Derren Brown's screaming stooges

[Bram Kaandorp]

Derren Brown and the Screaming Stooges...

I always assumed magicians's acts were about a willing suspension of disbelief on the side of participants and viewers to enjoy a feeling as if it were real?

Something like that.

However, that still leaves the question of how it was done.

It might be easy to make an elephant disappear by telling the audience that there's a big pile of cash behind them, and whilst everyone looks away, carting the elephant off-stage (not really, but on a smaller scale it might be), but to do it whilst the audience is looking takes skill.

Therefore, to know whether or not Derren uses stooges is to know how much skill was involved.

Not that I'd really think less of him as a person for using stooges, but it would mean that he's less impressive as a mentalist.

 

[fuelair]

I can start a derren brown is fake thread as often as I like on this forum. and the reason I have claimed this so far is because, knowing hypnotism is real, having been hypnotized for real myself, it sickens me to watch the con-artist making money by conning gullible people by using stooges faking it.
by calling me a CT truther, I suppose you are referring to the 9/11 truth movement, in which case it should be discussed on a 9/11 thread, as it has no relevence to this one.
channel 4 have not blocked all his shows on you tube in the UK as you can see by the link I have posted for the seance on this thread.

You can always start a thread here. Doesn't require anyone to agree with you, read what you wrote, go to places you wish us to go or agree with what you write - though providing evidence would help towards that. (A canceled check showing the actress was paid... same for the guy you mentioned in the hypnotism thing. That you observe something is fine, that you make assumptions from what you see is also fine. BUT it is not fine if you choose to get upset when any/all of us do not agree with your contention that what you have seen constitutes proof of something beyond what is there and visible.

 

[silver birch]

I'm not the only one who believe he uses stooges, what about the fake russian roulette stunt?
I always get upset when I see a snake oil salesman conning gullible people.

www.guardian.co.uk/science/2003/oct/09/thisweekssciencequestions3

 

[Sledge]

What is Derren Brown selling?

 

[Squeegee Beckenheim]

I'm not the only one who believe he uses stooges, what about the fake russian roulette stunt?
I always get upset when I see a snake oil salesman conning gullible people.

www.guardian.co.uk/science/2003/oct/09/thisweekssciencequestions3

You do realise that Derren Brown has stated in interview that the Russian Roulette thing was a trick, don't you? So, really, all your post is saying is "magician's trick that magician says was a trick was a trick". You'll forgive me if I don't keel over in surprise or outrage.

And even if he hadn't said it, I'm unsure what I'm supposed to take away from it. A magician did a magic trick. That, as I understand it, kind of goes with the job description.

 

[Azrael 5]

I'm not the only one who believe he uses stooges, what about the fake russian roulette stunt?
I always get upset when I see a snake oil salesman conning gullible people.

www.guardian.co.uk/science/2003/oct/09/thisweekssciencequestions3

First line of the article.

Sorry to ruin it for you, but the odds are that it was just a magic trick.

Who is he conning? Does Paul Daniels con people? Criss Angel? Ali Bongo?(not anymore he's dead but point remains.)

For any lurkers unfamiliar with John Albert's delusions please see other Derren thread where all his lies are recorded for posterity (my last word on him)

 

[Information Analyst]

channel 4 have not blocked all his shows on you tube in the UK as you can see by the link I have posted for the seance on this thread.

The seance link is to 4OD, which is Channel 4's own streaming channel. The links they block are those that aren't.

 

[silver birch]

You do realise that Derren Brown has stated in interview that the Russian Roulette thing was a trick, don't you? So, really, all your post is saying is "magician's trick that magician says was a trick was a trick". You'll forgive me if I don't keel over in surprise or outrage.

And even if he hadn't said it, I'm unsure what I'm supposed to take away from it. A magician did a magic trick. That, as I understand it, kind of goes with the job description.

DB stated a live round was put in the gun, but it was not.

 

[Lamuella]

Guys, I just found out that WWE wrestlers aren't really fighting each other!

 

[Squeegee Beckenheim]

DB stated a live round was put in the gun, but it was not.

David Copperfield said that he had made the Statue of Liberty disappear, but he didn't really.

I'm still unsure as to why you're surprised that a magic trick has turned out to be a magic trick, or what kind of reaction you're expecting from others by pointing out that said magic trick was a magic trick.

 

[silver birch]

First line of the article.


Who is he conning? Does Paul Daniels con people? Criss Angel? Ali Bongo?(not anymore he's dead but point remains.)

