Derren Brown's screaming stooges

silver birch said:
so derren brown has the same integrity as a professional wrestler.
at last,
THATS WHAT I'VE BEEN TRYING TO TELL YOU ALL ALONG,
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if more people had as much integrity as, for example, Bryan Danielson, the world would be a much much better place.
 
John Albert said:
I've been "hypnotized" lots of times, and that was not my experience at all. I was fully awake and aware the entire time, every time, and afterward I had normal recall of everything that happened during the "session."
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how much a hypnotized person remembers depends on the trance depth, which refers to the subconscious and conscious mind. do you remember all of the deams you have?
I've experienced both hypnotherapy, where I remembered everything quite clearly, and somnambulism, which is very different, and I remembered nothing mostly, or just fragments sometimes.
you may be one of the 90% who cannot reach somnambulism.

www.hypnosisforyou.com/bynum.html
 
silver birch said:
how much a hypnotized person remembers depends on the trance depth, which refers to the subconscious and conscious mind. do you remember all of the deams you have?
I've experienced both hypnotherapy, where I remembered everything quite clearly, and somnambulism, which is very different, and I remembered nothing mostly, or just fragments sometimes.
you may be one of the 90% who cannot reach somnambulism.

www.hypnosisforyou.com/bynum.html
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But can you explain why you're upset that a stage magician acted like a stage magician when performing stage magic? And are you equally upset by any other magicians? David Blaine claims to have genuine magical abilities, as does Criss Angel.
 
silver birch said:
how much a hypnotized person remembers depends on the trance depth, which refers to the subconscious and conscious mind. do you remember all of the deams you have?
I've experienced both hypnotherapy, where I remembered everything quite clearly, and somnambulism, which is very different, and I remembered nothing mostly, or just fragments sometimes.
you may be one of the 90% who cannot reach somnambulism.

www.hypnosisforyou.com/bynum.html
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The Bynum scale, as in THIS Therial Bynum?

http://www.quackwatch.org/11Ind/echols.html
 
Squeegee Beckenheim said:
I'd say that that's disputed at best.



A professional wrestler or, say, a stage magician. So we're back to you being upset that a stage magician acts like a stage magician when performing stage magic.

What I'd like you to do is to explain why.
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is he a magician? does he even call himself that? I thought he is a mentalist, whatever that means. I've heard of him called several things. nevertheless, in some of his stunts, including the casino, he actually claims to use authentic hypnosis, and I'm saying it is fake.
none of the real stage magicians call their shows, magic shows, because they know stage hypnotism has nothing to do with magic shows.
 
silver birch said:
is he a magician? does he even call himself that? I thought he is a mentalist, whatever that means. I've heard of him called several things. nevertheless, in some of his stunts, including the casino, he actually claims to use authentic hypnosis, and I'm saying it is fake.
none of the real stage magicians call their shows, magic shows, because they know stage hypnotism has nothing to do with magic shows.
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Not A True Magician then?
 
silver birch said:
is he a magician? does he even call himself that? I thought he is a mentalist, whatever that means. I've heard of him called several things. nevertheless, in some of his stunts, including the casino, he actually claims to use authentic hypnosis, and I'm saying it is fake.
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From his own website:
Dubbed a ‘psychological illusionist’ by the Press, Derren Brown is a performer who combines magic, suggestion, psychology, misdirection and showmanship in order to seemingly predict and control human behaviour, as well as performing mind-bending feats of mentalism.
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http://derrenbrown.co.uk/about-derren/

I'd say that's pretty accurate, wouldn't you?

silver birch said:
none of the real stage magicians call their shows, magic shows, because they know stage hypnotism has nothing to do with magic shows.
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What?
 
silver birch said:
sorry, I made a typing error, I meant stage hypnotists.
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in that case you're just mundanely wrong rather than bewilderingly wrong. There are a huge amount of entertainers who advertise themselves as magicians and hypnotists. The Amazing Kreskin, for example.
 
