Democracy is in trouble....

[johnny karate]

Time and again you make things up like "fictional black friends". Your pathetic lying (... and saying fictional black friends IS lying) is serial. You think affordable housing is voter related??? Just like one of "fictional black friend" said... "You Whitey's play this game as if voting is the answer; the answer is actions."

Now that we have President Joe Biden in place and Congress is controlled by Biden Democrats (not to be confused with Bernie Democrats), those listed issues should go away.

It’s not lying to say that you don’t believe what someone else is telling you.

And gosh, call me a hard-hearted cynic, but for some reason when random people on the Internet present anecdotes that perfectly support whatever point they’re trying to make, I have a hard time believing them.

Therefore, I’ll refer to the characters in your little stories “fictional” to my heart’s content.

Points for the nearly-convincing dialogue, though.

 

[Bob001]

.....
Secure balloting requires not only that a vote be immune from alteration between the casting and the counting, but immune from tracking.

When somebody casts a vote in person he knows he voted. There is also a record of him signing in at the polling place. Mall ballots are returned in an envelope that is barcoded. Many states have systems to allow voters to confirm online that their vote was received. Ballots themselves don't need to be tracked, unless you think the authorities aren't counting ballots they received.

 

[CaptainHowdy]

Or any election. We keep doing study after study, investigation after investigation, into the vague Right wing wankfantasy of buses of brown people and dead people using absentee ballots being used to outvote the good God fearing white folks and NOTHING EVER COMES OF IT.

- Loyola Law School looked at over a billion (billion with a b) votes cast over 14 year period and found... 31 credible cases of voter impersonation, and some of those might have been clerical errors.

- A five year vote fraud investigation by the George W. Bush administration (you know that liberal thinktank) turned up "virtually no evidence" of organized fraud. 86 convictions for various forms of voter fraud did come about due to this investigation and again many of these appear to be clerical errors.

- A 2014 two year investigation to voting in Iowa yielded only 27 credible cases and yet again tended more toward clerical errors.

- The Washington Post found an average of 4 documented cases of voter fraud out of 136 million votes cast.

- Dartmouth found no evidence of voter fraud in the 2016 election.

- The Secretary of State for the State of Kansas reviewed 84 million votes and found 14 cases.

- In 2011 Wisconsin charged 20 felons with falsifying voting records in an attempt to vote.

So yeah the recurring theme, from Republican, Democrat, Academic, and Press investigations all seem to agree that if you look at millions upon millions of votes you might find.... a few cases, most of which are clerical errors.

So yes anyone still going "But are we sure voting is secure enough?" is not acting as an honest agents in this discussion and almost certainly has an ulterior motive.

You can't steal an election without manipulating the vote counts. So there must've been massive voter fraud that occurred in the 2016 election when Trump colluded with the Russians to steal the election from Hillary, which is something that has been totally proven to have happened. How do you square that with your claim that study after study shows voter fraud is exceedingly rare?

 

[The Great Zaganza]

You can't steal an election without manipulating the vote counts. So there must've been massive voter fraud that occurred in the 2016 election when Trump colluded with the Russians to steal the election from Hillary, which is something that has been totally proven to have happened. How do you square that with your claim that study after study shows voter fraud is exceedingly rare?

that is debatable.

 

[Pixel42]

You can't steal an election without manipulating the vote counts. So there must've been massive voter fraud that occurred in the 2016 election when Trump colluded with the Russians to steal the election from Hillary, which is something that has been totally proven to have happened. How do you square that with your claim that study after study shows voter fraud is exceedingly rare?

Gerrymandering, voter suppression and the use of social media to spread lies do not involve manipulating votes once they've been cast, yet all can significantly affect the outcome of an election.

 

[Bob001]

You can't steal an election without manipulating the vote counts. So there must've been massive voter fraud that occurred in the 2016 election when Trump colluded with the Russians to steal the election from Hillary, which is something that has been totally proven to have happened. How do you square that with your claim that study after study shows voter fraud is exceedingly rare?

No one has claimed that the Russians manipulated vote counts. What the Russians did do, among other things, is manipulate social media to promote lies that supported Trump and/or hurt Clinton.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_interference_in_the_2016_United_States_elections

 

[Mumbles]

You should explain to your fictional black friends that pretty much all of those issues are directly tied to voting and that they should be more concerned about Republican efforts to make voting more difficult for them, and maybe consider what that tells them about Republicans.

His black "friends" likely know this, and most of them do not argue with him, because he's actually just "that guy at work that's always talking", and not an actual friend at all.

It's definitely true that things like jobs, education, and health care are top concerns among black voters - as with every voter. But when one candidate addresses these topics, and the other blathers on about scenes from Birth of a Nation, they , like other people, figure things out quickly.

And yes, I mean people of all races figure it out quickly.

 

[Distracted1]

No, I claim you find problems where there are none and ignore actual real problems that are advantageous to party that you like.

Do you think you are first guy ever that tried to peddle "voter fraud omg" nonsense here on this forum?


You are lying and gaslighting. All fraud noise we heard in last few months was from loser of this election.


More lying.


Oh, election reform is needed, but not kind of reform that authoritarian rethuglican degenerates want to ensure One True Party rule.

I shall give your "yes, election reform is needed- but not if those less-than-human by virtue of disagreeing with me 'people' are allowed any input" argument all the consideration it is due.

You might, in the interim, acquire a dictionary and attempt to gain an understanding of the difference between a "lie" and an opinion or piece of data that you find incorrect. Or don't, if you don't wish to. Not doing so will certainly not lessen my opinion of your reasoning ability.

