• Quick note - the problem with Youtube videos not embedding on the forum appears to have been fixed, thanks to ZiprHead. If you do still see problems let me know.

Defendant ordered to represent herself

Darat said:
We don't have lawyers the same way you do in the USA, we have solicitors and barristers, the difference is that a barrister pleads cases in courts.
Click to expand...


As an aside, this is not the system in the whole of the UK. It is quite different in Scotland.
 
theprestige said:
Realistically, the prevalence of plea deals is another symptom of the same problem.
Click to expand...

They certainly can be, if someone is pressured to plead guilty to something he didn't do, and I know that happens. But when they've got the goods on the defendant, as they usually do, he's better off taking a deal than getting convicted and facing a max sentence.
 
Mojo


Wrong. Different qualification, different training, different legal system and....different legal aid system. For a start we didn't have the Legal Aid, Sentencing and Punishment of Offenders Act 2012. But you knew that already and just wanted to look smart, I suppose.
 
Last edited:
Bob001 said:
They certainly can be, if someone is pressured to plead guilty to something he didn't do, and I know that happens. But when they've got the goods on the defendant, as they usually do, he's better off taking a deal than getting convicted and facing a max sentence.
Click to expand...

They have their place. It's the prevalence I'm talking about.
 
Architect said:
Mojo


Wrong. Different qualification, different training, different legal system and....different legal aid system. For a start we didn't have the Legal Aid, Sentencing and Punishment of Offenders Act 2012. But you knew that already and just wanted to look smart, I suppose.
Click to expand...
And Scotland still has procurators fiscal, I remember dealing with one of them years ago.
 
theprestige said:
Poor people in the US are already kinda screwed on this front. The public defender's office (or equivalent in some jurisdictions) is generally less prestigious than the public prosecutor's office. It's generally less funded, less well-paid, and less politically advantageous.

You go to court as a criminal defendant, there's a good chance you're facing an, ambitious prosecutor, who's looking to leverage their conviction rate into high political office. A prosecutor who is being well-paid, and whose office is receiving lots of funding, to indulge and enable that ambition.

And if you're too poor to afford a good lawyer of your own, you're probably being defended by a public defender who may mean well, but is woefully over-worked, and woefully underpaid. They may be a public defender because they lack the skill, experience, or drive to be a good lawyer making "good lawyer money" somewhere other than the public defender's office.

More and more, I've come to think that if we want to do something about the excesses and misconduct of public prosecutors, especially the unconscionable rise of the plea deal in lieu of trial, we need to start by elevating the public defender's office. We need to make that office a place where ambitious legal minds go, to get paid what they are worth, to get political acclaim for their efforts.
Click to expand...

The really fun aspect of this from the defendant's point of view is that a slight majority of the private defense lawyers for hire are total muppets who make things worse, and good luck figuring out who is who as sticker price and reputation usually aren't a guide as marketing is a thing. That's where the "skill, experience, and drive" come in w/r/t "good lawyer money."

Well, that and a willingness to be a remorseless henchman for capital. That really helps in the income department.

Really, besides giving me more money, less work, and a path to power there also needs to be a more serious push towards enforcing prosecutorial ethics w/r/t their role of quasi-judicial officers. The practice of tying to maintain or expect from subordinates a conviction rate should be grounds for disbarment, etc.
 
theprestige said:
They have their place. It's the prevalence I'm talking about.
Click to expand...

True. That isn't so much on the lawyers as it is a structural issue. In petty matters taking something to trial even with a near certain acquittal is usually a bigger burden on a defendant than a guilty plea and a fine once opportunity costs are factored in.

It's a symptom of a whole bunch of problems coming back to the people making legal policy taking it as a point of pride to totally disregard the real world workings of same.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Back
Top Bottom