• Quick note - the problem with Youtube videos not embedding on the forum appears to have been fixed, thanks to ZiprHead. If you do still see problems let me know.

Define “Atheist”

ynot said:
That you believe gods do not exist is a reason (definition) why you an atheist. It's not a definition of the word atheist. Defining the make of a car doesn't define what a car is.
Click to expand...
I must be missing something. An atheist is defined as a person who lacks a belief in any gods. Or, does not believe in any gods.
 
kellyb said:
Theists just seem to not like that basic answer.
Click to expand...
We have had a number of theists here who simply did not believe it. Their theory was, atheists knew that God existed, but were mad at God, so pretended not to Believe.
 
If anyone concludes that “atheist” is far too complex and individualistic to be covered by a single generic definition, then I’m happy to change the debate to “Define Atheism”.

My preferred definition of “atheism” is very similar to my preferred definition of “atheist” . . .

Atheism = Not having a belief in a god or gods, therefore not theism.
 
Last edited:
ynot said:
Okay you win.

Now please answer the question you responded to without an answer. I've changed it to just "claims" so you can choose whether that's "knows claims" or "believes claims" to suit yourself. If you don't want to do that then just answer the question in the first sentence.
Click to expand...

ynot said:
What are atheists then?
Click to expand...

Yet again, the same equivocation. Dude, you can't just keep doing that Jabba-esque argument.

'I believe there is no god' is an entirely different statement than 'I know there is no god', although either could be expressed as 'I claim there is no god. 'Atheist' can equivocally be applied to either. I don't know which you are asking, but I am getting confident you are trying to keep it slippery to suit a foregone conclusion.

I'll try to answer: Viewing the atheism/theism dichotomy as a matter of belief, atheism is believing there is no god. Not believing there is a god is not the same, and is IMO not atheism. It could represent a couple different positions, however.
 
Last edited:
Thermal said:
'I believe there is no god' is an entirely different statement than 'I know there is no god', although either could be expressed as 'I claim there is no god. 'Atheist' can equivocally be applied to either. I don't know which you are asking, but I am getting confident you are trying to keep it slippery to suit a foregone conclusion.
Click to expand...
That they are entirely different statements is the very reason I used “claim” so you could attribute “know” or “believe” to suit your purpose. I’m merely wanting to know what your definition of “atheist or “atheism” is and isn’t.

Thermal said:
I'll try to answer: Viewing the atheism/theism dichotomy as a matter of belief, atheism is believing there is no god. Not believing there is a god is not the same, and is IMO not atheism. It could represent a couple different positions, however.
Click to expand...
Thanks! I now (only now) know what you definition of “atheism" (and "atheist"?) is in regard to belief (and what it isn't). Your definition is - Atheism is "Believing there is no god”. Can I safely assume that atheism in regard to knowledge would be “Knowing there is no god”? Or is theism/atheism purely a matter of belief?

Seems you also define atheism as being purely a matter of choice. Please correct me if I'm wrong.
 
Last edited:
ynot said:
Don't know why you think I'm on a one-man crusade when many others (even most perhaps) share the same stance I do. Perhaps argumentum ad hominem is the best you can do?
Click to expand...


One-man crusade? No ... just wondering why you keep starting a new thread asking the same question. Were you expecting different results this time?
 
ynot said:
That they are entirely different statements is the very reason I used “claim” so you could attribute “know” or “believe” to suit your purpose. I’m merely wanting to know what your definition of “atheist or “atheism” is and isn’t.


Thanks! I now (only now) know what you definition of “atheism" (and "atheist"?) is in regard to belief (and what it isn't). Your definition is - Atheism is "Believing there is no god”. Can I safely assume that atheism in regard to knowledge would be “Knowing there is no god”? Or is theism/atheism purely a matter of belief?
Click to expand...

No, and this is why I preemptively harped on the distinction. A knowledge based atheism would be along the lines of 'I see no reason to think there is a god'. Saying 'I know there is no god' is irrational belief at its most extreme. Cutting to the chase, there is insufficient data to draw a meaningful conclusion regarding god's existence; 'knowing' is not an option.

All this, of course, assumes that there is some agreed definition of god to start with. That should certainly be cleared up first, before delving into further distinctions, no? What definition of god are you using, so that we can answer your OP question meaningfully?

Seems you also define atheism as being purely a matter of choice. Please correct me if I'm wrong.
Click to expand...

Not choice, as in a decision picked from options. Belief, founded on evidence (not necessarily empirical). Experience, intuition, reason, gnosis...the basis would differ for each individual. But if I understand you correctly, then yes, I think a/theism is generally a matter of belief, and matters of reason generally fall on the spectrum of agnosticism. IMHO, anyway.
 
Elagabalus said:
One-man crusade? No ... just wondering why you keep starting a new thread asking the same question. Were you expecting different results this time?
Click to expand...
What other threads? This thread is to define atheist. The other thread I started is to define agnostic. Different "questions". Are you confusing me with another member perhaps?
 
Last edited:
Thermal said:
Saying 'I know there is no god' is irrational belief at its most extreme. Cutting to the chase, there is insufficient data to draw a meaningful conclusion regarding god's existence; 'knowing' is not an option.
Click to expand...
Serious question (not playing a silly game). Is saying “I know dinosaurs are extinct” equally an irrational belief? Or perhaps “I know there is no Santa” might be more appropriate.

We frequently use complete lack of evidence that some things do exist to conclude that those things don't exist. Why do you claim this is irrational?
 
Last edited:
Elagabalus said:
You start a define atheist thread about 2 or 3 times a year.

http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/search.php?searchid=4398276
Click to expand...
I thought you meant more recently. Even so, I find 2 or 3 times a year hard to believe. Also, when I click the link I get "Sorry - no matches. Please try some different terms". I don't recognize your forum name so thought you were relatively new to the forum. But I see you've been a member for over 4 years. Bit strange that you remember me so well. Could be the avatar I guess. Until you provide a link that works I will just have to believe you I guess. Although I've only returned to posting on this forum relatively recently after quite a long break away.
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.

Back
Top Bottom