DeGeneres rides on Bolt - then racism outrage

[jimbob]

It's definitely affectionate as well. But Chris Rock joked about how America was so racist in the past that white people would literally climb onto black people and ride them around. I immediately thought of that when I saw the picture - not at all upsetting. No big deal, not worth getting angry about.

I wasn't aware of the history of that meme. I can see where you are coming from, but don't know enough about the cultural waters in which Ellen DeGeneres swims - I'd have thought that as a professional she'd have kept up to date on Chris Rock jokes, but maybe not.

 

[SpuriusMaximus]

It's accurate, too. Chris Rock didn't make that up. It's actually not a joke at all. Although it happened more in Latin America than the USA. Not piggyback like in the DeGeneres photo, though.

In addition to the more common litter carried by two slaves, the latin america also had the Silla, i.e., seat. Which was literally a chair attached to the back and head of a single slave, with the occupant facing backwards while the slave carried them around. It was especially popular in rough or mountainous territory, where a conventional litter would have been more cumbersome.

So, yeah, people who were too lazy to run around doing their chores on foot, have some centuries of tradition of being carried around by a fit black guy.

And then the more conventional litters were used to carry people around pretty much since we have a written history (the pharaohs and viziers were carried that way in Egypt), and slaves WERE used to carry people that way. Especially in latin America, it was pretty much standard for rich people to be carried by two slaves, again, unless the terrain made it better to be carried by just one.

And that did include racing. AFAIK, the last official sedan chair race happened in China in 1975, although by then it was not carried by slaves.

So, yes, historically rich people HAVE been carried around and even raced around by slaves.

Edit: again, I'm not saying that DeGeneres was necessarily being racist. I'm a firm believer in Hanlon's Razor: never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity. Just that, well, people looking too hard for a resolution to that stupid joke could have gotten that cringe-worthy image.

 

[bigred]

Gotta find your outrage where you can.

Heck yeah. Jump on that bangwagon baby. Be offended first; reach for logic and rationale later, if at all. And if anyone disagrees they're a _____ist! (fill in whichever works best/is trendiest)

why is she different than any other white person?

Because she's a lesbian. duh! If that was a white heterosexual guy who'd done that, there'd be howls you could hear round the world.

It's an interesting battle: who wins, the race card or the LGBT card? 21st century cage match!

lmao

 

[jimbob]

Bigred, I am not sure how much weight I should give your judgement on the subject of racism and offence, given that you have chosen an avatar that is racially offensive to many for obvious reasons. I understand that you don't accept that it is racist, but you must acknowledge there are good reasons for thinking it so.

It is not like Benedict Cumberbatch referring to coloured people* and then apologising. It's more like someone wearing an SS uniform and when accused of racism, continuing to do so, saying they are only doing it because they like Hugo Boss's styling.



*which I can remember being used in the UK by people trying not to be racist about 35 years ago.

 

[smartcooky]

... given that you have chosen an avatar that is racially offensive to many for obvious reasons. .

Err, sorry, the Confederate Flag is a racist symbol? Really? Surely, in this day and age, there aren't any intelligent people left who still believe that the American Civil War was all about slavery? IF you are one of them, then here are a few facts for you that might make you reconsider that position.

1. Abraham Lincoln was not an abolitionist, as is made obvious by the content of a number of his speeches and proclamations..

August, 1852: "If I could save the Union without freeing any slave I would do it… what I do about slavery and the colored race, I do because I believe it helps to save the Union."

September, 1858, "I will say, then, that I am not, nor have I ever been, in favor of bringing about in any way the social and political equality of the white and black races."

2. Generals on both sides made it clear that the war was not about slavery

1862, in a letter to the Chicago Trbune, Union Army General Ulysses S Grant said "The sole object of this war is to restore the Union. Should I be convinced it has any other object, or that the government designs using its soldiers to execute the wishes of the abolitionists, I pledge to you my honor as a man and a soldier I would resign my commission and carry my sword to the other side"

1864, Union General William T. Sherman said "I am honest in my belief that it is not fair to my men to count negros as equals. Let us capture negros, of course, and use them to the best advantage."

