Deeper than primes

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sympathic said:
A line is not composed of points it contains points.
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No, a line is a non-local atom and contains exactly 0 points.

A point is a local atom and contains exactly 0 points.

Both of them are existing things, but their cardinality is 0, exactly as {} is an existing thing but its cardinality = 0 (notated as |{}|=0).
 
doronshadmi said:
No, a line is a non-local atom and contains exactly 0 points.
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So, you're using your own definitions for 'line' and 'point'. Care to share them?

A point is a local atom and contains exactly 0 points.

Both of them are existing things, but their cardinality is 0, exactly as {} is an existing thing but its cardinality = 0 (notated as |{}|=0).
Click to expand...

If I have one apple, does that mean I have exactly 0 apples?


ETA: How long is the line on which the numbers in the following series appear: {1, 1/2, 1/4, 1/8, 1/16, 1/32, ... } ?
 
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realpaladin said:
That 7-page thingy of yours?
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OM actually needs exactly 0 pages in order to work, exactly because it is based on direct perception, where direct perception is not a thought, but it is the natural and simplest basis of any thought.

Your noisy mind goes exactly in the opposite direction and values things according to the amount of the verbal blab la bla …actions that are needed in order to describe them.

As long as your mind values things according to the level of the noise that they make (and in this case, the number of the pages that are needed in order to describe them) you can't get OM, because direct perception is equivalent to silence itself, and silence itself is not any thought about silence.
 
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zooterkin said:
If I have one apple, does that mean I have exactly 0 apples?
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No, it means the it is divided into exactly 0 sub-apples.

1 is for apple's exictence.

0 is for apple's sub-parts.

Again, {} is an existing thing but its cardinality = 0, and notated as |{}|=0.


zooterkin said:
ETA: How long is the line on which the numbers in the following series appear: {1, 1/2, 1/4, 1/8, 1/16, 1/32, ... } ?
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How do you measure length, in this case?
 
To all posters,

My suggestion to you is to read very carefully http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4882440&postcount=4707 as an essential tool that helps to understand OM better (at least at the level of thoughts).

If and only if you grasp that post by direct perception, you can start to understand why Kindergarten is the best place to start with OM's understanding and development.
 
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realpaladin said:
When does something original pop up?
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Exactly when you are aware of the source of any thought, which is exactly the direct perception of the silent state of your mind.

This silent state is the origin of any new idea.
 
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doronshadmi said:
No, a line is a non-local atom and contains exactly 0 points.

A point is a local atom and contains exactly 0 points.

Both of them are existing things, but their cardinality is 0, exactly as {} is an existing thing but its cardinality = 0 (notated as |{}|=0).
Click to expand...

A line contains a type 2 infinity number of points, a point contains exactly 1 point.
 
doronshadmi said:
As long as your mind values things according to the level of the noise that they make (and in this case, the number of the pages that are needed in order to describe them) you can't get OM, because direct perception is equivalent to silence itself, and silence itself is not any thought about silence.
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You are too silly with words; someone can tell me this:

To experience silence, you have to:

* Go to a place that is shielded from outside interference
* Think as little as possible
* Experience it.

Alternatively:

* Have an hour in a floatation tank.

Any simple person can convey the concept of silence. If OM is so simple, why can you not convey the concept?
 
doronshadmi said:

Exactly when you are aware of the source of any thought, which is exactly the direct perception of the silent state of your mind.

This silent state is the origin of any new idea.
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Toning down mine.

No it is not.
 
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realpaladin said:
A line contains a type 2 infinity number of points, a point contains exactly 1 point.
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You mix up between 1 as the measurement unit for existence, and 1 as the number of elements along some atom (where atom is composed by exactly 0 sub-elements).

Your misunderstanding of what is written above is a direct result of your inability to use direct perception at the basis of your reasoning.
 
realpaladin said:
You are too silly with words; someone can tell me this:

To experience silence, you have to:

* Go to a place that is shielded from outside interference
* Think as little as possible
* Experience it.

Alternatively:

* Have an hour in a floatation tank.

Any simple person can convey the concept of silence. If OM is so simple, why can you not convey the concept?
Click to expand...

This is a good example of a person that uses noisy bla bla bla ... in order to get silence.
 
I'll repeat the question you ignored:

zooterkin said:
So, you're using your own definitions for 'line' and 'point'. Care to share them?
Click to expand...


doronshadmi said:
A point is a local atom and contains exactly 0 points.
Click to expand...

doronshadmi said:
No, it means the it is divided into exactly 0 sub-apples.
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So, you're using the word 'point' to mean two different things? A 'point' and a 'sub-point'? Wouldn't it be better to use two different words?

ETA: How long is the line on which the numbers in the following series appear: {1, 1/2, 1/4, 1/8, 1/16, 1/32, ... } ?
Click to expand...

How do you measure length, in this case?
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In units.
 
Let me help you by analogy:

A 'sack with apples' is not a 'sack with apples' without either the 'sack' or the 'apples'.

I can say the 'sack with apples' contains 10 'apples' and I can say 10 'apples' are contained in the 'sack with apples'.

I can not say 10 'apples' make together a 'sack with apples' because they do not encompass the 'sack' amongst them.

So, a line (heck, even a line-segment) contains a type 2 infinity number of points, because it is the sum of all points defined by the collection of points defined by at least two points on the line (line-segment).

But a type 2 infinity amount of points together do not make a line (line-segment), because they are not all points of that line.

All that talk of silence and not a word he hears through it.
 
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doronshadmi said:
You mix up between 1 as the measurement unit for existence, and 1 as the number of elements along some atom (where atom is composed by exactly 0 sub-elements).

Your misunderstanding of what is written above is a direct result of your inability to use direct perception at the basis of your reasoning.
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Measurement? Since when do we measure things? Have we crossed over to physics? We are doing math here. That means counting.

The existence does not matter.

Proof:

a point contains exactly 1 point that may or may not exist.

Still 1
 
realpaladin said:
Let me help you by analogy:

A 'sack with apples' is not a 'sack with apples' without either the 'sack' or the 'apples'.

I can say the 'sack with apples' contains 10 'apples' and I can say 10 'apples' are contained in the 'sack with apples'.

I can not say 10 'apples' make together a 'sack with apples' because they do not encompass the 'sack' amongst them.

So, a line (heck, even a line-segment) contains a type 2 infinity number of points, because it is the sum of all points defined by the collection of points defined by at least two points on the line (line-segment).

But a type 2 infinity amount of points together do not make a line (line-segment), because they are not all points of that line.

All that talk of silence and not a word he hears through it.
Click to expand...

The existence of the sack does not depend on how many things are gathered by it.
 
realpaladin said:
Measurement? Since when do we measure things? Have we crossed over to physics? We are doing math here. That means counting.

The existence does not matter.

Proof:

a point contains exactly 1 point that may or may not exist.

Still 1
Click to expand...

A point (which is an atom) does not contain anything exactly as {} does not contain anything.
 
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