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Death Star Galaxy

Hiya BAC,

I just the time to look at some of the comet stuff.

Does that really look like a "loosely assembled icy dirtball with the consistency of talcum powder"? Would there be well defined craters in a dirtball having the consistency of talcum powder, David? But there they are.
No it looks like an ice ball to me, and something that you might find after a lake has frozen, thawed, fractured and refrozen, or something that I might find in a plow all I am shoveling through , but I don't also see why some pop science press r4elease is a defintive source on comets.

Depending on the size and speed of the impactor, it would be possible to mke craters in micro gravity nonetheless. I don't know why they say talcum powder.

NASA's website states http://discovery.nasa.gov/deepimpact.html "The science team was surprised to find evidence of what appear to be impact craters on the surface of the comet." When they first started getting images of the comet, Mike A'Hearn of the Deep Impact team said "There are things on this comet that look a lot like impact craters to many of us. It looks very different from Wild-2 or Borrelly. We don't understand what this means. This comet has had an orbital history that looks pretty much similar to Borrelly and yet it looks totally different."
And again here they are saying that they are suprised because they not like the other comets, not because the theory of comet formation says that they should not have impact craters.

So I don't get your point, most bodies in the solar system show impact craters, so what would be the big deal?

Don't you think it's amazing how much detail they claim to know about the comet when they got so many predictions wrong and can't even tell you now with any confidence the crater size or crater depth?
Isn't asmazing that you are arguing with what they are guessing from the impact. And then using more Rove rhetoric.Tell me how would you tell the size of a crater from the material that is sent out, which is what they can see. Why is that such a problem? I don't think your electric current theory would be able to say much more. To predict that the area impacted of the comet is like a snow bank just says that it is not a hard as solid old ice. That they can likely tell from the debris spray.
 
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More for BAC,

http://www.science.psu.edu/alert/Swift-Deep-Impact.htm

Swift scientists have seen a quick and dramatic rise in ultraviolet light, evidence that the Deep Impact probe struck a hard surface, as opposed to a softer, snowy surface."

Have you ever shovelled a plaow wall BAC, the exterior can be rock haed, so what is the suprise there? You can have a softer interior in a plow wall as well.
 
I can understand why people theorize that comets have to be ice. We understand water and ice, ice melting is sunlight, water vapor reflecting light, so of course we try to explain comets as if they are earthly objects undergoing earth like conditions.

People used to think the sun was burning as well. A big ball of fire.
 
I can understand why people theorize that comets have to be ice. We understand water and ice, ice melting is sunlight, water vapor reflecting light, so of course we try to explain comets as if they are earthly objects undergoing earth like conditions.

People used to think the sun was burning as well. A big ball of fire.


What earthly object is comprised of rock, dust, water ice, and frozen gases such as carbon monoxide, carbon dioxide, methane and ammonia?

Where on earth can this undergo ambient conditions of 2.7 degrees Kelvin, an almost perfect vacuum and be bombarded by high energy electrons and protons (about 1 keV)?
 
I'm sure you missed the point.

http://www.nasa.gov/mission_pages/deepimpact/media/deepimpact_water_ice.html
http://www.sciencenews.org/articles/20050910/bob9.asp

See? Almost everything we think we know about comets, just may be wrong.

I don't think The Man missed anything. His post illustrates why your assessment is off-base. We don't assume comets are "Earthly objects undergoing Earthlike conditions", and I'd be curious to know how you reached that conclusion. Our ideas about comets are based upon observations, not trying to "fit" their properties to match the planet we inhabit. Our understanding of comets will certainly improve with more observations, but suggesting that "almost everything" we know about comets to be wrong is a stretch.

As for the NASA release you posted, you're likely reading too much into the line “We have known for a long time that water ice exists in comets, but this is the first evidence of water ice on comets.” What that's describing is that Deep Impact found the first direct evidence for water ice on the surface of a comet's nucleus.

This goes into greater detail: Ice Exists on Surface of Comet, But Most Lies Deeper

"These results show that there is ice on the surface, but not very much and definitely not enough to account for the water we see in the out-gassed material that is in the coma," said lead author Jessica Sunshine of Science Applications International Corporation.

