Dennis Hastert indicted.

[Trakar]

This is a fun video to watch: Slate: The Sex Scandals Surrounding Bill Clinton’s Sex Scandal

Good music too.

lots of sax and violins!

 

[12AX7]

lots of sax and violins!

I see what you did there.

 

[Monketi Ghost]

lots of sax and violins!

Joke of the day, give that man a cigar.
For his mouth.

 

[Trakar]

I see what you did there.

Hey, that's the big dog, tickling the plumbing and even pulling a little bit of sweet out from behind the shed, every now and again!

 

[Minoosh]

Yet people who should know better don't actually recognize that just because they are in a position of authority doesn't mean that it isn't necessarily abusive.

I can't work out this statement.

It's statutory rape for a teacher to have sex with a student.

Even if the student is 18?

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

... Even if the student is 18?

Hastert was a high school coach. It doesn't look like he only 'massaged' kids once they reached 18.

 

[Trakar]

Hastert was a high school coach. It doesn't look like he only 'massaged' kids once they reached 18.

In at least one case the attention was said to last all four years of high school. That would mean that molestation was initiated when the victim was ~14.

 

[Arcade22]

It's statutory rape for a teacher to have sex with a student.

And if a law says something that makes it so? A teacher having consensual sex with their student is actually completely impossible because the law doesn't acknowledge said consent?

 

[Molinaro]

And if a law says something that makes it so? A teacher having consensual sex with their student is actually completely impossible because the law doesn't acknowledge said consent?

It is still a crime, and the crime has a name: statutory rape.

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

And if a law says something that makes it so? A teacher having consensual sex with their student is actually completely impossible because the law doesn't acknowledge said consent?

What makes you think the law is all I'm going by here?

In this case, a coach molesting a kid all through high school, YES, that is statutory rape and all kinds of creepy.

If an 18 yr old high school senior has sex with a sixteen yr old high school Jr or Sophomore, not so much (despite the fact many people here disagree).

Are you defending Hastert's actions, calling it consensual? How do you know how consensual vs manipulative it actually was?

 

[Meadmaker]

Are you defending Hastert's actions, calling it consensual? How do you know how consensual vs manipulative it actually was?

I think his point is that "consensual" and "manipulative" are not antonyms. A sexual act can be both.

Under the law, a minor* cannot give consent to sex. However, in reality, minors can and do give consent to sex. They desire sex. They initiate sex. The go along with sex. They can be manipulated by adults into giving consent for sex, and they can manipulate adults into having sex with them. They do all sorts of sexual things, all of which are consensual. The law doesn't recognize the validity of the consent, but it is still consensual.

For the record, I certainly am not defending Hastert's actions. I doubt Arcade22 is, either. I, for one, am perfectly happy with it being illegal for an adult to have sex with a 15 year old, regardless of the 15 year old's consent.



Reading about this case, I must agree that I find it truly sickening. The acts themselves are bad, but I wouldn't go quite so far as to call the acts sickening.** The hypocrisy, however, is really disgusting to me. The fact that he could lead the charge against Clinton so sanctimoniously, all the while with this in his past, is just incredible.


*Definitions of "minor" vary based on location and circumstance.
** Depending on exactly what really happened.

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

I think his point is that "consensual" and "manipulative" are not antonyms. A sexual act can be both.

Under the law, a minor* cannot give consent to sex. However, in reality, minors can and do give consent to sex. ....

You guys are contorting the exchange.

I wonder if he stopped raping boys when he left the high school? Somehow I doubt it.

... Where exactly has someone accused him of rape?

It's statutory rape for a teacher to have sex with a student. If you are nitpicking there was only mutual masturbation and no anal penetration, that's a weak argument against statutory rape.

... Even if the student is 18?

The question being addressed was, had Hastert been accused of rape?

The question was not, debate the morality of a teacher having consensual sex with a student.

