Split Thread DEI in the US

[jt512]

Disney is under investigation for DEI-based discrimination:

"FAIR has submitted a comprehensive comment letter to the Federal Communications Commission (FCC) supporting its investigation into The Walt Disney Company for potential unlawful employment discrimination practices related to diversity, equity, and inclusion (DEI) programs.

"In March, the FCC opened a public docket following evidence that Disney has systematically prioritized demographic characteristics over individual merit in hiring, promotion, and content decisions. FAIR argues that Disney’s practices violate both federal civil rights law and the FCC’s public interest standards for broadcast licensees.

"FAIR’s letter addresses two interconnected problems. First, Disney’s explicit racial and gender targeting in recruitment, measurable demographic quotas in hiring and promotion, and performance evaluations tied to “diversity metrics” constitute unlawful employment discrimination. The Supreme Court’s recent decision in Students for Fair Admissions v. Harvard made clear that using race as a factor in decision-making, even with good intentions, violates equal protection principles.

"The individuals harmed are clear: those denied opportunities because they don’t fit demographic targets, and those hired partly on the basis of race or sex rather than qualifications. But the harm extends beyond individual employees. When advancement is conditioned partly on demographic representation, the workplace message is inescapable: merit is secondary to identity."

More here.

 

[Lukraak_Sisser]

Exactly. Just look at the glorious people in charge of the US. They have clearly been chosen on merit and merit only.

 

[theprestige]

The issue with DEI is that it's a noble purpose that creates a perverse incentive to resort to ignoble actions.

Problem: People's prejudices lead them to too quickly dismiss qualified candidates for being the wrong race, sex, religion, etc.

Solution: Let us set up programs to help people not dismiss qualified candidates based on their personal prejudices.

Question: How do we know if the programs are working?

Answer: More minority hires.

Result: Programs that lead people to too quickly dismiss qualified candidates for being the wrong race (white), sex (male), religion (Christian), etc. (you get the picture), and also too quickly accept unqualified candidates for having the "right" superficial characteristics. Because they need to show that the program is working and the prejudices have been significantly mitigated. It's how we get people like Jason Arday in positions like Professor at Cambridge.

 

[Lukraak_Sisser]

The issue with DEI is that it's a noble purpose that creates a perverse incentive to resort to ignoble actions.

Problem: People's prejudices lead them to too quickly dismiss qualified candidates for being the wrong race, sex, religion, etc.

Solution: Let us set up programs to help people not dismiss qualified candidates based on their personal prejudices.

Question: How do we know if the programs are working?

Answer: More minority hires.

Result: Programs that lead people to too quickly dismiss qualified candidates for being the wrong race (white), sex (male), religion (Christian), etc. (you get the picture), and also too quickly accept unqualified candidates for having the "right" superficial characteristics. Because they need to show that the program is working and the prejudices have been significantly mitigated. It's how we get people like Jason Arday in positions like Professor at Cambridge.

Whereas the anti dei system gave us Trump.
Because no matter how noble the gop and maga try to spin it, the meritocracy they long for means that only white male evangelical christian males have true merit, especially if they come from families that already are ultra rich.

 

[theprestige]

Can you read numbers? The finance committee co-chair of the Minneapolis park board can't:

https://twitter.com/x/status/2095601548160291160

She's talking about spending hundreds of thousands of dollars, and can't actually read hundreds of thousands of dollars when it's written down for her. She's so bad at it that she won't even try to repeat it, when someone else reads it for her. She just goes on reading the rest of her statement, and has someone else fill in the blanks where she's supposed to read the numbers.

$404,755.35.

Finance committee.

Co-chair.

Do you think she's actually responsible for hundreds of thousands of dollars of city spending? Or do you think her colleagues on the board made her finance co-chair as a prank, so they could ridicule her innumeracy in public?

What amazes me is the number of people in her life, especially her teachers, who never took her aside and told her this is a serious intellectual deficiency that she should work hard to correct.

 

[SpuriusMaximus]

MY bigger problem with DEI is that it tars a whole group with the same brush. Like, if you're white, then you have some generational wealth advantage or such.

I've had a co-worker from Ukraine. As white as they get. WTH was HIS generational wealth? The USSR literally tried to genocide them. (Look up the Holodomor.) And has been suppressing their culture for the last two centuries.

I had a co-worker from Poland. Thoroughly dislikable fellow, but that's beside the point. Same deal, except it was Germany trying to genocide them in WW2. (The plan was literally to kill every last Pole by IIRC the 60s.)