"These new findings are significant because they show that our technique is effective in finding ice when it is on the surface and that we can therefore firmly conclude that most of the water vapor that escapes from comets is contained in ice particles found below the surface," said Deep Impact Principal Investigator Michael A'Hearn of the University of Maryland.

Through observations of ice grains and water vapor in the coma of comets, scientists have long known that "dirty snowballs," as comets are sometimes described, must indeed contain substantial amounts of water ice. However, prior to Deep Impact they didn't have any knowledge about how such ice was distributed between the surface, subsurface and inner core of a comet's nucleus.

Comets are known to contain water ice because more often than not because it shows up in spectra (see here).
 
There's no need to exaggerate.

Exaggerate? I'm just quoting the mainstream and scientific sources. For example ...

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2007/10/071025155840.htm "Brian Marsden, director emeritus of the Minor Planet Center ... snip ... "This outburst by Comet Holmes is extreme!" Indeed, the outburst has left experts scratching their heads."

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2007/11/071115093122.htm "the bright core of Comet 17P/Holmes which, to the delight of sky watchers, mysteriously brightened by nearly a million-fold in a 24-hour period"

http://www.space.com/spacewatch/071025-comet-holmes.html "Why Comet Holmes has undergone such an explosive outburst is not understood. ... snip ... Alas, comets remain largely mysterious."

http://uanews.org/node/16695 "Why comet P/17 Holmes has had such a sudden, explosive outburst "is not understood at all," Flandrau Astronomy Coordinator Michael Terenzoni"

http://www.skyandtelescope.com/observing/home/10775326.html "In late October amateur astronomers were amazed by the weirdest new object to appear in the sky in memory."

http://www.skyandtelescope.com/news/11372856.html "Realistically, we may never know the cause. This comet's behavior, particularly the perfectly spherical outer halo, has confounded even the experts."

The cause of the outburst doesn't require invoking bizarre EU claims which neither jibe with established physics nor better explain existing data/observations.

Who was it who best predicted what would happen to the Deep Impact mission? It wasn't NASA. In fact, they didn't even come close. It was the Electric comet community. And they scored rather well. http://thunderbolts.info/tpod/2005/arch05/050719deepinterim.htm http://www.mikamar.biz/predictions.htm And the sudden eruption of Holmes would fit in very well with their theory. Whereas the mainstream astronomers are shrugging and saying we "may never know the cause". ;)

I see my post wasn't clear. I was not attempting to claim you denied the presence of an ion tail. Rather, it's stated in the URLs I provided that a clearly recognizable ion tail did form, and, pointed away from the Sun.

Your first source http://planetary.org/explore/topics/asteroids_and_comets/year2007_comet_holmes.html is, as David likes to say, a pop science website. It is not a scientific report by named scientists who reported a study of the tail like the one I quoted. It first makes the statement that "A (BAC - that would be a generic) comet's tail spreads in the direction away from the sun". No argument there. It then says "our view of holmes is almost directly down its tail". But, of course, that statement is not at all inconsistent with the quoted numbers of the astronomers I cited who said the numbers indicate the tail was NOT pointing directly away from the sun as it should but some 33 degrees off from the correct direction. That's still pointing "away". In fact, this leads to a question. If we are looking "almost directly down its tail", how come the tail only showed up on one side of the coma in images? Wouldn't we expect to see at least some tail on the other side? Given the relative locations of the sun, earth and comet, isn't that more consistent with the Canadian astronomers' conclusion that the tail is pointing some 33 degrees off from where it should be pointing?

Your second source http://antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov/apod/ap071105.html says "The blue ion tail is created by the solar wind impacting ions in the coma of Comet Holmes and pushing them away from the Sun. ... snip ... The detail visible in Comet Holmes' tail indicates that the explosion of dust and gas that created this dramatic brightness increase is in an ongoing and complex event." That again does not say how closely the tail is pointing to the direction it should be pointing. And as long as the ions are moving farther from the sun each second, wouldn't that be "away"? That leaves a lot of room.

Your third source http://www.spaceweather.com/comets/gallery_holmes_page10.htm does not make any statement that I can find regarding the direction the tail is pointing.

