• Quick note - the problem with Youtube videos not embedding on the forum appears to have been fixed, thanks to ZiprHead. If you do still see problems let me know.

Deeper than primes

Status
Not open for further replies.
The Man said:
So x=A and x=B are “certain” while x=AB is not?
The Man, I do not use http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Superposition_principle for Superposition definition if A+B = AB by this meanning:
The Man said:
For example 6 can be a superposition of 3 and 3, 4 and 2 or 7 and -1, so on and so forth.
The Man said:
Also as you assert x=A to be certain as well as x=B to be certain then AB (as their superposition) would be certain.
AB is, for example, a superposition between A=dead cat + B=alive cat, which is an uncertain id, that can be collapsed into certain identity A=dead cat or certain identity B=alive cat ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schrödinger's_cat ). Also please see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quantum_superposition, but be aware that OM's superposition is not mrasured by complex or real numbers, which are some certain ids (like certain A or B ids if AB superposition is collapsed).

AB notation means that we do not know for certain the identification of x branch of some k-Uncertainty x k-Redundancy tree (where identity A or identity B are certain ids) because A and B are in superposition (x identity is not collapsed into certain identity A or certain identity B).

The Man said:
So (A,B,AB) would be one “Redundancy” and (A,B,AB) would be another.

AB is a notation that defines a superposition among two possible certain identities, where the certainty is only a potential as long as AB superposition is not collapsed into one of the certain options (A or B).

The Man said:
Given your assertion that AB is a superposition of A and B it would not be the same "Identity" as A or B. Thus there would be no redundant "Identity" in (A,B,AB).
Indeed there is no redundant id in DS (A,B,AB), but there is an uncertain id in DS (A,B,AB) because of AB superposition.


------------------------------------------


Here are the detailed example of k=0 to 2 of k-Uncertainty x k-Redundancy tree, and you can clearly see that AA or BB are not under Y-axis (that has no "," between symbols) or X-axis (that has "," between single symbols like "A" or group of symbols like "AB" ) of this tree:
Code:
0x0

(0)=()



1x1                                        
                                           
A * .                                        
                                           
(1) = (A)
(0) = ()

                                          
                                 
2X2

(AB,AB) (AB,A)  (AB,B)  (AB)    (A,A)   (B,B)   (A,B)   (A)     (B)     ()

A * *   A * *   A * .   A * .   A * *   A . .   A * .   A * .   A . .   A . .
  | |     | |     | |     | |     | |     | |     | |     | |     | |     | |
B *_*   B *_.   B *_*   B *_.   B ._.   B *_*   B ._*   B ._.   B *_.   B ._.

(2,2) = (AB,AB)
(2,1) = (AB,A),(AB,B)
(2,0) = (AB)
(1,1) = (A,A),(B,B),(A,B)
(1,0) = (A),(B)
(0,0) = ()
If you get k-Uncertainty x k-Redundancy tree, then plase try to define the general formula that returns the numbetr of DS of any given k-Uncertainty x k-Redundancy tree (k=0 to n, where n is some natural number).
 
Last edited:
jsfisher said:
Unfortunately, most of what Doron has to offer is either completely wrong or completely trivial. (His menorah diagrams fall into the later category.) Honest attempts to explore Doron's version of Mathematics with him quickly reveal the lack of significance and lack of correctness in so much of what he posts. He cannot accept that, and so he doesn't.
Please follow http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showpost.php?p=5935751&postcount=9841.

jsfisher said:
He has also convinced himself "recognition with respect to itself" means something.
Please see http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showpost.php?p=5935678&postcount=9840.
 
Last edited:
I believe you think so because I said that self-state has no identity at all.

But by definition 1, identity is exactly the recognition of branch x with respect to that has no identity at all, exactly as some color is identified with respect to transparency (not any color).

I recognize a certain color by contrast to absence of color?

You know there's more to distingusihing red from cyan than that.

But I confess, I've lost any confidence of being able to get at what you are about.
In your flux of terminology, I've realized that everything I thought I knew is just my clumsy interpretations.

As it stands now, I don't know what your most basic terms actually mean.

I see so basic a term as "Non-Local" is uded in a number of different ways and I can't fit those puzzle pieces together.

"self-state"
"identity"
I don't know how you are using these words.
So I can't presume I can make any intelligent evaluation.
 
"self-state"
"identity"
I don't know how you are using these words.
So I can't presume I can make any intelligent evaluation.