Or take the Irish. As white as you can physically get. But they were discriminated just like the blacks, not only in the UK, but also in the USA. Even after WW2, you could see signs on shops saying "No blacks or Irish need apply." Hell, some racists even discriminated MORE against them than against the blacks. One even came up with the "theory" that the Irish are the missing link between apes and blacks. Where is their generational advantage?

 

[dann]

MY bigger problem with DEI is that it tars a whole group with the same brush. Like, if you're white, then you have some generational wealth advantage or such.

I've had a co-worker from Ukraine. As white as they get. WTH was HIS generational wealth? The USSR literally tried to genocide them. (Look up the Holodomor.) And has been suppressing their culture for the last two centuries.

I had a co-worker from Poland. Thoroughly dislikable fellow, but that's beside the point. Same deal, except it was Germany trying to genocide them in WW2. (The plan was literally to kill every last Pole by IIRC the 60s.)

Or take the Irish. As white as you can physically get. But they were discriminated just like the blacks, not only in the UK, but also in the USA. Even after WW2, you could see signs on shops saying "No blacks or Irish need apply." Hell, some racists even discriminated MORE against them than against the blacks. One even came up with the "theory" that the Irish are the missing link between apes and blacks. Where is their generational advantage?

Did you notice the difference between the two groups discriminated against with the "signs on shops saying "No blacks or Irish need apply.""?
Did you notice that the signs didn't say, "No blacks or whites need apply"?
Did you notice that the signs also didn't say, "No Nigerians or Irish need apply"?
Did you notice that the signs didn't even say, "No Nigerians or whites need apply"?
Are you aware of the difference that makes?

When you have the time, I would like to find photos like these, but with signs saying, "For Irish Only," "For Poles Only" or "For Ukrainians Only."
I'll be waiting.

 

[SpuriusMaximus]

That's just about the dumbest take possible.

The point is just that back then they didn't get any head-start (even in the USA the Irish were classified as "coloured",) but are discriminated against as white the same by DEI. Poles never owned slaves since 1347. The Irish didn't since 1171. But they are punished by DEI just the same, because you can't tell by sight they're different than WASP whites.

Plus, even in the USA, at the moment there are literally THREE TIMES more whites living in poverty than blacks. WTH generational wealth do their kids benefit from, when their parents are subsiding on food stamps? Why punish THEM?

 

[SpuriusMaximus]

Plus, again, if you think it's ok to exclude some ethnic group just because you think they've historically had some unfair advantage: that's literally the logic used by the Third Reich when passing the racial laws. In their case the group was jews, but same logic. They thought the Jews had some historical advantage over the ethnic germanic, generational wealth, discriminating against the ethnic germanic for well paying jobs, bla, bla, bla. Of course, the premises are false, but if you accept the premise that you can redress historical wrongs by discriminating against one group in favour of another, then the logic is perfectly valid. Not SOUND, since that also requires true premises, but VALID.

So, congrats, the wokesters just reinvented Nazism by the back door. (Which, come to think of it would make a great porn movie title)

 

[dirtywick]

and you just got done telling someone they had the dumbest take possible

 

[Safe-Keeper]

Enter S-K. Sees someone literally drop a godwin with a straight face. Exit stage left.

 

[dann]

and you just got done telling someone they had the dumbest take possible

That's just his TL;DR way of saying that there are no such photos.

ETA: It should have been: "...I would like you to find photos like these ..."

 

[dann]

Plus, again, if you think it's ok to exclude some ethnic group just because you think they've historically had some unfair advantage: that's literally the logic used by the Third Reich when passing the racial laws. In their case the group was jews, but same logic. They thought the Jews had some historical advantage over the ethnic germanic, generational wealth, discriminating against the ethnic germanic for well paying jobs, bla, bla, bla.

I guess I'll have to add a couple of questions:

Did you notice the difference between the two groups discriminated against with the "signs on shops saying "No blacks or Irish need apply.""?
Did you notice that the signs didn't say, "No blacks or whites need apply"?
Did you notice that the signs also didn't say, "No Nigerians or Irish need apply"?
Did you notice that the signs didn't even say, "No Nigerians or whites need apply"?
Are you aware of the difference that makes?

When you have the time, I would like [you] to find photos like these, but with signs saying, "For Irish Only," "For Poles Only" or "For Ukrainians Only."
I'll be waiting.