1858, Confederate General Robert E Lee said "There are few, I believe, in this enlightened age, who will not acknowledge that slavery is an institution of a moral and political evil"

1866, General Lee made a statement that "All the south ever desired was that the union, as established by our forefathers, be preserved; and that the Government, as originally organized, should be administered in purity and truth."

3. Interesting fact. Both aforementioned Union Generals Grant and Sherman owned slaves, yet neither Confederate Generals Andrew Jackson nor Robert E Lee ever owned slaves.

4. There were over 60,000 Southern Blacks, both free and slave who fought with the Confederate armies.

 

[Pup]

Err, sorry, the Confederate Flag is a racist symbol? Really? Surely, in this day and age, there aren't any intelligent people left who still believe that the American Civil War was all about slavery?

Oh dear. I see the Lost Causers have got hold of you. They have a large and strident online presence, and can sound convincing to those who don't understand the context. Why it annoys me is these people claim to be preserving southern history, but what they're doing is preserving the way southerners rewrote their history circa 1870-1910, mostly to justify their loss, rather than southern history during and before the war, 1860-1865.

1. Abraham Lincoln was not an abolitionist, as is made obvious by the content of a number of his speeches and proclamations..

Keep reading for yourself. Don't just rely on regurgitated snippets. July 10, 1858: "I should like to know if taking this old Declaration of Independence, which declares that all men are equal upon principle and making exceptions to it where will it stop. If one man says it does not mean a negro, why not another say it does not mean some other man? ... Let us discard all these things[about which race is inferior], and unite as one people throughout this land, until we shall once more stand up declaring that all men are created equal."

But that kind of stuff wouldn't get him elected. He turned moderate even speaking in southern Illinois, and certainly by the time he was running for president. Read what white southerners wrote about him. They knew, and he knew, that stopping slavery from expanding would cause its eventual end, as slaves kept reproducing but land for them to work wouldn't.

2. Generals on both sides made it clear that the war was not about slavery

Colonel Mosby, the Grey Ghost of Virginia whose military record was clear, was just as disgusted with the Lost Cause claptrap as I am. He wrote June 4, 1907 (see the whole letter here): "The South went to war on account of Slavery. South Carolina went to war – as she said in her Secession proclamation – because slavery wd. not be secure under Lincoln. South Carolina ought to know what was the cause for her seceding. . . . I am not ashamed of having fought on the side of slavery – a soldier fights for his country – right or wrong – he is not responsible for the political merits of the cause he fights in. The South was my country."

3. Interesting fact. Both aforementioned Union Generals Grant and Sherman owned slaves, yet neither Confederate Generals Andrew Jackson nor Robert E Lee ever owned slaves.

It's a little more complicated than that.

4. There were over 60,000 Southern Blacks, both free and slave who fought with the Confederate armies.

And there's the crowning touch of the modern addition to the Lost Cause myth. People who claim all those black Confederates are like people who see bigfoot.

From http://www.civilwar.org/education/history/untold-stories/black-confederates.html

"The modern myth of black Confederate soldiers is akin to a conspiracy theory—shoddy analysis has been presented, repeated, amplified, and twisted to such an extent that utterly baseless claims of as many as 80,000 black soldiers fighting for the Confederacy (which would roughly equal the size of Lee’s army at Gettysburg) have even made their way into classroom textbooks. It is right to study, discover, and share facts about the complex lives of 19th century black Americans. It is wrong to exaggerate, obfuscate, and ignore those facts in order to suit 21st century opinions."

Edited to add: What really makes the Confederate flag a racist symbol to living people is its use in the 1950s-1960s as a symbol of being anti-equality and pro-segregation. They or their parents remembered it was the symbol for keeping black people out of white schools. That's what needs dealt with, not what it stood for 150+ years ago.