"self-state" has no identity ("transparency") that enables the full expression of any identity (some "color").
 
Last edited:
I did. It doesn't address my points.

Please clearly write your points, all I see is that you say that you don't understand my posts, which is too general for meaningful reply.


For example:

By following http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showpost.php?p=5935199&postcount=9835 and my reply to The Man's remarks in http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showpost.php?p=5935751&postcount=9841, please write at least in the same detailed level as The Man does.

Really, can't you address the simplest of questions directly?

Here is the last version of my definitions:

Definition 1: Identity is x recognition with respect to itself.

Definition 2: Superposition is a simultaneous identity of x with respect to itself.

Definition 3: Non-superposition of identities allows certain x recognition with respect to itself.

Example: x=A , x=B

Definition 4: Superposition of identities does not allow certain x recognition with respect to itself.

Example: x=AB

Definition 5: Redundancy is a duplication of certain or uncertain identities, with respect to a given tree.

For example (A,A) , (B,B) , (AB,AB)


jsfisher said:
In what way is the term, property, different from your invented term, identity?
This is your question about the old version of Definition 1.

Do you see the word "property" in definition 1?

jsfisher said:
What are you trying to accomplish with this definition? Cardinality, for example, is a property of any set. Given two sets, both of which must have a cardinality property. Is one of them a copy of the other?
This is your question about the old version of Definition 2.

Do you see the word Copy in any definition of the new version?

jsfisher said:
What are you trying to accomplish with this definition. Everything has more than one property. How is the set {1,3} "uncertain" just because it has both cardinality and members?
This is your question about the old version of Definition 3.

In the new version x is a branch of k-Uncertainty x k-Redundancy tree.

In the new version I am talking about a superposition of x where Schrödinger's cat ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schrödinger's_cat ) clarifies the notion of a collapsed superposition of identities (which I call uncertain identity that is notated as AB of x identity) into a certain identity that is notated as A or B of x identity (again x is a branch of k-Uncertainty x k-Redundancy tree).


What is not understood here?
 
Last edited:
"self-state" has no identity ("transparency") that enables the full expression of any identity (some "color").

If that means what it seems to mean to me, I agree.

But that's because I'm interpreting "identity" as characteristics or essence.

But I'm very unsure that what I'm reading is what you mean.

What happens again and again is that I think I'm reading you correctly.
I think I'm getting somewhere in understanding.
But then you will make an assertion or use one of your terms in a way that just doesn't fit what I thought.
Then I'm confused.

I'll get back to you when or if I'm feeling a really understand.
 
If that means what it seems to mean to me, I agree.

But that's because I'm interpreting "identity" as characteristics or essence.

If you mean that x is identified by some fixed "essence", then self-state has no "essence", which enables the "room" for full expression of any possible "essence".

Am I clear now?
 
If you mean that x is identified by some fixed "essence", then self-state has no "essence", which enables the "room" for full expression of any possible "essence".

Am I clear now?

Sure. On this little piece of the puzzle we agree.

Which is why I say you have to have a what (Identity as the answer to the question "What is this?")
before you can have a How many.
Quantity always involves identity.
So elements merely in "Parallel" prior to identity bridging (or in other words: collection) do not have and are not quantities.

The action of Non-locality (relation) collects.
But Non-locality is also the independence of elements outside collection.
This is where the thing of non-locality gets confusing for me.

Perhaps what you are desiring from this Redundancy/Uncertainty matrix is to express degrees of certainty and uncertainty in identity and quantity.
You see the uncertainty as giving potentiality and a kind of freedom.
 
Last edited:
Please clearly write your points, all I see is that you say that you don't understand my posts, which is too general for meaningful reply.

I did. You ignored them. You, instead, began your tiresome "new terms for old" routine. I guess it is fair to assume you admit your original definitions were garbage. We can all agree on that.

You haven't addressed my objection to your "with respect to itself" nonsense.
 
I suggested:
Perhaps what you are desiring from this Redundancy/Uncertainty matrix is to express degrees of certainty and uncertainty in identity and quantity.
You see the uncertainty as giving potentiality and a kind of freedom.

Nah! That would be vacuous.

The Scene: Two cars are parked off a dirt road in the dessert.

NIck: "Is this all of it?"

Ivan hands him a briefcase.
Ivan: "Yes, open it"

The case is full of bundles of crisp, new $100 dollar bills.

Ivan "That's all ten grand."

