Democrats vote on November 5!

[Lonewulf]

Fine Lonewulf, I take it back and apologize for misinterpreting what you said. My bad.

OK?

OK.

Seriously, okay. Thank you for that.

And I'm sorry for not looking carefully at who you were quoting. I was a bit egotistical and assumed you were quoting me, for whatever reason, and didn't actually view who you were talking to. I should have been more careful.

Getting back to the thread in question...

While in YHO, this was a joke pulled around the office, there was a case cited where papers were spread around to people in certain neighborhoods, with papers that stated very clearly (and falsely) that police would be there to pick up anyone with too many parking tickets or similar offenses. This demonstrates evidence, to my mind, that there are some individuals (and unlike dudalb's obsession with the GOP, I'm not claiming it's anyone other than a few individuals, and I purport no conspiracy) who ARE willing to commit fraud to keep people from voting.

This paper in question is different than the fake papers you cite, as those are on obvious satire websites, and further show evidence of satire. Such as being able to checkmark "sand *******" and similar for your ethnicity.

This flier in question was created in its entirety to look as official as humanly possible, without even a hint of satire.

 

[WildCat]

This paper in question is different than the fake papers you cite, as those are on obvious satire websites, and further show evidence of satire. Such as being able to checkmark "sand *******" and similar for your ethnicity.

This flier in question was created in its entirety to look as official as humanly possible, without even a hint of satire.

I think the logo to the right of the Virginia state seal was a dead giveaway, a caricature of a politician in the "Tricky Dick" pose. And the text itself is so ridiculous on its face (even if you're unfamiliar with the joke) no reasonable person could think it was real.

IMHO, of course.

And evidence that this is an old joke, here's a thread on a message board from 3 weeks ago telling Republicans to vote on Nov. 5, dems on the 4th: http://www.city-data.com/forum/2008...-democrats-republicans-who-will-you-vote.html

 

[Lonewulf]

I think the logo to the right of the Virginia state seal was a dead giveaway, a caricature of a politician in the "Tricky Dick" pose. And the text itself is so ridiculous on its face (even if you're unfamiliar with the joke) no reasonable person could think it was real.

Wait, what about the text is so ridiculous? I spot a couple of typos and the last line seems suspiciously like it was an attempt at satire (but it could be mistaken as something else), but I don't see anything so incredibly ridiculous?

IMHO, of course.

Of course, and in mine as well. I guess the logo might be a "giveaway", but I'm not sure about a "dead giveaway"... there really are people in the U.S. that aren't very much educated in politics. I've ran into people that don't even know what a communist is.

And evidence that this is an old joke, here's a thread on a message board from 3 weeks ago telling Republicans to vote on Nov. 5, dems on the 4th: http://www.city-data.com/forum/2008-...-you-vote.html

I don't need that evidence that it's an old joke, though. I'm well aware. But it is possible to not hear of a joke before, no matter how old it is. There are many out there that aren't in contact with those that make such jokes, and there are many out there who aren't quite involved in any kind of political discussions enough to miss out on it.

 

[WildCat]

More evidences that this hoax dates back to at least 2000: http://urbanlegends.about.com/od/government/a/voting_day.htm

eta: and here: http://www.snopes.com/politics/humor/voting.asp

 

[Lonewulf]

And for 8 years, I managed to not hear about it, and I've been around on the internet for quite a while. Not really been so interested in politics until recently, though.

Also, just because it's been around for a while, doesn't mean that there cannot be anyone around who might want to turn it into a legitimate attempt to fool people.

Just because Randi faked a dollar bill for a magic show, doesn't mean that everyone who forges money are doing magic shows.

 

[Boo]

More evidences that this hoax dates back to at least 2000: http://urbanlegends.about.com/od/government/a/voting_day.htm

eta: and here: http://www.snopes.com/politics/humor/voting.asp

From the above site:

Despite some controversy over the issue of whether these emails were sent out as a prank or were part of a serious plot to defraud potential voters, officials in California where the messages were first sighted were quick to debunk their contents.

If caught, the perpetrator(s) could be charged with felony voter fraud, punishable by up to three years in prison.

