Deeper than primes

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Hi ddt,

Really a great work !
Thank you for the 5 hours of computing or(n).
You are the leader today of this computation on the planet of Earth..

Did you have in advance the program for the partitions ?
No, I didn't have that in advance. So I've been tinkering with how to do that efficiently. My first algorithm just generated a big list of all partitions, but that ran out of heap space at n=64. So as a next try, I made a version with a recursive generator that ran in a separate thread - so that one still had O(n^2) space requirements. My third try was an iterative version of that without the multi-threading but still with the O(n^2) space requirement because of the emulation of the stackframes, and in my fourth try I eliminated the stackframes and so I got the O(n) space requirement - which is also the minimum possible.

I also tried another algorithm I found on the internet, which claims to be the most time efficient, but that one runs actually slower than the one I made - basically because it constructs a partition in as a list 4 = 2 + 1 + 1, whereas your algorithm needs it in the form (2, 1, 0, 0). The conversion between the two makes it 50% slower. So my algorithm is actually very fast :). I did some profiling and I conclude from that that the actual calculations are dwarfed, in terms of the time used, by the function calls. :jaw-dropp

But I'm glad that Java has BigIntegers, so I don't have to program those. :D
(oh, and a little optimization I overlooked: skipping the g(Or(i), a_i) factors where a_i == 0 cuts execution time in half :)).
 

Yep, that's the one I found. I implemented algorithm ZS1, and it was slower than my own :(

First, some Java technicalities: I implemented it using the Iterator interface. That means you have to make two methods:
1) hasNext() which reports if there's a next element in the list;
2) next() which actually gives the next element.
I put all the actual calculation in hasNext(); if it finds a next partition, it reports 'true', but it also has that next partition prepared and well. The implementation of next() only entails returning that partition, and two checks before that if one was found or if we first have to find the next one (in case next() is called twice in a row without a hasNext() in between).

So color me skeptical when the built-in Java profiling said he spent equal amount in both methods. Then I put in time counters myself in the code, and this is what it reported for a run calculating partitions of 75:
time in hasNext: 10828831745 8118265
time in next: 10659977218 8118263​
The first number is the nanoseconds, the second the number of calls.

My implementation of the ZS1 algorithm from the paper gives:
time in convert: 10953318714 8118263
time in hasNext: 10293843313 8118265
time in next: 10072671076 8118263​
The extra method 'convert' is needed to convert the result to the right format.
For the partition 4 = 2 + 1 + 1, the ZS1 algorithm gives the list (2, 1, 1), and I have to convert that to the list (2, 1, 0, 0). As you see, that costs equal time to any of the other two methods.

My conclusion of this is, that the time needed for the actual calculations are trifle compared to the overhead of the function calls. It would be a nice experiment to rewrite the stuff in C or C++ to see if that works better :).

Oh, and I already threw out most of the other overhead. The partitions I return are simple integer arrays, no fancy objects.
 
Look, folks, Doron believes he had found the SECRET OF MATHEMATICS, the one which had eluded Euclid, Gauss, Galois, Euler, and all the rest. They were all idiots. He's a genius.

Yes, Doron's "math" (such as it is) is wrong, as any first-year undergrad in math (at the latest) can tell. Actually, in most cases it isn't even wrong -- it is just meaningless gibberish. "2+2=5" can be proven wrong. "The invariant vector over the doronistic field of the super new triangular mathematic eigenvalue always has a doron-logic super-truth value of 17" (or the equivalent) cannot be proven wrong, since it's completely meaningless, and a statement has to mean something to be either right or wrong. (This, by the way, is the real reason cranks always proclaim proudly that "nobody has them wrong".)

But there is no arguing doron out of it any more than there is arguing with a psychotic and explaining to him the alien reptilians aren't really out to get him. Every counter-argument is just dismissed as either the work of midgets, too stupid to understand his towering genius, or else the works of those in the conspiracy, of envious mathematicians out to rob him of his just reward as the founder of REAL mathematics.