 

[Arcade22]

It is still a crime, and the crime has a name: statutory rape.

That's not what benburch said. He said rape not "statutory rape" and when people say rape i assume they mean rape.

But hey who cares since there's apparently no difference between actually raping someone and having consensual sex with them if they are under the age of 18? It's all the same really, at least in America.

 

[Arcade22]

What makes you think the law is all I'm going by here?

Because that's the only thing you mentioned when i asked?

In this case, a coach molesting a kid all through high school, YES, that is statutory rape and all kinds of creepy.

I have read this thread and the links posted in it and i haven't seen any reliable article that said he was "molesting a kid all through high school". The closest thing I've read was that he "sexually abused" someone, which evidently includes any and all sexual acts and relationships whatsoever.

So what reliable information made you come to the conclusion that he was "molesting a kid all through high school"?

Are you defending Hastert's actions, calling it consensual?

No? Considering the near complete lack of details and specifics in the news articles that i have read i actually know very little about what he actually did other than that it likely happened over an extended period of time and could be termed as "sexual abuse".

Yet again this very idiotic definition of "sexual abuse" includes any and all sexual acts and relationships whatsoever ranging from violent rape to consensual intercourse.

How do you know how consensual vs manipulative it actually was?

Again: I don't know. I thought i made that clear a couple of posts ago. Despite my ignorance i see people in this thread who apparently already know that, not only did he "sexually abuse" someone, he specifically "raped" them. You seem to know just how abusive it was so why don't you go ahead and tell me?

 

[BenBurch]

If the victim was not legally able to consent, it is rape. Just like it is when consent is coerced.

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

Hastert has been accused of rape.

It's a simple claim backed by the discussion of his alleged crime as reported by the sister of one of the victims.

That is the extent of the discussion I entered into.

You all can have the broader debate about what is or isn't consent, and what is or isn't rape, and if one defines statutory rape based solely on the fact the law recognizes it or if one actually agrees with the law for reasons other than just the fact it is a law. I'm not biting that one.

 

[hgc]

What makes you think the law is all I'm going by here?

In this case, a coach molesting a kid all through high school, YES, that is statutory rape and all kinds of creepy.

These two statements, in succession, are pretty funny.

 

[a_unique_person]

And if a law says something that makes it so? A teacher having consensual sex with their student is actually completely impossible because the law doesn't acknowledge said consent?

Yes. That's the law in Western countries. Students get a crush on a teacher, teacher gets to take advantage of them.

 

[Arcade22]

If the victim was not legally able to consent, it is rape. Just like it is when consent is coerced.

Right. Laws determine not only what is and isn't legal they also determine reality itself. Then we come back to the point i made earlier:

The same people would almost certainly have no calms about describing any gay sex as "a crime against nature and god" with a good conscience were it criminalized as such.

Now comes the pathetic double standards of how it's "completely different"...

 

[Arcade22]

Hastert has been accused of rape.

Yes you and benburch are accusing him in this thread right now despite refusing the give any evidence to back up the allegations.

It's a simple claim backed by the discussion of his alleged crime as reported by the sister of one of the victims.

Where exactly did she accuse him of raping her brother? I've read the articles posted in this thread and the article only said:

But she also said she believed that relationship had caused irreparable harm.

"He damaged Steve, I think, more than any of us will ever know," she told the morning show.

No actual accusation of rape or even sexual abuse only that the "relationship caused irreparable harm". For all i know her perception of said relationship is highly inaccurate. Considering that the victim is dead and barring any written testimony they left i don't exactly trust her recollection.

You all can have the broader debate about what is or isn't consent, and what is or isn't rape, and if one defines statutory rape based solely on the fact the law recognizes it or if one actually agrees with the law for reasons other than just the fact it is a law. I'm not biting that one.

So you can't actually defend your beliefs at all and refuse to justify them. Nice.

Yes. That's the law in Western countries.

Well i guess Sweden isn't included among western countries then...