Commenting on the earliest version of the message, which targeted Democrats, a Republican Party official said he first took it to be a joke, adding that it could be "very serious" if people believed it to be true.

So it's a "joke" that wasn't perceived as funny 8 years ago and was illegal then as well.

But hey, if somebody is that stupid, ignorant, mis-informand, illiterate or gullible they shouldn't be voting regardless. Right? Guess the joke is on them for falling what is such an obvious piece of well crafted satire.

I mean, nobody really thinks Colbert is a hard core Conservative, either.




Boo

 

[Meadmaker]

Wait, what about the text is so ridiculous?

In addition to the things you mentioned about the logo and about the last line, there is also the allusion to Republicans voting "as precribed (sic) by law", while Democrats use some other procedure. Finally, there's the blatantly unconstitutional elements of the instructions themselves.

Of course, and in mine as well. I guess the logo might be a "giveaway", but I'm not sure about a "dead giveaway"... there really are people in the U.S. that aren't very much educated in politics. I've ran into people that don't even know what a communist is.

I don't need that evidence that it's an old joke, though. I'm well aware. But it is possible to not hear of a joke before, no matter how old it is.

Let's review. We have textual inaccuracies that tend to play toward partisan stereotypes. (Republicans follow the law, while Democrats break it out of concern for fairness.) We have logos that look like parodies. We have poor grammar and spelling. We have recycling of an old joke.

So, with that in mind, let's compare the "joke" hypothesis to the "deliberate disenfranchisement" hypothesis. To believe it was a joke, we have to picture someone typing a document that requires less work than many forum posts, playing off partisan stereotypes, and poking fun at the possibility someone might be stupid enough to believe it. To believe it was deliberate disenfranchisment, we have to believe that someone recycled an old joke, but decided that with some sprucing up it could actually work. They put minimal effort into making it look official, but presented ideas that would only catch a very, very, small number of people, specifically, those who "aren't very much educated in politics."

In the absence of further evidence, I suppose we cannot definitively say which one it is, but I know which theory sounds more plausible to me.

 

[ImaginalDisc]

In the absence of further evidence, I suppose we cannot definitively say which one it is, but I know which theory sounds more plausible to me.

Perhaps you fail to understand the situation. It is a joke which is voter disenfranchisement and the originator of this rubbish could easily face criminal charges.

It's a bit like disseminating a "joke" flier saying that there will be police officers outside polling places to arrest anyone with outstanding traffic tickets both rumors which are going around this time. The effect is to delude some people into giving up their right to vote, regardless of its intent.

If you yelled "fire" in a crowded theater as a joke, you'd be facing charges regardless of what a knee slapper you thought it was.

 

[gdnp]

Just because Randi faked a dollar bill for a magic show, doesn't mean that everyone who forges money are doing magic shows.

Nor does it mean that everyone with a $3 bill with Dubya's picture on it is trying to commit fraud.

There is a fine line to satire. You have to be convincing enough that people hve to think about whether it is real or not, but absurd enough that it is funny. In this case there are several clues that this is satire:

1) the logo top right with the politician in Dick Nixon pose
2) the "Republican party supporters and independents supporting republican candidates" being lumped together
3) the date of the democratic voting after election day
4) the use of the word "electorial." Three times. It's "electoral".
5) the clumsy phraseology: "Due to the larger than expected voter turnout in this years (sic) electorial (sic) process". How about a verb? How can you expect a "larger than expected" turnout? Wouldn't "A larger than normal turnout is expected in this year's Presidential election" be more typical of a real government press release?

The last line ("we are sorry for any inconvenience this may cause but felt this was the only way to ensure fairness to the complete electorial (sic) process") is equally bad. Governments do a lot of things, but feeling is not one of them.
6) the misspelling of the words "follwing" and "precribed".

All these factors point to a clumsy joke, not a true effort to influence the election. If one truly wished to forge an official Virginia state document a much better job could have been done.

The Canadian jokesters who prank called Palin had a similar fine line to draw. They needed to be serious enough to be convincing, but absurd enough to make her look foolish for falling for it. I thought they were too convincing to make her look that foolish. The people who made this flier should also have telegraphed the joke better so that 99.9% would have gotten the joke rather than 98%

ETA: and what Meadmaker said, above. The risk of crafting a long post is that you get scooped by someone who says much the same thing more concisely.