You cited a blog article which didn't elaborate on specifics from the Canadian observers (nor does their own press release, unfortunately) -- it merely highlighted the possibility of a "faint tail-like structure" having been detected in infrared, based on a preliminary analysis. They never specifically stated it was a tail.

But it turns out to have been the developing tail. Right? But in any case, I find the wording of this NASA POD description interesting. http://antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov/apod/ap071110.html " A beautiful blue ion tail has become visible in deep telescopic images of Comet Holmes. Pointing generally away from the Sun and also planet Earth, the comet's ion tail is seriously foreshortened by our extreme viewing angle." So now it's suddenly "generally" away from the sun when the Rosetta mission site, and many other mainstream sites, previously said comet tails "always" point "directly" away from the sun. How times change. :)

Or perhaps here's the problem. Turns out there are two types of tails.

http://deepimpact.umd.edu/gallery/jpg/Anatomy2.jpg

Ion (the blue ones) and dust tails (yellow by most descriptions). Many sources (including NASA) say that Ion tails point "directly" (or now "generally") away from the sun. But I wonder ... being ions, shouldn't they be affected by the sun's magnetic field? If it isn't pointing radially away from the sun then perhaps that's why Holme's ion tail isn't pointing directly away from the sun.

Those same sources usually say that dust trails can seem to point in other directions besides directly away from the sun ... because as the dust is blown away from the comet by radiation pressure it remains in orbit and may therefore seem to lead or lag behind the coma. But the radiation pressure is directly away from the sun, right? So at least the root of a comet's tail (the part nearest the coma) should be aimed directly away from the sun. And in the case of Holmes, because of the sun, earth and comet alignment, the whole tail might actually be pointing directly away from the sun and be hidden by the coma. In fact, maybe that diffuse symmetric cloud we see is just the growing dust tail? In any case, I think I will agree that there's probably nothing terribly unusual about the direction of comet Holme's Ion tail. Satisfied? :)

Originally Posted by BeAChooser
On various threads on this forum I have even posted images of the tail and mentioned the fact that the tail disconnected at one point.

Just out of curiosity -- where on this forum? I searched your posts for relevant commentary and browsed back through them manually, but to no avail.

Sorry ... I forgot. The Holmes comments were in a post that the management deleted. (post 50 of http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=99727&highlight=Beachooser&page=2 thread).

The ion tail which formed did indeed point away from the Sun, and is described as such in the imagery/links I provided.

It points away from the sun but your imagery/links did not prove that it points "directly" away or in the direction it should. I am forming the opinion that confusion has arisen because there are two types of tails and one appears to always point "generally" away from the sun and the other usually doesn't point "directly" away (unless the viewing situation is just perfect ... like it may have been with Holmes). Confusion has arisen, I think, because NASA and mainstream astronomers appear to have confused the two in their own websites and press releases.

I think your desire to selectively interpret if not shoehorn the text is what's leading you astray.

If anything has led me astray, it's been the confusion created by NASA and those Canadian astronomers. And let's see if you think I've been "shoehorn"ing all the other data that suggests a problem with NASA's comet model. :)

Look for a discussion of Comet Temple 1 (the Deep Impact mission), Comet Wild 2, Comet Hale-Bopp, Comet Borrelly, etc.

I'll have to give a second shot at digging them up. Were they dedicated threads or tangental discussions inside others?

For example, posts 26 and 73 of http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=94229 . But don't worry ... I'll go over some of that data below.

Originally Posted by BeAChooser
Perhaps because you haven't convinced me that your model actually works at all. Maybe it's time to look at models that DO include well know plasma phenomena and electric current.

This is a non-answer.

No, it's a precise answer. I've stated my case ... consisting of two parts. First, I've posted descriptions and links on NUMEROUS specific observations that the mainstream model does not adequately explain or fails to explain at all. Second, I posted descriptions and links for an alternative that appears to be self consistent and which does indeed seem to explain all the data, including the items that the mainstream model is having so much trouble explaining. And I noted that based on that alternative, predictions were made for the Deep Impact mission which almost all came true ... in stark contrast to NASA's "expectations" regarding what would occur.

What is it specifically about McCanney's cometary claims you think have merit, and why?