 

[Belz...]

I mean...it is racist...

How is it racist? Is anything including a black person racist?

 

[Caper]

Joe Rogan on his podcast says about this kind of thing.... "This is what happens when people don't have to worry about food."

 

[sir drinks-a-lot]

How is it racist? Is anything including a black person racist?

I actually do think that just about any photo with both a black person and a white person in it will be considered racist by some given today's culture of outrage and virtue signaling. Many people work really hard to try and figure out any possible racist interpretation, and have gotten quite good at it.

I'll admit to having a bit of a chuckle to now see it happening to another of the protected classes of the outraged Left: an actual lesbian! Maybe the fact that they are now eating their own will stop this ridiculous trend.

 

[paulhutch]

It's definitely affectionate as well. But Chris Rock joked about how America was so racist in the past that white people would literally climb onto black people and ride them around. I immediately thought of that when I saw the picture - not at all upsetting. No big deal, not worth getting angry about.

Found the Chris Rock joke: https://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Chris_Rock

Bigger and Blacker (HBO, 1999)

Nothing more racist than a old black man, you know why? 'Cause the old black man went through some real racism. He ain't go through that "I can't get a cab" ****. He was the cab! White man just jump on his back: "Main Street!"

 

[Corsair 115]

Err, sorry, the Confederate Flag is a racist symbol? Really? Surely, in this day and age, there aren't any intelligent people left who still believe that the American Civil War was all about slavery? IF you are one of them, then here are a few facts for you that might make you reconsider that position.

Tell me, what do the official declarations made by the seceding states say their reasons are for wanting to leave the Union? As I recall, the right to retain slavery is prominently mentioned in them.

 

[Pup]

Tell me, what do the official declarations made by the seceding states say their reasons are for wanting to leave the Union? As I recall, the right to retain slavery is prominently mentioned in them.

http://www.civilwar.org/education/history/primarysources/declarationofcauses.html

Exactly. Those who say the war wasn't about slavery have to focus on the northern reaction to secession at the beginning, which was to preserve the union.

If they look at why the southern states said they were seceding (at the link above), or why the Confederacy was formed (the Cornerstone speech, etc.) or late in the war when the Emancipation Proclamation showed there was a new additional war aim, slavery keeps rearing its head.

 

[SpuriusMaximus]

@paulhutch
Unfortunately, again, that's not even much of a joke. Many hotels and such all around the world actually did rent out litters, some carried by slaves and some by more expensive paid employees, to take people to wherever they wanted to go.

I'm not sure if that included the Silla variant, and probably most people peferred a sedan chair if they were renting transportation from an expensive hotel, but I'd imagine that in mountainous areas there'd be nothing to stop you from renting a Silla to take you places.

So, yeah, one way or the other, there literally were slaves whose day involved some random douchebag hopping onto their back and using them as a taxi. It's not a joke.

Mind you, not all of them were black. In China or India, locals would carry you around instead.

 

[LTC8K6]

I would have thought that in the times we live in, she'd have seen the racism tag getting put on that joke from a mile away?

 

[jimbob]

@paulhutch
Unfortunately, again, that's not even much of a joke. Many hotels and such all around the world actually did rent out litters, some carried by slaves and some by more expensive paid employees, to take people to wherever they wanted to go.

I'm not sure if that included the Silla variant, and probably most people peferred a sedan chair if they were renting transportation from an expensive hotel, but I'd imagine that in mountainous areas there'd be nothing to stop you from renting a Silla to take you places.

So, yeah, one way or the other, there literally were slaves whose day involved some random douchebag hopping onto their back and using them as a taxi. It's not a joke.

Mind you, not all of them were black. In China or India, locals would carry you around instead.

I did think of Sedan Chairs and litters after my questioning of the racism, but I could easily see how one might not think of that in the context of slavery - I tend to think of Georgian London and paid servants when thinking of those, but I am British.