Do you understand the difference between "Juden unerwünscht" and, for instance, Deutsche unerwünscht, Dänen unerwünscht or Amis unerwünscht?
Do you understand the difference between "Deutsche kauft nicht bei Juden" and, for instance, "Canadians, don't buy American whiskey!"

Are you one of those people who always conflate anti-Zionism and antisemitism?

 

[SpuriusMaximus]

Do you understand the difference between "Juden unerwünscht" and, for instance, Deutsche unerwünscht, Dänen unerwünscht or Amis unerwünscht?
Do you understand the difference between "Deutsche kauft nicht bei Juden" and, for instance, "Canadians, don't buy American whiskey!"

Ah, so just more regurgitated "progressive" talking points. Why am I not surprised?

Same question right back at you: can you articulate what is the actual difference between that and "Irish need not apply" on a "Help wanted" sign? What is the actual generational wealth there? And even worse, what is more worthy about that than Ukrainians and Poles actually being genocided not so long ago? One got to drink from separate fountains, the other's grandma was actually a genocide victim, starving to death for not even being able to afford food. What generational wealth did they get?

And how would you even tell these days if someone was a WASP since the Plymouth colony and an Irish or Ukrainian that came later? You know, since some questions are forbidden to ask when hiring nowadays? By looks they're both white.

 

[Ranb]

I am nearly a year late to this discussion, but regarding Kirk's claim that black pilots might not be qualified, because he noticed that they had black skin.....

Kirk wants people to think there is different qualification standards for pilots who are not male or white, but he never attempted to provide any evidence. On other forums people have tried to convince me that Kirk's racism was not actually racism, as some airlines are allegedly hiring based on race. Therefore it is possible that black pilots are less qualified or unqualified.

All of my attempts to explain that it is the FAA who certifies pilots and not the airlines fall on death ears. I know that pilots continue to train after being hired, but it is still the FAA who ensures they're skilled pilots prior to flying an airliner.

https://meidasnews.com/news/charlie-kirk-if-i-see-a-black-pilot-im-going-to-be-like-boy-i-hope-hes-qualified

FAA certification.

https://www.faa.gov/training_testing/testing/acs

 

[Trausti]

The issue with DEI is that it's a noble purpose that creates a perverse incentive to resort to ignoble actions.

Problem: People's prejudices lead them to too quickly dismiss qualified candidates for being the wrong race, sex, religion, etc.

Solution: Let us set up programs to help people not dismiss qualified candidates based on their personal prejudices.

Question: How do we know if the programs are working?

Answer: More minority hires.

Result: Programs that lead people to too quickly dismiss qualified candidates for being the wrong race (white), sex (male), religion (Christian), etc. (you get the picture), and also too quickly accept unqualified candidates for having the "right" superficial characteristics. Because they need to show that the program is working and the prejudices have been significantly mitigated. It's how we get people like Jason Arday in positions like Professor at Cambridge.

I think the problem with DEI is that it's just a racist totalitarian ideology. Merit and ability have no place in it.

D.E.I. Statements Stir Debate on College Campuses

 

[Roger Ramjets]

The point is just that back then they didn't get any head-start (even in the USA the Irish were classified as "coloured",) but are discriminated against as white the same by DEI.

Not true. They had a massive head start over Black African slaves, and their path to 'whiteness' was much quicker and easier. Today they are white and don't need a leg up. meanwhile Blacks are still Black and still discriminated against. Maybe that will change in the next 150 years, but so far the balance has not been redressed.

 

[Roger Ramjets]

I think the problem with DEI is that it's just a racist totalitarian ideology. Merit and ability have no place in it.

D.E.I. Statements Stir Debate on College Campuses

You couldn't quote the text?

The numbers don't mean what you think they do.

The university asked him to fill out the requisite papers, including a statement that affirmed his belief and work in diversity, equity and inclusion... Dr. Inbar figured all had gone well, that his work and liberal politics fit well with the university... But a few days later, the department chair emailed and told him that more than 50 graduate students had signed a letter strongly denouncing his candidacy. Why? In part, because on his podcast years earlier, he had opposed diversity statements

Busted!

 

[Trausti]

You couldn't quote the text?

The numbers don't mean what you think they do.


Busted!

Wait, you think diversity statement purity tests are a good and meritorious thing? What exactly do they have to do with merit and ability?

 

[Shepherd]

Please tell me that there is a spaceship hiding behind the nearest comet ready to carry these lunatics away! We can hope, right?!

...lol