 

[johnny karate]

You can't steal an election without manipulating the vote counts. So there must've been massive voter fraud that occurred in the 2016 election when Trump colluded with the Russians to steal the election from Hillary, which is something that has been totally proven to have happened. How do you square that with your claim that study after study shows voter fraud is exceedingly rare?

Exactly. How can anyone possibly square this scenario that Captain Howdy fabricated with science and facts?

Checkmate, libtards.

 

[Mader Levap]

I shall give your "yes, election reform is needed- but not if those less-than-human by virtue of disagreeing with me 'people' are allowed any input" argument all the consideration it is due.

You may find with surprise that I care about opinion of pro-authoritarians on democratic reforms as much as I care about opinion of Nazis on Jews.

You might, in the interim, acquire a dictionary and attempt to gain an understanding of the difference between a "lie" and an opinion or piece of data that you find incorrect. Or don't, if you don't wish to. Not doing so will certainly not lessen my opinion of your reasoning ability.

Lack of rebuttal noted. I repeat: loudest and only whine about election result we all heard was from loser. Your lies and gaslighting about democrats oh so concerned about election result won't change that.

 

[CaptainHowdy]

that is debatable.

Our electoral college system makes it possible for a Presidential candidate to receive fewer total votes and still win the election. But to win an individual state (and therefore all of the electors for that state) the candidate must receive more votes than the other candidates. That can be achieved by pulling fraudulent ballots out from under a table when nobody is watching (which totally didn't happen, although it could). It can be achieved by not counting ballots cast by voters who are affiliated with the wrong political party. It can be achieved by making it easy for people to vote multiple times or allowing ineligible people to vote. It can be achieved by publishing potentially damaging information about a candidate right before election day (Hillary's emails in 2016) or actively suppressing damaging information about a candidate right before election day (Hunter Biden). It can be achieved by malicious foreign actors setting up sock puppets on Facebook and employing advanced KGB developed mind control techniques to brainwash American voters into doing Putin's bidding (which is so obviously what happened in 2016 that we didn't even need evidence to prove it). Ultimately, the winner of an election needs to be able to claim more votes than the loser.

 

[CaptainHowdy]

Exactly. How can anyone possibly square this scenario that Captain Howdy fabricated with science and facts?

Checkmate, libtards.

Another non-sequitur from one of our resident racists.

 

[JoeMorgue]

You can't steal an election without manipulating the vote counts. So there must've been massive voter fraud that occurred in the 2016 election when Trump colluded with the Russians to steal the election from Hillary, which is something that has been totally proven to have happened. How do you square that with your claim that study after study shows voter fraud is exceedingly rare?

It's easy to square. You start by actually squaring it with what I said and not intentionally misrepresenting it. It's called honesty, try it sometime.

 

[jimbob]

Another non-sequitur from one of our resident racists.

Is this the, "oh if you mention race you're a racist, even if you are mentioning the impact of racism on blacks" fallacy?

 

[johnny karate]

It's easy to square. You start by actually squaring it with what I said and not intentionally misrepresenting it. It's called honesty, try it sometime.

I think that might make you racist, but I’m totally clear on how the rules work.

 

[johnny karate]

Is this the, "oh if you mention race you're a racist, even if you are mentioning the impact of racism on blacks" fallacy?

This is also possibly racist, but again l’m not sure. Safe to assume it is though.

 

[jimbob]

This is also possibly racist, but again l’m not sure. Safe to assume it is though.

That is my, for want of a better word, understanding. I seem to recall that Applecored and The Big Dog used to think it a hilarious gotcha to call anyone racist if they said that blacks were disadvantaged because of racism.

 

[No Other]

It’s not lying to say that you don’t believe what someone else is telling you.

You can disagree without claiming that I am lying... and saying my friends are FICTIONAL is saying I am lying.

 

[Dr. Keith]

You can disagree without claiming that I am lying... and saying my friends are FICTIONAL is saying I am lying.

So you claim.

That is to say: If your argument is based on their testimony we have no real reason to take your argument seriously until their testimony can be verified. A simple workaround is to make arguments that don't rely on personal testimony of your imagined acquaintances.

You'll notice that most people here understand that. Or, just don't have a lot of acquaintances in real life.

 

[CaptainHowdy]

It's easy to square. You start by actually squaring it with what I said and not intentionally misrepresenting it. It's called honesty, try it sometime.

You said that:

"We keep doing study after study, investigation after investigation, into the vague Right wing wankfantasy of buses of brown people and dead people using absentee ballots being used to outvote the good God fearing white folks and NOTHING EVER COMES OF IT.

.....So yeah the recurring theme, from Republican, Democrat, Academic, and Press investigations all seem to agree that if you look at millions upon millions of votes you might find.... a few cases, most of which are clerical errors.

and

So yes anyone still going "But are we sure voting is secure enough?" is not acting as an honest agents in this discussion and almost certainly has an ulterior motive."

That sounds to me like you're saying our elections are secure. Inconsequential clerical errors might sometimes occur but outright voter fraud extensive enough to swing an election doesn't happen. Yet, in 2016, we knew that Russians succeeded in manipulating our election to Donald Trump's advantage. Russian interference was so obvious we didn't even need evidence to prove it. The US government spent three years investigating and documenting the extent of the collusion between Trump's inner circle and the Kremlin. Several high level officials were indicted, prosecuted, and convicted of crimes as a result of this investigation. Some of them even spent time in jail and many more of them had their lives turned upside down because of their suspected role in election interference. When the investigation was concluded, it was found that nobody--not even Trump himself--was able to prove they were innocent of any wrong doing or that Russians did not succeed in manipulating the vote count to ensure Hillary's defeat.

And you want me to believe that our elections are secure and that it's unpatriotic, treasonous, and probably racist to question the results? C'mon man, that's a bunch of malarkey!