 

[Belz...]

Joe Rogan on his podcast says about this kind of thing.... "This is what happens when people don't have to worry about food."

Yeah, looks that way.

I actually do think that just about any photo with both a black person and a white person in it will be considered racist by some given today's culture of outrage and virtue signaling. Many people work really hard to try and figure out any possible racist interpretation, and have gotten quite good at it.

I'll admit to having a bit of a chuckle to now see it happening to another of the protected classes of the outraged Left: an actual lesbian! Maybe the fact that they are now eating their own will stop this ridiculous trend.

Seems like "black" is better than "lesbian" in their oppression olympics.

 

[lobosrul]

Err, sorry, the Confederate Flag is a racist symbol? Really? Surely, in this day and age, there aren't any intelligent people left who still believe that the American Civil War was all about slavery? IF you are one of them, then here are a few facts for you that might make you reconsider that position.

1. Abraham Lincoln was not an abolitionist, as is made obvious by the content of a number of his speeches and proclamations..

August, 1852: "If I could save the Union without freeing any slave I would do it… what I do about slavery and the colored race, I do because I believe it helps to save the Union."

September, 1858, "I will say, then, that I am not, nor have I ever been, in favor of bringing about in any way the social and political equality of the white and black races."

2. Generals on both sides made it clear that the war was not about slavery

1862, in a letter to the Chicago Trbune, Union Army General Ulysses S Grant said "The sole object of this war is to restore the Union. Should I be convinced it has any other object, or that the government designs using its soldiers to execute the wishes of the abolitionists, I pledge to you my honor as a man and a soldier I would resign my commission and carry my sword to the other side"

1864, Union General William T. Sherman said "I am honest in my belief that it is not fair to my men to count negros as equals. Let us capture negros, of course, and use them to the best advantage."

1858, Confederate General Robert E Lee said "There are few, I believe, in this enlightened age, who will not acknowledge that slavery is an institution of a moral and political evil"

1866, General Lee made a statement that "All the south ever desired was that the union, as established by our forefathers, be preserved; and that the Government, as originally organized, should be administered in purity and truth."

3. Interesting fact. Both aforementioned Union Generals Grant and Sherman owned slaves, yet neither Confederate Generals Andrew Jackson nor Robert E Lee ever owned slaves.

4. There were over 60,000 Southern Blacks, both free and slave who fought with the Confederate armies.

Lincolns private correspondence makes it very clear he was was an abolitionist.

Lee absolutely did own slaves.

http://www.nola.com/politics/index.ssf/2015/06/robert_e_lee_owned_slaves_and.html

Lots of northerners including some generals were racists... your point being?

Blacks fought for the Confederacy... technically true.

How many supported it? No one knows precisely. But by drawing on these scholars and focusing on sources written or published during the war, I estimate that between 3,000 and 6,000 served as Confederate soldiers. Another 100,000 or so blacks, mostly slaves, supported the Confederacy as laborers, servants and teamsters. They built roads, batteries and fortifications; manned munitions factories—essentially did the Confederacy’s dirty work.

http://www.theroot.com/articles/history/2015/01/black_confederates_not_a_myth_here_s_why/

 

[SpuriusMaximus]

I did think of Sedan Chairs and litters after my questioning of the racism, but I could easily see how one might not think of that in the context of slavery - I tend to think of Georgian London and paid servants when thinking of those, but I am British.

Well, Georgian London was rather different from ye olde Spanish colonies in South and Central America.

 

[jimbob]

Well, Georgian London was rather different from ye olde Spanish colonies in South and Central America.

Yes, and as I said, the Americas and Britain have different histories and cultural baggage from those times.

Which is why I am not making a claim either way. If a Brit had done such a photoshop, I would be pretty happy that it would just have been a comment about his exuberant dominance that he almost could still win like that.

 

[SpuriusMaximus]

Well, isn't it how England did end up ruling half the world?