Debunking Noah, and I need some help

[David Swidler]

Mudcat, tell your Mom this Orthodox Rabbi gives her permission not to understand the flood narrative as history.

I want to elaborate on this. You might want to suggest she consider what the story is trying to tell her as opposed to whether it happened the way the text tells it. The historicity of Genesis narrative was never the point. More recent believers were simply never taught that.

 

[Aridas]

Here's a few off the top of my head.

A worldwide flood would have altered salinity levels, killing off all sorts of aquatic life and generally messing with the ocean ecosystem.

Where did all the water go after the flood? If it simply evaporated off, it would have to go somewhere. Not to mention that after it evaporated, the whole world would have been covered in salt. How on earth that's going to sustain a chain of eucalyptus trees to get koalas to Australia is beyond me.

No modern animals being fossilised at the lowest levels of strata.

What on earth did all the herbivores eat? There would have been no surviving plant life, begging the question of how they survived to their modern day locations.

Also, what on earth did the carnivores eat? The only reasonable explanation I can think of is that they carried an enormous sack of miraculously preserved meat.

/braindump

To note, this does just scratch the surface of things that require miracles to reconcile, but thank you.

Beautifully put and I would like to second this sentiment, with all respect to your mother.

I would agree, unless they bring it up, in the first place.

I love it how every person on the planet was evil except for Noah and his lot. I ask believers if they really think that some monk in Tibet was evil. They reply that the ones that weren't were taken into Heaven by God. I then remind them that you can't get into Heaven unless you believe in God in advance. They then get grumpy.

There are workarounds, like... "people who never heard the Word of God will be judged on their actions." This is pretty much as much unsupported bull as "All dead babies go to heaven," but hey, pleasant nonsense.

How does she reconcile Genesis 1 with Genesis 2?

Probably the standard "had made" which doesn't demand to be interpreted in order for Genesis 2.

 

[dafydd]

This is pretty much as much unsupported bull as "All dead babies go to heaven," but hey, pleasant nonsense.

They used to go to Limbo but The Catholic Church abolished that a few years ago. I wonder If the Pope has informed god yet?

 

[Lowpro]

I'm not familiar with creationist fantards... I take it he's an established figure in their camp?

Safartis is one of AiG's "scientists" whom they use for their appeals to authority. The guy is a serial liar, and when he's caught he just berates whoever is challenging him, he doesn't even try to win with data.

He's the friggin' worst.

 

[dafydd]

What about Noah's wife, Joan Of Arc?

 

[David Swidler]

What about Noah's wife, Joan Of Arc?

Can you trust the answer? There's always someone with a stake in it.

 

[tsig]

Right now I am debunking the parcGod out of the global flood model, if I could have some help with the local flood model (which she'll probably use to worm out of critically thinking about what she's trying to push onto her offspring) that would be fantastic. Thanks in advance.

Has she undergone any events that might have triggered this sudden fervor?

 

[Aridas]

They used to go to Limbo but The Catholic Church abolished that a few years ago. I wonder If the Pope has informed god yet?

It's far from solely a Catholic belief. An old fundamentalist Christian friend of mine told me, with great conviction, that her Bible study had concluded, based nearly solely on their view of Jesus, that Jesus wouldn't let babies and small children go to hell, so he takes them to heaven. I pointed out a few ways how this wasn't a historical or Biblical belief, but... she actively admitted to setting faith above reason.

 

[kedo1981]

You’ll not be able to use facts to change her mind.
I would just tell her to shut with this bible thumper crazy crap or I’ll lock you away in nursing home ASAP.

 

[Mudcat]

Has she undergone any events that might have triggered this sudden fervor?

3 years back, almost 4 years, her husband had a seizure while driving his truck and got into a lethal accident with a tree. He was dead before the neighbors even got a chance to call for help, but they at least managed to pull him out before the truck caught on fire (which is something I guess).

So in a word: Desperation.

Before this she wasn't any more religious than I am.

 

[Cainkane1]

She'll just go to answersingenesis and drop that creationist nonsense on you. You may have to accept her the way she is.

 

[dafydd]

3 years back, almost 4 years, her husband had a seizure while driving his truck and got into a lethal accident with a tree. He was dead before the neighbors even got a chance to call for help, but they at least managed to pull him out before the truck caught on fire (which is something I guess).

So in a word: Desperation.

Before this she wasn't any more religious than I am.

It takes different people in different ways. When my wife died of liver cancer eight years ago my atheism became even more steadfast.

 

[Hubert Cumberdale]

What about Noah's wife, Joan Of Arc?

A burning question...

 

[Mudcat]

She'll just go to answersingenesis and drop that creationist nonsense on you.

I poked around in that site, apart from it's laughable grip on anything resembling reality it has a Christian slant which is enough to ensure that she won't try it. She's an orthodox Jew, not a messianic Jew (known as 'Jews for Jesus') and avoids any site like it.

You may have to accept her the way she is.

That would be my first reaction, I'm perfectly capable putting aside differences of faith (my extended family has people in just about every version of Christianity in America, and I still get along with them), my problem is what she does with it.

It takes different people in different ways.

I'm no stranger to death myself, every friend I have known in my childhood are all dead. Had a fair few brushes with death as well, and I have never sought 'comfort' in Yahweh or any other mythological figure.

 

[George 152]

The oldest (and largest) boat is the Solar Barque of Cheops.
Try getting one of every kind into it let alone the number the bable claims.
Gilgamesh should be ashamed that his yarn got taken over !

 

[dafydd]

A burning question...

Our local skating club put on a show, 'Joan Of Arc On Ice'' It wasn't a success.

 

[David Swidler]

Burned at the skate?

 

[Gawdzilla Sama]

Our local skating club put on a show, 'Joan Of Arc On Ice'' It wasn't a success.

Hey, don't shoot the Messenger.

 

[Lowpro]

I poked around in that site, apart from it's laughable grip on anything resembling reality it has a Christian slant which is enough to ensure that she won't try it. She's an orthodox Jew, not a messianic Jew (known as 'Jews for Jesus') and avoids any site like it.

AiG is Ken Ham's website, and with all the hate I have for Safartis, Ken Ham is actually an evil bastard who has ruined lives.

 

[Trakar]

I want to elaborate on this. You might want to suggest she consider what the story is trying to tell her as opposed to whether it happened the way the text tells it. The historicity of Genesis narrative was never the point. More recent believers were simply never taught that.

Amen