Deos Timmy Go To Hell?

[GrnMtSkeptic]

"invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen"

 

[Beleth]

Given the presumption that those who die in childhood automatically "go to heaven" under these dogmas, hasn't it ever occured to anyone that the ideal Christian is one who proceeds to execute as many innocent children as possible, thus sparing them the infinitely dangerous possibility of going to hell? Said mass murderer can, of course, later repent for his sins, so everybody wins.

I've had that same thought.

I think it boils down to that, even if the killer thinks that that will send many souls to Heaven, it will certainly not send the killer to Heaven, and since he knows that it is a definite sin, it's not worth doing. It's the supreme act of martyrdom - damning oneself so that many others will be saved - but the whole point of martyrdom is to get your reward after you die. When you know you won't be getting that reward, well, the incentive just isn't there any more.

The killer can't count on repenting for his sins later, since he doesn't know when he himself is going to die. And it just doesn't cut it to kill one, repent, kill another, repent again, lather rinse repeat. Killing after repenting for murder just shows that the repenting isn't doing any good.

I just wonder why there hasn't ever been a philosophical Christian murderer operating on that premise. It seems watertight to me.

Ehh, the world hasn't ended yet. There's still plenty of time for this clear form of psychopathy to surface.

 

[Marquis de Carabas]

And perhaps I'm being too pedantic (though having grown up in an area largely populated with Southern Baptists I tended to get that way toward their doctrines) but if the test had been if one understands the concepts of punishment and forgiveness I wouldn't have spoken up. The part I've never really understood is the whole "Hell" and "Jesus saves" rigamarole.

Well, then, we'll just toss back a few beers and call it good.

...and speaking of things hard to understand, meet Richard G.

 

[Kopji]

Fortunately there are plenty of mentally ill martyrs you could ask to intercede for you.

http://www.catholic-forum.com/saints/saintb17.htm

BIBIANA (aka Vivian)

Her parents, Flavian and Dafrosa, were martyred in the persecution of Julian the Apostate, and Vivian and her sister Demetria were turned over to a woman named Rufina who tried to force her into prostitution. Upon her continued refusal, Vivian was imprisoned in a mad house, then flogged to death.

A church was built over her grave, in the garden of which grew an herb that cured headache and epilepsy. This and her time spent with the mentally ill led to her areas of patronage.

Born: in 4th century in Rome
Died: scourged to death c.361; her body was left to the dogs, but none would touch her, and she was buried two days later

Patronage:
diocese of Los Angeles California, epilepsy, epileptics, hangovers, headaches, insanity, mental illness, mentally ill people, single laywomen, torture victims

 

[Kopji]

http://www.catholic-forum.com/saints/pst00465.htm

Gallery of the Catholic patrons of the mentally ill.
Mostly very sad...

EUSTOCHIUM of Padua
Also known as
Lucrezia Bellini; Cinderella of the Cloister
Memorial 13 February

Profile
Daughter of a Paduan nun who had been seduced into ignoring her vow of chastity; she grew up in the convent. She felt a call to the religious life, which many of the sisters of opposed due to the scandal of her birth. The bishop approved of her vocation, however, and she entered her novitiate as a Benedictine nun in 1461, taking the name Eustochium.

For four years she suffered from violent, hysterical fits. She was considered to be possessed, imprisoned, fed on bread and water, periodically starved and repeatedly exorcised. When her abbess fell ill, she was accused of poisoning the woman, and had to be saved from a mob of townspeople who wanted to burn her as a demon. Between these bouts, she was gentle, pious, patient and humble, apparently seeing it all as a form of penance. Her confessor and spiritual guide insisted that she be allowed to continue with her vocation, and her sanctity won over many of the sisters who had opposed her.

She died very soon after her formal vows. The name of Jesus was found cauterized on her breast. She is venerated in Padua.

 

[Ossai]

AmateurScientist

I don't know. My Church of Christ friends won't openly so it, but they all believe that they are the only Real Christians.

I’ve got a friend that is ex-Church of Christ and she says that is what they teach. Anyone that isn’t a member of the Church of Christ is going to hell.

Neutiquam Erro

It's not generally regarded as a matter of "grasping the concept," so much as doing what you "know" is right, i.e. doing what your parents/preachers/Sunday school teachers taught you. Nothing so clearly shows the handiwork of the Devil as a desire to actually rationalize and understand these moral imperatives.

