Split Thread DEI in the US

[W.D.Clinger]

It is of course true that, in the United States, such racism is nowadays most commonly found within the far right. If you turn a blind eye to the US far right, and to those who associate with the far right, then it is just barely possible to remain unaware of
how many people still consider black folk to be less intelligent than white folk just because they're black.

Which is exactly the question I asked, and exactly the one you ignored.

No, you didn't ask how many. You asked who they were:

Who are all these people who “consider black folk to be less intelligent than white folk becuase they are black”? You must live in a very racist country.

I answered the question you asked by giving you a link to 52 specific names, plus several more links that, if followed, would lead you to still more specific names.

So I ask again: how prevalent do you think that is (in the U.S., say); that is, what percentage of, say, Americans today do you think "consider black folk to be less intelligent than white folk just because they're black"?

That's a completely different question. Its answer would be quantitative rather than a list of names.

The American National Election Studies (ANES) provide some insight into the prevalence of racial resentment, but I'd have to dig into their reports to see whether those reports can answer your specific question. I doubt whether they do, as it has become quite difficult to disentangle racial resentment from loyalty to a particular political party or politician.

I don't have time right now to do your homework for you, but I'll get back to you if I conclude you are genuinely interested in learning more about this. Acknowledging that I did answer the question you actually asked would go some distance toward establishing your sincerity.

 

[arthwollipot]

Are you somehow under the impression that public schools in the US have always enjoyed high funding? Do you think the generations that industrialized the US, invited the semiconductor, and got the US to the Moon went to lavishly funded public schools? Hah.

Are you somehow under the impression that the people who did those things were not highly educated? Hah.

Yes. And if parents choose to feed their kids processed junk food instead of milk and eggs, what do you?

Food desert - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

You look like an ignorant fool when you say things like this.

 

[jt512]

No, you didn't ask how many. You asked who they were:

I also stated, "I wonder how prevalent Darat thinks they are." So, technically, so, yeah, I guess I can't hold you responsible for that one.

I answered the question you asked by giving you a link to 52 specific names, plus several more links that, if followed, would lead you to still more specific names.


That's a completely different question. Its answer would be quantitative rather than a list of names.

The American National Election Studies (ANES) provide some insight into the prevalence of racial resentment, but I'd have to dig into their reports to see whether those reports can answer your specific question. I doubt whether they do, as it has become quite difficult to disentangle racial resentment from loyalty to a particular political party or politician.

I don't have time right now to do your homework for you, but I'll get back to you if I conclude you are genuinely interested in learning more about this. Acknowledging that I did answer the question you actually asked would go some distance toward establishing your sincerity.

I'm interested in people's perceptions of how prevalent the belief is that black people are genetically less intelligent than white people. When Dirat referred to "those who," I doubt he meant those 52+ guys you referred to. More broadly, the amount of obsession with racism on this site would seem to imply that racist beliefs are quite prevalent. So, I'll ask you directly. Don't do any research. Rather, if you don't mind, could you state your present belief—your best guess, based on whatever knowledge or just impressions you already have: What percentage of (say) Americans would you say think black people are inherently less intelligent that white people?

 

[W.D.Clinger]

So, I'll ask you directly. Don't do any research. Rather, if you don't mind, could you state your present belief—your best guess, based on whatever knowledge or just impressions you already have: What percentage of (say) Americans would you say think black people are inherently less intelligent that white people?

No research?

I'd guess five per cent, but with a very wide range of uncertainty. It wouldn't surprise me if it's only two per cent, or as much as twenty per cent.

Folks were more likely to admit to such prejudices in 1994, following publication of The Bell Curve. That book's reliance upon the opinions of Arthur Jensen, John Philippe Rushton, and the like led to more critical examination of their opinions and sources. Their spirited defenses of Cyril Burt's twin studies, years after those studies had been found to be seriously flawed and, in a number of cases, based upon fabricated data, led instead to a more skeptical view of such opinions. We now know that many of the studies that purport to have found evidence for meaningful correlations between race and intelligence were funded by organizations that deliberately set out to fund researchers who were judged likely to confirm the pre-conceived results those organizations wanted. Fairly or not, that history has attached a foul odor to the entire field of inquiry, which has a lot to do with why it is so hard to answer your revised question.

I would guess that very few of today's racists are aware of that history.

Thought experiment: What do you think Stephen Miller would say if you were to ask him whether he thinks black people are inherently less intelligent than white people? I'm pretty sure he would say he doesn't subscribe to that belief. (What I really think he'd do is to ignore the question while berating the person who asked it.) If he were to give that answer, would you believe him?

 

[arthwollipot]

I'm pretty sure just about nobody short of Nick Fuentes would openly admit that they think black people are less intelligent than white people. But quite a few will think it.

 

[Darat]

I've mentioned it before, but nutrition plays an important part of potential intelligence.

Getting good nutrition to infants is very important.

This is why many schools, all over the world, provide free breakfasts (and often lunches).

If you can keep people too poor to feed themselves, you can keep 'em dumb.