AdMan said:
From his own website:


http://derrenbrown.co.uk/about-derren/

I'd say that's pretty accurate, wouldn't you?



What?
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I clicked on that link and there is mentioned DB's svengali tour. obviously svengali refers to the well known novel about the hypnotist svengali and his subject, trilby.
not so well known is where the author gained his inspiration for the novel.
from a book entitled, Secret, don't tell, The enclyclopedia of hypnotism by Carla Emery. page 1-
the novel trilby, published in 1894 introduced the basic sordid facts of hypnotic exploitation to a mass readership. by the vehicle of fiction, it presented important facts about abusive hypnosis. Dumaurier's tale of poor trilby stimulated a much needed public awareness and discussion of unethical hypnosis.
an Englishman, with a french name, George Du maurier, wrote his last and most famous novel, Trilby, about hypnocontrol.
Du maurier got the idea for his tale of Svengali's cruel domination of his hapless hypnotic subject from viewing a demonstration of a subject's complete amnesic, dissociation in a hypnotist's office. the young female whose hypnotic submission was demonstrated to Du maurier was an unknowing, chronic, hypnotic subject, an artificially-split personality. the novelist watched her be hypnotized, made to obey commands under trance, then awakened. he saw her obedience to post-hypnotic commands and her rationalization of them as freewilled choices. he observed her total unawareness of her previous trance state.
 
Lamuella said:
in that case you're just mundanely wrong rather than bewilderingly wrong. There are a huge amount of entertainers who advertise themselves as magicians and hypnotists. The Amazing Kreskin, for example.
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we all make mistakes, this is why pencils have erasers on the end.
no genuine hypnotist would mix hypnotism with a magic show.
 
silver birch said:
I clicked on that link and there is mentioned DB's svengali tour. obviously svengali refers to the well known novel about the hypnotist svengali and his subject, trilby.
not so well known is where the author gained his inspiration for the novel.
from a book entitled, Secret, don't tell, The enclyclopedia of hypnotism by Carla Emery. page 1-
the novel trilby, published in 1894 introduced the basic sordid facts of hypnotic exploitation to a mass readership. by the vehicle of fiction, it presented important facts about abusive hypnosis. Dumaurier's tale of poor trilby stimulated a much needed public awareness and discussion of unethical hypnosis.
an Englishman, with a french name, George Du maurier, wrote his last and most famous novel, Trilby, about hypnocontrol.
Du maurier got the idea for his tale of Svengali's cruel domination of his hapless hypnotic subject from viewing a demonstration of a subject's complete amnesic, dissociation in a hypnotist's office. the young female whose hypnotic submission was demonstrated to Du maurier was an unknowing, chronic, hypnotic subject, an artificially-split personality. the novelist watched her be hypnotized, made to obey commands under trance, then awakened. he saw her obedience to post-hypnotic commands and her rationalization of them as freewilled choices. he observed her total unawareness of her previous trance state.
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So what's your point?

I'm not familiar with the details of the show, but "Svengali" just seems to me like a creative title they came up with--as with "Enigma" or "Something Wicked This Way Comes"--two earlier shows. I think you are reading too much into the word.
 
silver birch said:
is he a magician?
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Yes.

does he even call himself that?
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Yes.

I thought he is a mentalist, whatever that means.
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Mentalism is a particular type of stage magic.

nevertheless, in some of his stunts, including the casino, he actually claims to use authentic hypnosis, and I'm saying it is fake.
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In one of his stunts David Copperfield actually claimed to make the Statue of Liberty disappear, and I'm saying it was fake.

Again, why are you upset at a stage magician acting like a stage magician while performing stage magic?

none of the real stage magicians call their shows, magic shows, because they know stage hypnotism has nothing to do with magic shows.
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I'm not even sure what that sentence is supposed to mean. If it's your assertion that no magician other than Derren Brown has claimed to use hypnosis, then all I can conclude is that you've seen very little stage magic.
 
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