Nick's cellphone chimes. He flips it open and puts it to his ear.

Nick: What? Counterfeit?

Nick confronts Ivan.
Nick: "These bills are bogus! I ought to shoot you right here!"

Ivan: Not so! Look for yourself!"

Nick examines the a couple of the bundles.

Ivan: "See?"

Nick pulls out his cellphone.
Nick: They look clean to me." He listens.

Nick turns to Ivan.
Nick: "What kind of game is this? Jello says your boss got bogus bills mixed in with the real stuff!"

Ivan: "Did you see anything that wasn't real?"

Nick: I wouldn't know. Jello says they're first rate counterfeits. You take this back to your boss and get the real stuff, all ten grand of real bills, no bogus.

Ivan: "But this is your ten grand. The identity of some bills is uncertain, but there are ten grand of them.
Look at this."

Ivan draws a diagram on the back of an envelope,
Ivan: Each point on a standing line is a bundle of bills. The vertical is the uncertainty. We don't know if that particular bundle is genuine bills.
Now the horizontal lines connecting the vertical ones are redundancy. They connect one ones we can count as genuine.
You see there are many ways we can draw this to measure the redundancy vs. the uncertainty, but when you see the big picture, you've got ten grand!"

Nick: "Huh? what are you talking about?"

Ivan: "OK the vertical is superposition. The horizontal is identity. The identity of some bundles is uncertain, but you see we account for that by this method. And you get your ten grand!"

Nick: "I don't know what the turnip you're talking about, but if you don't get me the genuine stuff, I'm going to give you a bullet for your suppository!

Mercifully, the encounter ends there before any such act of violence that would be contrary to Organic Mathematics.

Ivan shouts out his window as he drives away,
"You are stuck under serial only thinking!"

That's certainly a misunderstanding of whatever Redundancy/Uncertainty is supposed to be about, so I retract that lame suggestion.

I just couldn't pass up the opportunity to make a joke of it.

Now I'll slink back into the shadows till I get some clue of what it's really all about.
 
Last edited:
Jsfisher said:
I did. You ignored them. You, instead, began your tiresome "new terms for old" routine. I guess it is fair to assume you admit your original definitions were garbage. We can all agree on that.

Ok, after we all agree with you that it was garbage, can you move forward and air your view in details (at least like The Man) about http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showpost.php?p=5936359&postcount=9846 ?

Jsfisher said:
You haven't addressed my objection to your "with respect to itself" nonsense

It is very simple. We have a tree of identities, such that each branch has superposition of identities or non-superposition of identities, and we do not compare between the branches, or in other words, the identity level is known w.r.t a given branch (with respect to itself).

A branch can be, for example, Schrödinger's cat, which is in a superposition of Dead/Alive state with respect to itself, that if collapsed we get clearly dead or clearly alive cat w.r.t itself.

So uncertainty or certainty identification is known by x w.r.t itself, in this model.

On the contrary Redundancy is known only by comparing at least two branches, in this model.

So we get a tree of identities that its Y-axis is used to measure Uncertainty or Certainty and its X-axis is used to measure Redundancy or Uniqueness, as can be seen in the following example:
Code:
0x0

(0)=()



1x1                                        
                                           
A * .                                        
                                           
(1) = (A)
(0) = ()

                                          
                                 
2X2

(AB,AB) (AB,A)  (AB,B)  (AB)    (A,A)   (B,B)   (A,B)   (A)     (B)     ()

A * *   A * *   A * .   A * .   A * *   A . .   A * .   A * .   A . .   A . .
  | |     | |     | |     | |     | |     | |     | |     | |     | |     | |
B *_*   B *_.   B *_*   B *_.   B ._.   B *_*   B ._*   B ._.   B *_.   B ._.

(2,2) = (AB,AB)
(2,1) = (AB,A),(AB,B)
(2,0) = (AB)
(1,1) = (A,A),(B,B),(A,B)
(1,0) = (A),(B)
(0,0) = ()
 
Last edited:
Apathia said:
Mercifully, the encounter ends there before any such act of violence that would be contrary to Organic Mathematics.
If our goal is certain identity, we simply use the clear state of some ON as the global property of our desired system, but we are also aware that this desired system is not universal.

Bunny the rabbit escaped from the fox, because he was able to run in uncertain (unpredictable) zigzags.

Furthermore, his little heart did its job during the run because each heartbeat worked upon several scale levels of order and disorder ( http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showpost.php?p=5909248&postcount=9739 ).
 
