. And it is clear that where they entered does not make a rat's ass of difference under the law, nor in the mind of liberals. And that is my complaint.

LOL. . .Son, you have a boat load of complaints.

And they all come from that highly biased, judgmental place.

The law is not what you make it and other people don't exist so you can have someone to hate and abuse.

Don't try to deny it. You are here in the hopes you can abuse some liberals. Every few posts the beast gets loose and you tell the people here that they are stupid, haven't read the thread. . .or are just plain lowly liberals.

That thang is a' eatin' ya' up, son.

 

[Stacyhs]

It's almost like there is some other reason our conservative interlocutor is insisting on his "moral superiority" and the "immediate removal of non-Caucasian 'illegals'". A reason more to do with incitement in this forum and less to do with personal politics...

 

[smartcooky]

Whatever happened to the notion that immigrants, illegal or not, are fellow human beings? They are here now, so our duty as a nation is to ensure that they are treated with dignity and respect, period.

How can any citizen of a country that calls itself the greatest nation in the world be OK with the stunts pulled by DeSantis and Abbot? With their callous use and abuse of these people? We should be standing up and demanding their political heads for this! They have no business representing our states and our country.

It really sickens me to see so clearly how many people in this country cheer on this kind of utter depravity.

It ceased to be part of the world-view of GOP supporters a long, long time ago!

 

[Norman Alexander]

Whatever happened to the notion that immigrants, illegal or not, are fellow human beings? They are here now, so our duty as a nation is to ensure that they are treated with dignity and respect, period.

How can any citizen of a country that calls itself the greatest nation in the world be OK with the stunts pulled by DeSantis and Abbot? With their callous use and abuse of these people? We should be standing up and demanding their political heads for this! They have no business representing our states and our country.

It really sickens me to see so clearly how many people in this country cheer on this kind of utter depravity.

There's the reason. They are not considered fellow human beings. They are untermensch, three-fifths, sub-human, brown-skinned apes, with all sorts of diseases and depravity. Not worthy to be subject to the same laws and privileges as us white-skinned civilised people. They worship strange gods, and can be exploited without any qualms.

 

[Stacyhs]

I hope this settles the debate once and for all. From the American Immigration Council:

Generally, a person who entered the United States without inspection is not eligible to apply for permanent residence. Six federal appellate circuits previously ruled on this issue. Three federal appellate circuits (the Sixth, Eighth, and Ninth Circuits) ruled that a person with valid TPS status could adjust status to lawful permanent residence if otherwise eligible through a family-based or employment-based petition, even if he or she entered the United States without inspection. Three other federal appellate courts (the Third, Fifth, and Eleventh Circuits) ruled that a TPS recipient who entered without inspection is not eligible to adjust to permanent residence.

In June 2021, the Supreme Court subsequently ruled that a TPS recipient who entered the United States without inspection is not eligible to adjust to permanent residence from within the United States, overturning the prior decisions by the Sixth, Eighth, and Ninth Circuits. In order to gain permanent resident status, a TPS recipient who initially entered the United States without inspection must depart the country to have a visa processed at a consular post. For many TPS holders, a departure to have a visa interview would trigger bars to re-entry for up to 10 years.

Alternatively, some TPS recipients may be eligible to adjust status if they were granted advance permission from USCIS (referred to as advance parole), traveled abroad, and were paroled back into the United States.

What happens to a TPS beneficiary when a TPS designation ends? TPS beneficiaries return to the immigration status that they held prior to receiving TPS, unless that status has expired or the person has successfully acquired a new immigration status. TPS beneficiaries who entered the United States without inspection and who are not eligible for other immigration benefits, for example, would return to being undocumented at the end of a TPS designation and become subject to removal.

This clearly states that those who entered, even with TPS, without going through inspection (border checkpoint) return to being "undocumented" and "subject to removal".

In case anyone wants to argue that "undocumented" is not the same as "illegal":

Legal immigrants are foreign-born people legally admitted to the U.S. Undocumented immigrants, also called illegal aliens, are foreign-born people who do not possess a valid visa or other immigration documentation, because they entered the U.S. without inspection, stayed longer than their temporary visa permitted, or otherwise violated the terms under which they were admitted.

 

[Warp12]

This all reads as testament of why it is awesome to be white. But yet, it should be frowned upon.

Not surprising.

 

[arayder]

This all reads as testament of why it is awesome to be white. But yet, it should be frowned upon.

Not surprising.

Assuming again, are you, Professor?

 

[lobosrul5]

Untrue; they crossed the border illegally. As has been pointed out for pages, recently. Imo, they should have been deported like say, a Mexican who committed the same crime.

Your opinion is not the basis for US Federal law. It does not supersede the Immigration and Nationality Act of 1965 or The Migration and Refugee Assistance Act of 1962. If you believe those acts should be repealed or amended I suggest writing your Congressman and Senator. It does not matter if they crossed the border illegally, once they were granted asylum they were here legally. They were here legally when DeSantis had them lured to Florida, and then to Mass through means of false promises. And that, just might be, an actual federal crime.