Democracy protests in Hong Kong

Beerina said:
I don't know this is necessarily the case. There are more freedoms than just freedom of speech, and voting. The power of an economy is tied to economic freedoms, and has little to do with freedom of speech.

I sometimes joke (though not so much anymore) that what good is freedom of speech if every other freedom is prescribed in detail by busybodies in government?

Heck, one way to keep China down would be to encourage freedom of speech, and that thence to voting, with attendant massive overspending and over-regulation, hoping they leap America-as-economic-pinnacle and quantum tunnel directly to Europe-on-the-decline.
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And what would you replace Democracy with?

Another reason why my Libertarian stage did not last long was that many of my comrades were basically hostile to democracy, and, although they did not say it openly, seemed to feel that the Wealthy should rule.
 
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Ryokan said:
The big difference is that now there's a camera in every hand, and an easy way to distribute the pictures and videos. China won't risk it.
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My daughter e-mailed me some pictures she had taken of herself and two children in Central yesterday signing petition posters and otherwise having a good time. I really hope this ends well.

I've been following regular updates in the South China Post online at http://www.scmp.com/topics/occupy-central
 
Good luck to the people of Hong Kong and to the people of China in general. Things will certainly change there eventually, and the best thing we can do is to give them moral support. I think it is best for them to protest in the way that they do, non-violently and rationally.
 
It's quite interesting to watch this develop. I completely understand and support the protesters...but with that being said, it's extremely unlikely that they're gonna' accomplish much. It's not just that they're fighting against an intransigent Chinese government that has no intention of listening to them; it's that there are also quite a few Hong Kong people who support (or at least don't want to fight against) the Chinese gov't's decision.

The demographics of the protests are quite telling. Mostly students, or people who are at the lower end of the income scale. Middle and upper class Hongkongnese are far more upset with the protesters -- who are interrupting business and causing them to lose money -- than they are with the Chinese gov't.

The combination of adamant determination from the Chinese gov't, and apathy from those Hongkongnese who actually are in positions of power, means that this is very, very unlikely to have any meaningful impact; at most, they might get some insignificant concession thrown their way.
 
Wolfman said:
It's quite interesting to watch this develop. I completely understand and support the protesters...but with that being said, it's extremely unlikely that they're gonna' accomplish much. It's not just that they're fighting against an intransigent Chinese government that has no intention of listening to them; it's that there are also quite a few Hong Kong people who support (or at least don't want to fight against) the Chinese gov't's decision.

The demographics of the protests are quite telling. Mostly students, or people who are at the lower end of the income scale. Middle and upper class Hongkongnese are far more upset with the protesters -- who are interrupting business and causing them to lose money -- than they are with the Chinese gov't.
The combination of adamant determination from the Chinese gov't, and apathy from those Hongkongnese who actually are in positions of power, means that this is very, very unlikely to have any meaningful impact; at most, they might get some insignificant concession thrown their way.
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Do you have the results of a poll or survey to support what's highlighted above?

After a very brief Google, I can only find this:

http://www.rfa.org/english/news/china/hong-kong-03142013141313.html

Poll Says Hong Kongers Would Prefer British Rule
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The article is more than a year old but the analysis is quite nuanced. ;)

Not that I don't agree that not much will happen. That will only occur when the central government collapses; either due to some fierce high level political struggle or a catastrophic financial meltdown.
 
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