LOL! I'm not defending McCanney's theory. Much of what he says may indeed be nonsense (note that I happen to subscribe to the Electric Comet theory espoused by the Thunderbolts group which is quite different). The point (maybe I should have been clearer) is that NASA's theory of comets is also nonsense ... otherwise they wouldn't be having so much trouble dealing with each and every new observation. The point is that the electric comet theory at least deserves mention on NASAs website. :)

I tell you what ... let me comment on your link's comments about McCanney's comet theory and see if the link you provided as debunking McCanney is itself honest and correct in what it claims.

With regard to the composition of comets, your link (http://www.badastronomy.com/bad/misc/mccanney/snowballs.html ) says "80% of the material emitted by Halley was composed of water! ... snip ... And it's not just Comet Halley that has water ice; astronomers see lots of water ice in comets. ... snip ... Comets have water, and lots of it, and there is lots of proof of it. Tons, in fact, in every comet! ... snip ... Conclusion: Comets are cold balls of ice".

Let's start with the claim that 80% of the material emitted by Halley was composed of water. I could say ... so what? Afterall, the electric comet theory from the Thunderbolts group does not say there can't be comets with lots of water. But the standard model seems to require that most (all?) comets be mostly water. So if they aren't, the standard model may have a problem.

Furthermore, the 80% figure could just be misleading. It turns out that's 80 percent water by volume. But 80% by volume does not necessarily contradict a model where most of the comet is made of dry dust. In such a case, one could easily find the comet is mostly dust ... by mass. And I think that's what most of the other data on comets actually suggests.

Let's start with comet Temple 1, target of the Deep Impact mission. Mainstream scientists predicted the impactor would release a huge amount of water. But that did not happen. A press release titled "Deep Impact Was a Dust-up, Not a Gusher" (http://www.spaceref.com/news/viewpr.html?pid=17385 ) from the Harvard-Smithsonian Center for Astrophysics said that astronomers were "puzzled" by the "lack of increased water vapor from Temple 1". That's an understatement. Astronomers actually reported that "Post-impact measurements showed the comet was releasing only about 550 pounds of water per second - an emission rate very similar to pre-impact values, and less than seen by SWAS during natural outbursts in the weeks before the impact."

The Thunderbolts website discusses the issue of water and the observations in considerable depth. I highly recommend you read http://www.thunderbolts.info/tpod/2006/arch06/060214comet.htm , http://www.thunderbolts.info/tpod/2006/arch06/060216deepimpact2.htm , http://www.thunderbolts.info/tpod/2006/arch06/060217deepimpact3.htm . Their explanation is far more complete than what I can offer in the limited space available here. But here are some highlights:

Smithsonian astronomers reported seeing "only weak emission from water vapor and a host of other gases that were expected to erupt from the impact site." It's noted that the Odin telescope in Sweden found that the total amount of water seemed to decrease after the impact. Now you wouldn't know this reading NASA's public announcements. NASA's Deep Impact site posted a headline in February 2006 that "Deep Impact Finds Water Ice on Comet", saying "This is the first time ice has been detected on the nucleus, or solid body, of a comet”. Here's a link: http://www.nasa.gov/mission_pages/deepimpact/media/deepimpact_water_ice.html.

Turns out the ice covered less than 1% of Comet Tempel 1’s surface and of that area only 6% consisted of pure water ice. The rest was dry. And what NASA's public announcement didn't say is that the researchers concluded that the water ice is present in far too small of amounts to fit their model of what is supposedly happening on comets. Here's a statement from those who found ice. http://english.sina.com/technology/1/2006/0202/64143.html "The deposits are too small in area to be the main source of outgassing water vapor from the comet nucleus, implying most of the water in the comet lies beneath the surface, the researchers said. "While they may be associated with natural outbursts, the water ice deposits detected on the surface of Tempel 1 reported here are not the dominant sources of outgassing," they wrote in the paper. "Therefore, assuming that the distribution of ice on the unobserved parts of the nucleus are broadly similar to those observed, the ambient outgassing observed for Tempel 1 likely has significant sub-surface sources," they concluded."