Last edited:
If our goal is certain identity, we simply use the clear state of some ON as the global property of our desired system, but we are also aware that this desired system is not universal.

Bunny the rabbit escaped from the fox, because he was able to run in uncertain (unpredictable) zigzags.

Furthermore, his little heart did its job during the run because each heartbeat worked upon several scale levels of order and disorder ( http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showpost.php?p=5909248&postcount=9739 ).

Ah, so it is about
Uncertainty
Chaos
Improbability
Ignorance
Unpredictability
Ambiguity
Imprecision
Fogginess
Insecurity

This is what Organic Mathematics hopes to offer traditional Mathematics.

No wonder the mathematicians don't leap to grab it.
They see math as a tool to produce reliable quantities and information, even when probability is a part of that.
Their Chaos Theory serves as a means to an end of definite information.
The mathematics of quantum mechanics, handling the uncertainties through
equations of probabilities, arrives at reliable information.

Thing is mathematics already works with and around the uncertainties of nature with the goal of actionable, reliable information.
They don't want to stay in the fog. They want the landmarks that will help them negotiate through it.

The Redundancy/Uncertainty Matrix states in a stick figure way the obvious uncertainties in identity and quantity we find everyday,
but it doesn't add anything to Math and Science's tool kits to minimize those uncertainties.

Of course, far be it from me to argue that life isn't foggy.
And again, Identity isn't inherent. Mathematics is as much an act of creativity as it is discovery.
Agreed: Such systems aren't universal, and no system will ever be.

I recommend The Wisdom of Insecurity by Alan Watts and
Comfortable with Uncertainty by Pema Chodron
as the more practical presentations of how to live in uncertainty.

Bunny the rabbit escaped from the fox, because he was able to run in uncertain (unpredictable) zigzags.

Is that what you are doing so much here? Using imprecision and ambiguous definition to escape the math foxes?
Is that why it's so hard to catch your meaning?
Success! None of them know where you are.

And please don't throw me into the brier patch.
 
Last edited:
Jsfisher said:
I did. You ignored them. You, instead, began your tiresome "new terms for old" routine. I guess it is fair to assume you admit your original definitions were garbage. We can all agree on that.

Ok, after we all agree with you that it was garbage, can you move forward and air your view in details (at least like The Man) about http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showpost.php?p=5936359&postcount=9846 ?

Ok, let's start with this one:

Definition 1: Identity is x recognition with respect to itself.

I have already objected to the "with respect to itself." The phrase is without meaning. You responded with this:

It is very simple. We have a tree of identities, such that each branch has superposition of identities or non-superposition of identities, and we do not compare between the branches, or in other words, the identity level is known w.r.t a given branch (with respect to itself).

You have only added to the inadequacies of Definition 1 by introducing circular arguments. You attempted to define "identity" using the meaningless phrase, "with respect to itself", which, in turn, you attempt to explain by referring back to identities. That's a circle.

You have also added stipulations not in the original. You started with X being an arbitrary entity. Now, you have jumped into assumptions about "trees of identities." There is no basis for that in Definition 1.

As I mentioned in a post to Apathia, you are trying to reverse-engineer significance into something that has none.

A branch can be, for example, Schrödinger's cat, which is in a superposition of Dead/Alive state with respect to itself, that if collapsed we get clearly dead or clearly alive cat w.r.t itself.

You used "with respect to itself" twice in that snippet. Neither time did it mean anything. Upon examination, the cat is either dead or alive, period. "With respect to" is a comparative; death doesn't require comparison.

Tallness, on the other hand, can work with comparison. I may be tall in an absolute sense, or I may be tall with respect to you. In no way, however, am I tall with respect to myself. That is just a meaningless concept.


Words should mean something. Yours don't. And rather than just throwing new words at the definition and still not accomplishing anything, why not take a step back and develop concrete examples of what you are trying to capture. Do not use your menorah diagrams and such. You are too invested in them. Go with simpler things completely removed from OM.

What would be the identity of the number 2? Of the set, {2,{2}}? Of a bunch of bananas?
 
Last edited:
jsfisher said:
You started with X being an arbitrary entity. Now, you have jumped into assumptions about "trees of identities." There is no basis for that in Definition 1.

Jsfisher please see how x is defined in my last version in http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showpost.php?p=5935199&postcount=9835 and please follow it.