Logic and evidence are all on your side, of course, but they are, as is well known, completely powerless against self-delusion. Doron will, with all probability, go to his grave still believing he is the greatest mathematician who ever lived, and that he only failed to get recognized due to the envy and stupidity of his unappreciating age.
 
Look, folks, Doron believes he had found the SECRET OF MATHEMATICS, the one which had eluded Euclid, Gauss, Galois, Euler, and all the rest. They were all idiots. He's a genius.

Many of your other fellow posters have managed to actually bring reasoned argumentation to this discussion with informative feedback. You would do well to do the same. If you've no substantive input of your own to add to this discussion keep your asinine jeering to yourself.
 
Look, folks, Doron believes he had found the SECRET OF MATHEMATICS, the one which had eluded Euclid, Gauss, Galois, Euler, and all the rest. They were all idiots. He's a genius.

Yes, Doron's "math" (such as it is) is wrong, as any first-year undergrad in math (at the latest) can tell. Actually, in most cases it isn't even wrong -- it is just meaningless gibberish. "2+2=5" can be proven wrong. "The invariant vector over the doronistic field of the super new triangular mathematic eigenvalue always has a doron-logic super-truth value of 17" (or the equivalent) cannot be proven wrong, since it's completely meaningless, and a statement has to mean something to be either right or wrong. (This, by the way, is the real reason cranks always proclaim proudly that "nobody has them wrong".)

But there is no arguing doron out of it any more than there is arguing with a psychotic and explaining to him the alien reptilians aren't really out to get him. Every counter-argument is just dismissed as either the work of midgets, too stupid to understand his towering genius, or else the works of those in the conspiracy, of envious mathematicians out to rob him of his just reward as the founder of REAL mathematics.

Logic and evidence are all on your side, of course, but they are, as is well known, completely powerless against self-delusion. Doron will, with all probability, go to his grave still believing he is the greatest mathematician who ever lived, and that he only failed to get recognized due to the envy and stupidity of his unappreciating age.


Hi Skeptic,

Organic Mathematics is an extension to the discovery of Galois about unification of construction of drawing with a ruler and a compass.Now apply to all Mathematics branches in term of locality and non locality . I am glad that today it is possible to have open discussion about the value of OM. As you know Galois die in the age of 21 without recognition.

Have you seen already my presentation at Sweden ?

Moshe:boxedin:
 
Hi ddt,

Really a great work !
Thank you for the 5 hours of computing or(n).
You are the leader today of this computation on the planet of Earth..

Did you have in advance the program for the partitions ?
No, I didn't have that in advance. So I've been tinkering with how to do that efficiently. My first algorithm just generated a big list of all partitions, but that ran out of heap space at n=64. So as a next try, I made a version with a recursive generator that ran in a separate thread - so that one still had O(n^2) space requirements. My third try was an iterative version of that without the multi-threading but still with the O(n^2) space requirement because of the emulation of the stackframes, and in my fourth try I eliminated the stackframes and so I got the O(n) space requirement - which is also the minimum possible.

I also tried another algorithm I found on the internet, which claims to be the most time efficient, but that one runs actually slower than the one I made - basically because it constructs a partition in as a list 4 = 2 + 1 + 1, whereas your algorithm needs it in the form (2, 1, 0, 0). The conversion between the two makes it 50% slower. So my algorithm is actually very fast :). I did some profiling and I conclude from that that the actual calculations are dwarfed, in terms of the time used, by the function calls. :jaw-dropp

But I'm glad that Java has BigIntegers, so I don't have to program those. :D
(oh, and a little optimization I overlooked: skipping the g(Or(i), a_i) factors where a_i == 0 cuts execution time in half :)).

This is really beautiful ddt
Do you want to write a common paper with me
about the formula and your algorithm.

Best
Moshe:blush:
 
Hi Skeptic,

Organic Mathematics is an extension to the discovery of Galois about unification of construction of drawing with a ruler and a compass.Now apply to all Mathematics branches in term of locality and non locality . I am glad that today it is possible to have open discussion about the value of OM. As you know Galois die in the age of 21 without recognition.