 

[Lonewulf]

So, we have evidence that this was either an attempt at satire, or a massively incompetent forgery.

Sorry, but I can't cross incompetence off the list. There's plenty of those that are quite incompetent.

I admit that there is a case being made here. But I don't think that this "joke" should go unpunished, myself.

 

[shadron]

It's the same sort of humor that tells a stewardess in a crowded flight to Chicago that there is a bomb in your briefcase that you'll use if you don't get a window seat, and deserves approximately the same amount of attention.

You can picture a handful of bored Republican activists designing this thing, looking on the web for the proper seals and such, and telling themselves its all just a prank ... and maybe just a few will even fall for it... And then a little later, it's "if it works, it works, and if it doesn't, well then we'll just brush it off as a joke".

Likewise, I wouldn't put it past a bunch of bored Democratic activists either, but you can see here the form that it did actually take. As a Democrat (mostly), I'd squirm some if it had come out aimed at Republicans, feeling some vicarious embarrassment and likewise try to brush it off, I imagine.

 

[WildCat]

Perhaps you fail to understand the situation. It is a joke which is voter disenfranchisement and the originator of this rubbish could easily face criminal charges.

I'm sure they'll find the author right about the time they find the originator of the "Bill Gates will send you a free laptop if you forward this email to 10 friends" email.

 

[gdnp]

Perhaps you fail to understand the situation. It is a joke which is voter disenfranchisement and the originator of this rubbish could easily face criminal charges.

They easily could. As could anyone who forwarded it on. Whether they would be convicted or not would depend on how the jury judged their intent.

A guy who plays Willam Tell with his friend and misses low would probably be charged with negligent homicide rather than first degree murder. Is there a similar charge for negligent voter fraud?

 

[ImaginalDisc]

I'm sure they'll find the author right about the time they find the originator of the "Bill Gates will send you a free laptop if you forward this email to 10 friends" email.

I said nothing about how likely it is that they'd be found, only what sort of welcome they'd get from law enforcement.

 

[WildCat]

I said nothing about how likely it is that they'd be found, only what sort of welcome they'd get from law enforcement.

I doubt it would even get to trial, as they'd have to prove intent. The same reason the guys who made the Aqua Teen Hunger Force lite-brite ads never went to trial - there was no intent to make anyone think it was a bomb.

 

[ImaginalDisc]

I doubt it would even get to trial, as they'd have to prove intent. The same reason the guys who made the Aqua Teen Hunger Force lite-brite ads never went to trial - there was no intent to make anyone think it was a bomb.

I think the salient points there are that the objects were not bombs, they were not bombs, they were not bombs, and also, they were not bombs.

 

[Jeff Corey]

From the above site:
So it's a "joke" that wasn't perceived as funny 8 years ago and was illegal then as well.

But hey, if somebody is that stupid, ignorant, mis-informand, illiterate or gullible they shouldn't be voting regardless. Right? Guess the joke is on them for falling what is such an obvious piece of well crafted satire.

I mean, nobody really thinks Colbert is a hard core Conservative, either.
Boo

Also from that site,"A Democratic Party spokesperson characterized the hoax as a "last-minute dirty trick."

Wait a minute, Colbear isn't a hard core Conservative?

 

[RandFan]

So it's a "joke" that wasn't perceived as funny 8 years ago and was illegal then as well.

There's no accounting for taste.

Boo, seriously, to be "illegal" there had to be an intent to defraud. I'm skeptical such a case can be made.

 

[ImaginalDisc]

There's no accounting for taste.

Boo, seriously, to be "illegal" there had to be an intent to defraud. I'm skeptical such a case can be made.

The "it was a joke, ha-ha-ha" defense is based on the idea that they knew the information they were disseminating was false, but did it anyway for the lulz, which probably doesn't work as a defense against fraud.

 

[RandFan]

If you yelled "fire" in a crowded theater as a joke, you'd be facing charges regardless of what a knee slapper you thought it was.

This would fall under reckless endangerment. I don't think you could make a case for reckless endangerment at it relates to the flier. And the law cited specifically states intent is requisite. ID you likely don't have a case here.