Jsfisher said:
You have only added to the inadequacies of Definition 1 by introducing circular arguments. You attempted to define "identity" using the meaningless phrase, "with respect to itself", which, in turn, you attempt to explain by referring back to identities. That's a circle.

It is not circular because Identity can be certain or uncertain.

It all depends on how x branch is identified with respect to itself, where x is in a superposition (uncertain identity) or not (certain identity).

Jsfisher said:
What would be the identity of the number 2? Of the set, {2,{2}}? Of a bunch of bananas?

2 is a certain number, but what if a number is also a superposition of several certain numbers?

{2,{2}} is a certain set, bur what if a set is also superposition of several certain sets.

A bunch of bananas is a certain bunch, but what if a bunch is a superposition of several certain bunches.

Jsfisher said:
Upon examination, the cat is either dead or alive, period.
This is only the certain state of Schrödinger's cat with respect to itself.

There is also the uncertain state of Schrödinger's cat with respect to itself.

Both are legitimate identities of the cat, where one is certain and the other is uncertain.

Jsfisher said:
Go with simpler things completely removed from OM.
Jsfisher said:
As I mentioned in a post to Apathia, you are trying to reverse-engineer significance into something that has none.

In other words, all you care is the certain case of ON.

Jsfisher said:
Words should mean something. Yours don't.
Only if by your reasoning meaning=certain.

But things are not limited to a certain meaning, if meaning is also a superposition of certain meanings.

Here are the detailed example of k=0 to 2 of k-Uncertainty x k-Redundancy tree, and you can clearly see that AA or BB are not under Y-axis (that has no "," between symbols) or X-axis (that has "," between single symbols like "A" or group of symbols like "AB" ) of this tree.

Jsfisher what exactly prevents from you to get a consistent framework like this?:
Code:
0x0

(0)=()



1x1                                        
                                           
A * .                                        
                                           
(1) = (A)
(0) = ()

                                          
                                 
2X2

(AB,AB) (AB,A)  (AB,B)  (AB)    (A,A)   (B,B)   (A,B)   (A)     (B)     ()

A * *   A * *   A * .   A * .   A * *   A . .   A * .   A * .   A . .   A . .
  | |     | |     | |     | |     | |     | |     | |     | |     | |     | |
B *_*   B *_.   B *_*   B *_.   B ._.   B *_*   B ._*   B ._.   B *_.   B ._.

(2,2) = (AB,AB)
(2,1) = (AB,A),(AB,B)
(2,0) = (AB)
(1,1) = (A,A),(B,B),(A,B)
(1,0) = (A),(B)
(0,0) = ()

Any appearance of that tree is called Distinction State (DS), where any DS is under a structure called Frame (F), for example: (AB,B) is a DS that is under (2,1) F.

The order in each DS or F has no significance (similar to {a,b}={b,a}) but any DS is the basis of any possible order (similar to the concept of Set as being the basis of permutations).

k=0 to n, where n is some natural number.

If you get k-Uncertainty x k-Redundancy tree, then plase try to define the general formula that returns the numbetr of DS of any given k-Uncertainty x k-Redundancy tree.
 
Last edited:
Apathia said:
Ah, so it is about
Uncertainty
Chaos
Improbability
Ignorance
Unpredictability
Ambiguity
Imprecision
Fogginess
Insecurity

It is also about the opposites of the words above, and also the superposition of them, which enables any desired mixture from the supermarket of certain or uncertain forms, where each form can be aslo partial AND global form of the desired system.

ONs are this supermarket and you are participator/observer of it.
 
Last edited:
jsfisher said:
You started with X being an arbitrary entity. Now, you have jumped into assumptions about "trees of identities." There is no basis for that in Definition 1.

Jsfisher please see how x is defined in my last version in http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showpost.php?p=5935199&postcount=9835 and please follow it.

Ok, so, we should now be working from this:

The considered mathematical structure is k-Uncertainty x k-Redundancy tree, where its Y-axis (a given branch of the given tree) is used in order to measure the Uncertainty (if > 1) of its branches, and its X-axis (of the given tree) is used in order to measure the Redundancy (if > 1) of its branches.

And your "x" is supposed to be one of those things? Well, that needs some groundwork before you can use it. Trees have definition in graph theory (and by application, computer science). You don't appear to be using the term that way, so (1) pick a different name for your term, and (2) define it.

Then, there's those uncertainty and redundancy things (with and without the k- prefix).