For any lurkers unfamiliar with John Albert's delusions please see other Derren thread where all his lies are recorded for posterity (my last word on him)

in the casino stunt he was conning people by saying he had hypnotized ben into a full somnambulist trance. hypnotism is not a magic trick, it is a genuine altered state of consciousness.
it would not have been possible for a hypnotist to place someone at the first attempt to that trance depth in just a few seconds so that he could follow those instructions, which would have also meant making his own independent decisions subconsciously. only about 1 in 10 people can reach that depth of trance anyway, which would have taken very much longer than that, using what a hypnotist calls deepeners.
this is apart from the fact that could anyone withdraw £5,000 from their bank without making prior arrangements?
he could not have done it through the ATM, would he always have his chequebook on him? and if he did have his chequebook would the cashier allow him to withdraw that amount?
then, according to DB's fairy story he does not even realize £5,000 is gone from his account, if it was his current account there almost certainly would not have been enough left to cover direct debits, in which case his bank would have notified him.
so it is a complete surprise to him when DB informs by phone one evening, when he just happens to be standing in a brightly window with no curtains for the camera crew.


just grow up.

 

[Stray Cat]

just grow up.

I know, I've lost track of the amount of times my deceiving, charlatan parents conned me with stories of fairies that give you money for your milk teeth and a fat guy in a red outfit that comes down the chimney and gives presents to everyone in the world.

I feel so let down.

Then when I found out that Small Daniels couldn't really saw a woman in half (heck he can't even even saw a piece of wood without cutting his own fingers off), it just drove me to despair!

 

[Lamuella]

OK, quick straw poll:

How many people posting in this thread are genuinely shocked by the revelation that Derren Brown isn't doing the things he claims to be doing in his show?

EDIT: it might be worthwhile to quote Derren Brown's own words on the subject:

http://derrenbrown.co.uk/blog/2011/11/claim-claim-2/

To Claim or Not to Claim
Posted in DB Direct, Misdirection, Deception and Magic, Popular

Posted by Derren November 4, 2011 at 11:27 am



Every now and then I have a conversation with someone who has seen a couple of my shows, but hasn’t read my books or writings, and believes I claim to do all sorts of things that I really don’t. As I had such a discussion last night, and as I’ve been talking about the importance of testing psychic claims that could be fraudulent, I thought I would clarify a few points regarding my own work for anyone in any doubt.

Firstly, regarding the ‘tricks’ as performed in the older shows:

1. I have never used stooges. People generally imagine I must do if they can find no other explanation. But I don’t: it would be artistically repugnant, totally unnecessary, impractical, and would spell career suicide.

2. My techniques are rooted in conjuring magic and hypnosis. All else is most likely misdirection and should be taken with a hefty pinch of salt.

3. I have never claimed to use NLP to achieve my ‘tricks’. On the contrary, I have written very critically about it in Tricks of the Mind. I reserve the same scepticism for subliminal messaging, as well as a lot of body-language reading and the like.

Now, I have largely moved on from performing those sorts of tricks. So, as regards the specials, such as The Experiments and others:

1. Again, the people used are never stooges or set up in any way. They generally apply through an open audition process, whereby we meet or interview them and look at various qualities they possess which would be useful (for example their jobs, beliefs, or how suggestible they are).

2. The contributors are always psychologically screened if they are going to go through a ‘tough’ experience. Without giving away what the show is, or giving them any clue that they will be used in it, we arrange for our preferred participants to have interviews with an independent psychologist who ensures that they will be ‘robust’ enough for the show. This is an important part of our duty of care, which we take very seriously throughout the entire process of making the programmes. And the ‘heroes’ of these specials always emerge exhilarated and delighted to have been part of it.

3. If I make a statement on these shows, it will be true. Nowadays, the Channel 4 lawyers check every word to make sure there is no misleading of the viewer: this is a huge issue in the TV industry at the moment. The joke in the office is that a magician can’t even say ‘this is a normal deck of cards’ on TV nowadays if it isn’t, and I don’t think that’s an exaggeration.