But as the Thunderbolts website noted: "if an 800 pound projectile meeting a comet at 23,000 miles per hour, could not release the “subsurface water” demanded by theory, how could mere sunlight in the deep freeze of space do the job?" If a thin crust of dust hides the water below the surface, "one would think that a newly formed crater, estimated to be the size of a football field and perhaps 65 feet deep, would add life to the comet’s water-producing ability". But it didn't.

And as the Thunderbolt group points out, none of the prior comet visits (Halley, Borrelly, Wild 2) revealed surface water/ice either. The flyby of Comet Borrelly in 2001 “detected no frozen water on its surface”. "The spectrum suggests that the surface is hot and dry. It is surprising that we saw no traces of water ice," said the lead investigator Dr. Laurence Soderblom. Comet Wild 2 had a dozen jets of material exploding from the nucleus yet investigators could not find even a trace of water on the surface, despite the activity.

When comet Shoemaker-Levy-9 broke apart near Jupiter, according to the standard model, it should have exposed fresh ice that would have sublimated. But several ground-based telescopes and the Hubble Space Telescope trained spectroscopes on the tails of the fragments of SL-9, looking for traces of volatile gases, and found none. Same thing happened with comet 1999 S4 LINEAR. It too broke up and was found to contain far less water than the mainstream astronomers thought.

http://www.thunderbolts.info/tpod/2005/arch05/050520linear.htm “Comet LINEAR seems to be dissolving into an amorphous haze of gas and dust”, exclaimed a NASA Express Science News release. ... snip ... Perhaps the greatest shock came from analysis of the debris left by the comet’s dissolution. According to Hal Weaver, an astronomer at Johns Hopkins University in Baltimore (as reported in an AP story on May 18, 2001), researchers were “surprised at the ratio of ice to dust and rock in Linear”. Analysis showed that Linear “had about 100 times more solid rock and dust than ice”."

And consider this. http://www.rense.com/general70/star.htm "Dust particles ejected by Comet Wild 2 have provoked another surprise, contradicting the underlying assumptions of popular comet theory. When the Stardust mission returned "pristine comet material" from Comet Wild 2, project scientists were astonished to discover minerals that can only form at high temperatures -- up to thousands of degrees Fahrenheit. And the dust particles reveal no indications of the water that cometologists expected. ... snip ... As for the water (ice), that was supposed to be the primary constituent of comets. But the anticipated markers of water on the nucleus of Wild 2 are absent. ... snip ... According to Stardust principal investigator Donald Brownlee, 'no evidence of water has been detected in the particles'. One sign of water, for example, would be the presence of hydrate silicates, Brownlee said, 'but so far none of these have been found in the Stardust samples'."

And mainstream astronomers have no explanation. But instead of acknowledging there is a serious problem with their 80% for all comets model, NASA and it's proponents cling to the dirty snowball and hide from the public the real state of affairs.

Now the Thunderbolts group (see http://www.rense.com/general63/elele.htm ) notes that "ironically, electrical activity within cometary comas may have deceived investigators into thinking" there is water on all comets. If a comet is highly negatively charged with respect to the Sun as electric comet theorists claim, then as it moves towards the Sun, it's nucleus will begin to experience spark discharges which will machine rock material from the surface, forming "a 'cathode jet' of negatively charged dust together with surface matter that has been torn apart to release ionized atoms". Among those atoms will be oxygen. The Thunderbolts group says "there is reason to believe that the positively charged hydrogen ions from the solar wind react preferentially with the negatively charged oxygen from the nucleus to generate the water observed surrounding comets."

Halley may in fact be a special case. In most cases, detection of OH radicals is simply interpreted to mean there was water on the comet. They assume the OH was formed by the breakdown of water under the sun's ultraviolet radiation. For example,

http://www.obs-nancay.fr/nrt/a_scirt.htm "The first detection of a comet at radio wavelength was made at Nancay in 1973, in the 18 cm line of the OH (hydroxyl) radical. ... snip ... A number of things can be learned from these observations, like the gas production rate in comets (in tonnes per second), since the OH radical is formed by the dissociation from the water molecule (H2O) by ultraviolet radiation from the Sun. Water represents about 80% of the gaseous matter evaporating from a cometary nucleus."