Jsfisher said:
You have only added to the inadequacies of Definition 1 by introducing circular arguments. You attempted to define "identity" using the meaningless phrase, "with respect to itself", which, in turn, you attempt to explain by referring back to identities. That's a circle.

It is not circular because Identity can be certain or uncertain.

It all depends on how x branch is identified with respect to itself, where x is in a superposition (uncertain identity) or not (certain identity).

Non sequiturs and evasions don't make "with respect to itself" meaningful.

Jsfisher said:
What would be the identity of the number 2? Of the set, {2,{2}}? Of a bunch of bananas?

2 is a certain number, but what if a number is also a superposition of several certain numbers?

Then it wouldn't be the number 2. It would be the "superposition of several certain numbers". You didn't answer my question, though.

{2,{2}} is a certain set, bur what if a set is also superposition of several certain sets.

Then it wouldn't be the set {2,{2}}. And again, you didn't answer my question.

A bunch of bananas is a certain bunch, but what if a bunch is a superposition of several certain bunches.

And yet again, you didn't answer my question.

Jsfisher said:
Upon examination, the cat is either dead or alive, period.
This is only the certain state of Schrödinger's cat with respect to itself.

No, it is not. It is "the state" where the cat is either dear or alive, period. It is never dead with respect to itself, nor is it ever alive with respect to itself. "With respect to itself" is a meaningless sequence of four words you insist on inserting in the oddest of places.

There is also the uncertain state of Schrödinger's cat with respect to itself.

No, for the reason already stated.

Both are legitimate identities of the cat, where one is certain and the other is uncertain.

Aha! So, without some of your meaningless phrases, you are claiming that "dead" and "alive" are possible identities for the cat, correct?


Jsfisher said:
Go with simpler things completely removed from OM.
Jsfisher said:
As I mentioned in a post to Apathia, you are trying to reverse-engineer significance into something that has none.

In other words, all you care is the certain case of ON.

Nope. The comment of mine you quoted first was meant as guidance to you. Working with non-OM examples may help you stay focused on something long enough to produce a useful answer--something you haven't been able to do with any OM-specific examples.

The second quoted comment of mine was an observation. This current "help me with a few definitions" is nothing new for you. From your history, one can draw conclusions of intent and outcome. I have done that.

In neither case, however, is there any basis to conclude where any of my cares lie with respect to ON. (Note, by the way, the correct use of "with respect to".)

Jsfisher said:
Words should mean something. Yours don't.
Only if by your reasoning meaning=certain.

I see we are back to the "attack the messenger" because Doron doesn't like the message. You, Doron, asked for help with some definitions. If you were sincere in that, then accept that your definitions aren't perfect. You already admitted the first batch were garbage.

So, do you really want that help, or is this just another vehicle for you to practice your infantile playground taunts?
 
Last edited:
The Man, I do not use http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Superposition_principle for Superposition definition if A+B = AB by this meanning:

Doron, I am certain that your assertion above, where you claim that your “Superposition” does not “use”, well, superposition, surprises no one here.

AB is, for example, a superposition between A=dead cat + B=alive cat, which is an uncertain id, that can be collapsed into certain identity A=dead cat or certain identity B=alive cat ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schrödinger's_cat ).

I’m quite familiar with the Schrödinger's cat thought experiment, while obviously you are not. The cat is never in “a superposition of between A=dead cat + B=alive cat…”. Again uncertainty, even about the cat’s status, is not a superposition of the cat’s status (“A=dead cat + B=alive cat”), that is the whole point of that thought experiment. A point you either missed or simply ignored.




I’m also quite familiar with Quantum Superposition, which (as I’m sure wont surprise anyone except perhaps you) is actually based on the superposition principle. So I suggest you actually read your own references.


but be aware that OM's superposition is not mrasured by complex or real numbers, which are some certain ids (like certain A or B ids if AB superposition is collapsed).

By your own assertions above “OM's superposition” doesn’t even involve superposition, so as usual your “OM” has simply “collapsed” in upon itself.


AB notation means that we do not know for certain the identification of x branch of some k-Uncertainty x k-Redundancy tree (where identity A or identity B are certain ids) because A and B are in superposition (x identity is not collapsed into certain identity A or certain identity B).