 

[Squeegee Beckenheim]

in the casino stunt he was conning people by saying he had hypnotized ben into a full somnambulist trance. hypnotism is not a magic trick, it is a genuine altered state of consciousness.
it would not have been possible for a hypnotist to place someone at the first attempt to that trance depth in just a few seconds so that he could follow those instructions, which would have also meant making his own independent decisions subconsciously. only about 1 in 10 people can reach that depth of trance anyway, which would have taken very much longer than that, using what a hypnotist calls deepeners.
this is apart from the fact that could anyone withdraw £5,000 from their bank without making prior arrangements?
he could not have done it through the ATM, would he always have his chequebook on him? and if he did have his chequebook would the cashier allow him to withdraw that amount?
then, according to DB's fairy story he does not even realize £5,000 is gone from his account, if it was his current account there almost certainly would not have been enough left to cover direct debits, in which case his bank would have notified him.
so it is a complete surprise to him when DB informs by phone one evening, when he just happens to be standing in a brightly window with no curtains for the camera crew.


just grow up.

Again, you've just described how a magic trick was, in fact, a magic trick. I still can't understand why you think this is a terrible thing.

 

[Hitch]

Guys, I just found out that WWE wrestlers aren't really fighting each other!

"It's still real to me!" *sob*

Apologies to anyone who doesn't recognize that. But for the rest of us, I think it's an accurate portrayal of those in this thread (and others) who can't quite get over the fact that a stage magician's patter is sometimes misleading.

 

[silver birch]

Again, you've just described how a magic trick was, in fact, a magic trick. I still can't understand why you think this is a terrible thing.

I've done no such thing. hypnotism is not a magic trick, it is a genuine altered state of consciousness. if DB claims to have put ben in this state when ben is faking, then both of them are being dishonest.
take hypnotherapy, then, although the results are different to stage hypnotism the principle of accessing a persons subconscious is the same.
if someone visits a hypnotherapist for some traumatic event in their life and pays him $100 an hour he doesn't expect magic, he expects genuine hypnosis.
perhaps the only way to understand hypnotism is to become hypnotized.
another way to look at it is by the original meaning of the word somnambulism, from the greek somn- sleep, and ambul- walk. someone who walks and carries out activities while still asleep. someone like this might get up in the night, go down and raid the fridge and have no memory of it the next morning.
an early name for hypnotism was artificial somnambulism because of the resemblence to a natural somnambulist, but of course it is easy to fake.

 

[silver birch]

"It's still real to me!" *sob*

Apologies to anyone who doesn't recognize that. But for the rest of us, I think it's an accurate portrayal of those in this thread (and others) who can't quite get over the fact that a stage magician's patter is sometimes misleading.

so derren brown has the same integrity as a professional wrestler.
at last,
THATS WHAT I'VE BEEN TRYING TO TELL YOU ALL ALONG,

 

[Stray Cat]

if someone visits a hypnotherapist for some traumatic event in their life and pays him $100 an hour he doesn't expect magic, he expects genuine hypnosis.

And by extension, if someone watches a magician, they would expect to see a magic trick and not some silly hypnotist clap trap.

perhaps the only way to understand hypnotism is to become hypnotized.
another way to look at it is by the original meaning of the word somnambulism, from the greek somn- sleep, and ambul- walk. someone who walks and carries out activities while still asleep. someone like this might get up in the night, go down and raid the fridge and have no memory of it the next morning.
an early name for hypnotism was artificial somnambulism because of the resemblence to a natural somnambulist, but of course it is easy to fake.

Ah, now I see, you're a hypnotist (or hynotherapist even) and you're taking offense at Derren bringing your clap trap nonsense into disrepute?

 

[Squeegee Beckenheim]

I've done no such thing. hypnotism is not a magic trick, it is a genuine altered state of consciousness.

I'd say that that's disputed at best.

so derren brown has the same integrity as a professional wrestler.
at last,
THATS WHAT I'VE BEEN TRYING TO TELL YOU ALL ALONG,

A professional wrestler or, say, a stage magician. So we're back to you being upset that a stage magician acts like a stage magician when performing stage magic.

What I'd like you to do is to explain why.

 

[John Albert]

perhaps the only way to understand hypnotism is to become hypnotized.
another way to look at it is by the original meaning of the word somnambulism, from the greek somn- sleep, and ambul- walk. someone who walks and carries out activities while still asleep. someone like this might get up in the night, go down and raid the fridge and have no memory of it the next morning.
an early name for hypnotism was artificial somnambulism because of the resemblence to a natural somnambulist, but of course it is easy to fake.

I've been "hypnotized" lots of times, and that was not my experience at all. I was fully awake and aware the entire time, every time, and afterward I had normal recall of everything that happened during the "session."