Have you seen already my presentation at Sweden ?

Moshe:boxedin:

Don't bother, Moshe, not everyone on JREF is nice. Skeptic isn't here to participate in an actual discussion.
 
Ok, now having waded through the Sweden presentation videos, I think I understand what MosheKlein means by distinction. Let me play this back to MosheKlein for his reaction:

First off, the concept of number being used here has some underlying reference to things, often implicit. You don't just consider 3 as an abstract mathematical construct; there must be 3 things of one sort or another. Beads on a string has been the frequent example in this thread.

Each thing is presumed to have some identity, but the identity may be unknown to use. Distinction refers to the possible ways in which we can distinguish (or not) among those things.

Let's say we have 2 things, with identities A and B. If we don't know which is which, the best we can say is one is either A or B and the other is either B or A. (This would be the superposition of identities that's been mentioned once or twice in this thread.) If we know the identity of one of the things, then by the process of elimination we know the identity of the other.

So, for 2 things, there are 2 distinctions: (AB, AB) and (A, B).

For 3 things, the claim is there are 3 distinctions, ranging from knowing nothing, something, or everything: (ABC, ABC, ABC), (A, BC, BC), and (A, B, C).


How am I doing, MosheKlein?

You are doing great !
I am glad that I made the travel to Sweden !

sincerely
Moshe:p
 
Since this would be a part of the material you already admitted you don't understand, there's really no reason to believe you know what it does or does not explain, now is there?

jsfisher,



n=2 to ∞

k=n-1

For each partition of the form (k+1) the +1 part is always a unique id.



In order to understand it let us start from n=2

(1+1)
(2,2)
((1),1)

You can see that under partition (1+1) of n=2, there are two cases.

One is non-distinct and represented by (2,2), and the other is the case (k+1) and it is
represented as ((1),1).



Now let us examine n=3

(1+1+1)
(3,3,3)

(2+1) is the (k+1) case of n=3
(2,2,1)
(((1),1),1)



The (k+1) case holds for any n>1.

Therefore the +1 of partition (3+1) of n=4 represents a unique id, and it is consistent with partition (1+1) of n=2, and with partition (2+1) of n=3.

Here is partition (3+1) of n=4

(3+1)
((3, 3, 3), 1)
(((2, 2), 1), 1)
((((1), 1), 1), 1)

If you read very carefully this post, I believe that you will get the consistency of partition (k+1) for any given n.
 
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Look, folks, Doron believes he had found the SECRET OF MATHEMATICS, the one which had eluded Euclid, Gauss, Galois, Euler, and all the rest. They were all idiots. He's a genius.

Yes, Doron's "math" (such as it is) is wrong, as any first-year undergrad in math (at the latest) can tell. Actually, in most cases it isn't even wrong -- it is just meaningless gibberish. "2+2=5" can be proven wrong. "The invariant vector over the doronistic field of the super new triangular mathematic eigenvalue always has a doron-logic super-truth value of 17" (or the equivalent) cannot be proven wrong, since it's completely meaningless, and a statement has to mean something to be either right or wrong. (This, by the way, is the real reason cranks always proclaim proudly that "nobody has them wrong".)

But there is no arguing doron out of it any more than there is arguing with a psychotic and explaining to him the alien reptilians aren't really out to get him. Every counter-argument is just dismissed as either the work of midgets, too stupid to understand his towering genius, or else the works of those in the conspiracy, of envious mathematicians out to rob him of his just reward as the founder of REAL mathematics.

Logic and evidence are all on your side, of course, but they are, as is well known, completely powerless against self-delusion. Doron will, with all probability, go to his grave still believing he is the greatest mathematician who ever lived, and that he only failed to get recognized due to the envy and stupidity of his unappreciating age.

Enjoy your uniqueness.
 
Don't bother, Moshe, not everyone on JREF is nice. Skeptic isn't here to participate in an actual discussion.