So now you’re back to “uncertainty”. Which as I said before is already established, to varying degrees, by the fact that “x” is a variable and represented by the values x can take as the set X like (A,B). Your AB “identity” is completely superfluous since it doesn’t actually represent anything (like superposition) other then the simple fact that “x” is a variable and the values it can take which is already represented by the variable x and the set X of the values it can take. Once again your OM is a poor substitute for actual mathematics

AB is a notation that defines a superposition among two possible certain identities, where the certainty is only a potential as long as AB superposition is not collapsed into one of the certain options (A or B).

No Doron it (as usual) just defines your fantasies which by your own assertion “do not use” superposition.

Indeed there is no redundant id in DS (A,B,AB), but there is an uncertain id in DS (A,B,AB) because of AB superposition.

See, now was that so hard? You could have just answered the question when I asked directly if AB was a different “identity” than A or B.

------------------------------------------


Here are the detailed example of k=0 to 2 of k-Uncertainty x k-Redundancy tree, and you can clearly see that AA or BB are not under Y-axis (that has no "," between symbols) or X-axis (that has "," between single symbols like "A" or group of symbols like "AB" ) of this tree:

So what? Just because you do not include “AA or BB” in your “tree” does not make such a superposition “impossible” as you claimed before, of course we have already established that your “OM's superposition” does not “use”, well, superposition.


Code:
0x0

(0)=()



1x1                                        
                                           
A * .                                        
                                           
(1) = (A)
(0) = ()

                                          
                                 
2X2

(AB,AB) (AB,A)  (AB,B)  (AB)    (A,A)   (B,B)   (A,B)   (A)     (B)     ()

A * *   A * *   A * .   A * .   A * *   A . .   A * .   A * .   A . .   A . .
  | |     | |     | |     | |     | |     | |     | |     | |     | |     | |
B *_*   B *_.   B *_*   B *_.   B ._.   B *_*   B ._*   B ._.   B *_.   B ._.

(2,2) = (AB,AB)
(2,1) = (AB,A),(AB,B)
(2,0) = (AB)
(1,1) = (A,A),(B,B),(A,B)
(1,0) = (A),(B)
(0,0) = ()
If you get k-Uncertainty x k-Redundancy tree, then plase try to define the general formula that returns the numbetr of DS of any given k-Uncertainty x k-Redundancy tree (k=0 to n, where n is some natural number).

Let’s have a look at the “uncertainty” and “redundancy” in each of your “2X2” examples, shall we.

“(2,2) = (AB,AB)”: “uncertainty” = 2, “redundancy”=1. Your “(2,2) simply replaces each element with the number of letters in that element.

“(2,1) = (AB,A),(AB,B)”: “uncertainty” = 1, “redundancy”=0. Your “(2,1) simply replaces each element with the number of letters in that element.

“(2,0) = (AB)”: “uncertainty” = 1, “redundancy”=0. Your “(2,0) simply replaces the one element with the number of letters in that element and adds a “0” representation for the letters of a single element that is simply not present.

“(1,1) = (A,A),(B,B)”,: “uncertainty” = 0, “redundancy”=1. Your “(1,1) simply replaces each element with the number of letters in that element.

“(1,1) =” “(A,B)”: “uncertainty” = 0, “redundancy”=0. Your “(1,1) simply replaces each element with the number of letters in that element.

“(1,0) = (A),(B)”: “uncertainty” = 0, “redundancy”=0. Your “(1,0) simply replaces the one element with the number of letters in that element and adds a representation for the letters of a single element that is simply not present.

“(0,0) = ()”: “uncertainty” = 0, “redundancy”=0 , hey look your “(0,0)” might actually represent your “uncertainty” and “redundancy” of the empty set. However the indication would be (like before) that you were just representing the lack letters in the two elements you were expecting, that the empty set does not have.




So out of the ten examples of your “2x2” “k-Uncertainty x k-Redundancy tree”:

Only one has an “uncertainty” of 2, none have a “redundancy” of 2.

Only 4 have any “uncertainty” and only 3 have any “redundancy”.

4 have no “uncertainty” or “redundancy”.

So beside there being very little and often no “uncertainty” and/or “redundancy” in your “2x2” “k-Uncertainty x k-Redundancy tree”, the only thing that is “2x2” in your “2x2” “k-Uncertainty x k-Redundancy tree” are your ‘connect the dots’ drawings where you simply add dots when there is just one element and even no elements in your examples just so you can pretend there is something “2x2” in each example.

Your so “called Distinction State (DS)” simply represent the number of letters in each element of your examples with you putting an indication of “0” for elements that are not in your examples just so you can pretend there are always 2 elements in each example.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Back
Top Bottom