I also think we will find epigenetic effects are much stronger than we usually give credit to, and that some of those effects will have started much further back than we usually considered i.e. when your maternal grandmother was being gestated, so they can persist across generations even when the environment has changed.

 

[thaiboxerken]

I'm pretty sure just about nobody short of Nick Fuentes would openly admit that they think black people are less intelligent than white people. But quite a few will think it.

Exactly. Other factors to consider: Many racists understand that their racist views are frowned upon and lie about it. Some racists don't believe they are racist and just think black people are less intelligent "as a fact." Other racists just refuse to answer the question.
The line of questioning that jt512 is pursuing is meant to convey the message that racism isn't a big deal in the USA and that DEI isn't needed. He's attempting to shift the burden of proof. Don't take the bait. He should be proving that DEI isn't necessary, not the other way around.

 

[jt512]

No research?

I'd guess five per cent, but with a very wide range of uncertainty. It wouldn't surprise me if it's only two per cent, or as much as twenty per cent.

Thanks for that. I'd still like to hear Darat's opinion and those of others who seem obsessed with racism.

Thought experiment: What do you think Stephen Miller would say if you were to ask him whether he thinks black people are inherently less intelligent than white people?

I have no idea.

I'm pretty sure he would say he doesn't subscribe to that belief. (What I really think he'd do is to ignore the question while berating the person who asked it.) If he were to give that answer, would you believe him?

Assuming your priors, I'd give say there would be a 95% chance that his statement was sincere. And I have no information that would cause me to deviate from those priors.

 

[jt512]

I also think we will find epigenetic effects are much stronger than we usually give credit to, and that some of those effects will have started much further back than we usually considered i.e. when your maternal grandmother was being gestated, so they can persist across generations even when the environment has changed.

So blacks aren't genetically dumber than whites, just epigenetically. That sounds almost identically racist.

 

[Darat]

So blacks aren't genetically dumber than whites, just epigenetically. That sounds almost identically racist.

Where does race come into what I said?

 

[thaiboxerken]

Where does race come into what I said?

That man made of straw has it.

 

[jt512]

Where does race come into what I said?

Fair enough. That inference was not warranted. Still curious about how prevalent you think the belief is in the US (or elsewhere) that blacks are inherently less smart than whites.

 

[arthwollipot]

Fair enough. That inference was not warranted. Still curious about how prevalent you think the belief is in the US (or elsewhere) that blacks are inherently less smart than whites.

I'm curious to know how you would quantify such a thing.

 

[Darat]

Fair enough. That inference was not warranted. Still curious about how prevalent you think the belief is in the US (or elsewhere) that blacks are inherently less smart than whites.

Not to avoid your question - but why ask it? I made no comment that involved stating anything about the prevalence of those that think black folk are less intelligent than white folk because they are black. (Actually reading that back it I suppose my statement did imply that it is a non-zero figure since it also implies that I think people with such opinions do exist.)

To your question - I don't know. I do know they exist as I have encountered people who hold that belief on this forum over the decades.

 

[wareyin]

Fair enough. That inference was not warranted. Still curious about how prevalent you think the belief is in the US (or elsewhere) that blacks are inherently less smart than whites.

The President of the US has said that black people are "too stupid", and lazy, and refused to rent to them, and had staff remove black employees from his casino floors when he was around, and even recently shared a video depicting Obama and his wife as apes.

 

[Trausti]

Are you somehow under the impression that the people who did those things were not highly educated? Hah.

Food desert - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

You look like an ignorant fool when you say things like this.

Oh, my goodness. Is this another one of those lefty notions that certain demographics lack agency? If the people in those communities wanted "fresh food" or something else, they would express that with their consumer choices. They would not buy the processed junk and the stores in those neighborhoods would adapt accordingly. Just, wow.

 

[Trausti]

Fair enough. That inference was not warranted. Still curious about how prevalent you think the belief is in the US (or elsewhere) that blacks are inherently less smart than whites.

Is there a belief in the US that Whites are less smart than Asians? Why would people think that.

 

[arthwollipot]

Oh, my goodness. Is this another one of those lefty notions that certain demographics lack agency? If the people in those communities wanted "fresh food" or something else, they would express that with their consumer choices. They would not buy the processed junk and the stores in those neighborhoods would adapt accordingly. Just, wow.

If they didn't buy the junk food, they would starve to death.

You're obviously not understanding the concept.

 

[Trausti]

If they didn't buy the junk food, they would starve to death.

You're obviously not understanding the concept.

I am understanding that people can have different preferences than you and me. The "fresh food" idea is kind of elite/privileged worldview that is often not shared with people of lower socioeconomic status. They're usually not interested in "fresh food." If you doubt me, look up the controversy when anyone suggests that SNAP or public food assistance should not be used to buy junk food.

 

[arthwollipot]

They're usually not interested in "fresh food."

There you go again, completely out of touch with reality.

It's not that they're not interested in fresh food, it's that fresh food is not available where they live.