Basically: free will bad, mindless automaton good.

Ossai

 

[Doc Dish]

quote:

---

Originally posted by BPSCG

Back to South Park:

Hell Director: (on a stage near the entrance. on a microphone.) Hello, new-commers! Welcome! Can everybody hear me?! Hello! (taps his mic.) Can everybo...okay! Uh, I'm the Hell Director! Uh, It looks like we have about eight-thousand, six-hundred, and fifteen of you newbees today, and for those of you who were a little confused, uh, you ARE dead and this is Hell! So, abandon all hope and, uh, yadayadayada! Uh, we're now going to start the orientation process which will last about...

New Hellion #5: Hey, wait a minute! I shouldn't be here! I was a totally strict and devout Protestant! I thought we went to Heaven!

Hell Director: Yes, well, I'm afraid you were wrong!

New Hellion #6: I was a practicing Jehova's Witness!

Hell Director: Uh, you picked the wrong religion as well!

New Hellion #7: Well, who was right?! Who gets into Heaven?!

Hell Director: I'm afraid it was the Mormons! Yes! The Mormons were the correct answer!

New Hellions: AWW!

---

They so stole that from Rowan Atkinson's The Devil Sketch

 

[pgwenthold]

The part I've never really understood is the whole "Hell" and "Jesus saves" rigamarole.

Oh that's easy. It's a protection racket. Unless you pay your protection money to the Godfather, bad things will come to your business. Of course, those bad things are being done by the Godfather's man, Guido, but as long as you pay, you are fine.

Similarly, if you don't worship God, you end up in hell. Of course, it's God who sends you to hell in the first place, so you are just paying your protection money.

 

[Sandy M]

Well, 14 years of parochial school and pffft! it's almost all gone except for a few catechism responses... but I seem to recall being told that unbaptised babies went to "limbo" until the great Day of Judgment, etc., when they were translated into heaven. I won't swear to it, but that' s my recollection.

Same thing, I think, for those who have never heard of J.C. I believe it's called "invicible ignorance." But I think such uninformed heathens had to live a "good life," whatever that might mean. After all, if head hunting is part of your culture.... or polygamy......

 

[Kelvie]

The official answer is "Probably".

The two episodes were titled "Do the handicapped go to Hell?" and "Probably". South Park is quite an intelligent show ; behind all the immature jokes you can usually find clever satire.

 

[Beerina]

What's a "God" and what is meant by the "son of God"? What's "Hell" and how can this "son of God" excuse me from it? Does he give me a free "Get out of Hell" card so that no matter what I do I am excused from "Hell"?

A "God" is an infinitely powerful being. A "son of God" is the child of God and a normal, mortal woman. This son, technically a demigod, is also a God since infinity divided by two is still infinity.

Hell is deep down underground, presumably near the crust-mantle division where there may be some gaseous chambers and ledges where devils and demons can teas you after God throws you into the molten lava, although I suspect that you'd float on top, which would still be quite excruciating. Without being "saved" (excused from Hell) you will be resurrected at some future date into an indestructible body and then cast into one of these lava pools where your neural network brain will be fed excruciatingly agonizing input signals for all eternity. I suspect the brain, being adaptive, will eventually compensate, allowing a cruddy, if acceptable, level of existance, allowing people to claw their way up onto the nearly molten rocks, where they can overwhelm the devils and demons thru sheer force of numbers plus their indestructibility will work for them in that case.

Presumably this Hell will be transported to another planet in about 6-10 billion years when the sun blows up.

The "get out of Hell free" card you cannot save -- important tip! -- it's only good as long as you've just had an epiphanal moment recently and are striving to not sin anymore.

It is good, however, for all sins except the sin of running around saying what a load of steaming ******** this all is.

 

[GrnMtSkeptic]

It is good, however, for all sins except the sin of running around saying what a load of steaming ******** this all is.

I knew I was ed...

 

[richardm]

As I indicated initially, I am incapable of grasping the concept you put forward as punishment Y, what this agent Z is, and why Z can prevent Y.

This doesn't matter. You don't need to understand any of these things. The priests are here to understand them on your behalf, and reassure you that they are the case.

In fact, it's probably better all round if you don't try to understand them, because that might lead to awkward questions being asked, and hence force the priest or his bosses to illustrate your error by means of glowing tongs. Capice?