Dear AkuManiMani ,

Thank you !

During ICM2006 F.Gauss was chosen by the members of IMU as the great Mathematicians of all time !

For more then 2000 years there was an interesting problem in Mathematics. Is it possible to divide an angel to 3 equal parts by using of a ruler and a compass. E.Galois notices that by construction with a ruler and a compass we solve quadratic or linear equation. Using this unification he could prove that it is impossible to divide an angel of 60 degrees to 20 degrees since cos(20) solve equation of degree 3 which can't be reduce to degree 2. Despite this great discovery he could not accepted to high study in mathematics !

OM discover that it is possible to unify all area of Mathematics ( Set, Logic, Topology , etc ) in term of locality and non locality. The first step is accepting the new notion :"The distinction of a number".

Sincerely
Moshe:blush:
 
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Generous of you, Moshe, but I have no relation with a local kindergarten which would welcome your demonstration.

So perhaps you could share a typical interaction via a simple dialog.
For example what I did in the Paddy Post.
You describe your set up then give Paddy's response to each situation.

That way you could illustrate the typical way a pre-schooler thinks and how that relates to OM.

If you could do this, it would certainly be more economic and less time consuming than you flying to America. Also you'd be able to cut to the chase rather than waiting for little kids to make the demonstration you expect.


I don't understand, what is the problem to fly to America( I will be in a vocation from the kindergardens in July / August) for a good meeting with young childrens concerning Mathematics. And please don't worry about the money..;)
 
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You are doing great !
I am glad that I made the travel to Sweden !


Ok, then you and I have reached a common understanding of what you mean by distinction.

Why isn't (AB, AC, BC) among the possibilities for 3?

Why isn't (AB, ABC, ABC) among the possibilities for 3?
 
Ok, then you and I have reached a common understanding of what you mean by distinction.

Why isn't (AB, AC, BC) among the possibilities for 3?

Why isn't (AB, ABC, ABC) among the possibilities for 3?

very good jsfisher !


Because the real identity of the beads ( in my sweden presentation)
is not important in the sense of permutation:

(a,b,c)=(b,a,c) etc

so (AB,AC,BC) have no real meaning in distinction.

Did I made myself clear to you ?

Moshe:blush:
 
very good jsfisher !


Because the real identity of the beads ( in my sweden presentation)
is not important in the sense of permutation:

(a,b,c)=(b,a,c) etc

so (AB,AC,BC) have no real meaning in distinction.

Did I made myself clear to you ?

(AB, AC, BC) isn't a permutation of any of your cases. Nor is (AB, ABC, ABC). Both examples illustrate cases where some information is known about the identity of each bead. Why are these not valid distinctions?
 
Ok, then you and I have reached a common understanding of what you mean by distinction.

Why isn't (AB, AC, BC) among the possibilities for 3?

Why isn't (AB, ABC, ABC) among the possibilities for 3?

Jsfisher,

You can invent your Organic Numbers if you wish.

All you have to do is to define a consistent way to use Distinction as their property.

In my case, I used Distinction by construct the next n forms with the previous forms that belong the values that are less than n, starting from n=2 and moving forward according to a certain principle (that can be replaced by another principle, or even mixed up with several principles).

The principle of my construction is clearly shown in http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4852892&postcount=4112 and an explanation about (3+1), which is consistent with my construction case, is given in http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4853391&postcount=4131 .


By using Distinction, you can invent different Organic Numbers, as follows:

n=2

(1+1)
(2,2)
((1),2)
((1),1)



n=3

(1+1+1)
(3,3,3)

(2+1)
((2,2),3)
((2,2),2)
((2,2),1)
(((1),2),3)
(((1),2),2)
(((1),2),1)
(((1),1),3)
((1),1),2)
((1),1),1)

I leave you to draw n=4 according to this construction, but also in this more complex case, Distinction is used as a main principle, and this is the essence of Organic Numbers, weather they are constructed as I first introduced them, or they are constructed differently from my first introduction of them.
 
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