arxiv.org/pdf/astro-ph/0703785 "Cometary diversity and
cometary families" by Jacques Crovisier, Observatoire de Paris ... "Unfortunately, these daughter-species studies do not inform us directly on the nature of their parent species. There is little doubt that the OH radical comes mostly form the photolysis of water and indeed, the OH production rates are used as a proxy for the cometary water production rates. "

But ...

http://www.hyperspacecafe.com/forum45/3671.html "Electrical theorist Wallace Thornhill offers a different interpretation, consistent with the surprising discoveries of recent years. He notes that space probes have detected the negatively charged oxygen atom, or negative oxygen ion, close to cometary nuclei. Additionally, spectral analysis of neutral oxygen (O) shows a 'forbidden line' indicative of the presence of an 'intense' electric field. Negative ions near a comet nucleus puzzled investigators because such ions are easily destroyed by solar radiation. Thus, investigators reviewing the findings at comet Halley noted, "an efficient production mechanism, so far unidentified, is required to account for the observed densities" of negative ions. As stated by Thornhill, "...the intense electric field near the comet nucleus is inexplicable if it is merely an inert body plowing through the solar wind." But the electric model resolves the mysteries: "The electric field near the comet nucleus is expected if a comet is a highly negatively charged body, relative to the solar wind. Cathode sputtering of the comet nucleus will strip atoms and molecules directly from solid rock and charge them negatively. So the presence of negative oxygen and other ions close to the comet nucleus is to be expected. Negative oxygen ions will be accelerated away from the comet in the cathode jets and combine with protons from the solar wind to form the observed OH radical at some distance from the nucleus."

So your source didn't quite tell the full story, did it. :D

Now, what about your link's second claim regarding the solar wind (http://www.badastronomy.com/bad/misc/mccanney/solarwind.html ).

It first states the sun is a big ball of gas. This is false. The sun is a made of plasma. The distinction might be very important to our understanding of the sun and the space around it because plasma can be influenced by electromagnetic effects and can carry electric current.

Next your source claims that experiments have found the solar wind is "electrically neutral". This is deceptive. The solar wind is at best "QUASI-neutral". The solar wind does not have to have a net positive or negative "charge" to act in an electrical manner. The inside of a discharge tube (like a fluorescent bulb is electrically neutral too. A neutral plasma acts like a wire in that current can flow through it. There is an electric field present in a wire ... which is what the electric comet theory of the Thunderbolts group requires. If you move a wire while electric current flows, magnetic fields will form. The same is true of plasmas. And if there is enough of a voltage difference between the comet and the surrounding environment, the comet would discharge ... as the electric comet proponents theorize is happening on the surface of comets.

Interplanetary space can be thought of as the 'positive column' region of the glow discharge tube. The positive column is a region of almost equal numbers of positive ions and electrons (it is quasi-neutral). It is also characterized by a very low voltage gradient. Similarly, the solar "wind" is quasi-neutral and it too is in a region with a low voltage gradient. As the Thunderbolts theorists state, the "wind" is just the conducting medium between the cathode at the edge of the solar system and the solar anode. "So looking for excess relativistic electrons rushing toward the Sun is no more sensible than looking at a current-carrying wire and asking where are all the excess electrons rushing from one end to the other."

Finally, your source claims that "if the Sun's wind were primarily positive particles, then the Sun would build up a vast negative charge on its surface. This would affect everything about the Sun, from its magnetic field to the way the surface features behave. We see no indications at all that the Sun has a huge negative charge." This is also false. There have been no experiments to see whether current flows in the solar wind or whether the sun is negatively charged.

In fact, according to electric sun proponents, it is impossible to send a spacecraft to directly measure the voltage of the solar plasma at some point because voltage is a relative thing. It "must be measured with respect to some datum. A spacecraft will start out having the same voltage as the surface of Earth. As it penetrates the plasmasphere and enters the solar plasma it will slowly accumulate charge and thus alter its voltage." So we do not know for sure, one way or the other.

Furthermore, the phenomena observed on the sun and above the sun actually do support the notion that the surface of the sun is acting as the anode in a discharge tube where the cathode is at the edge of the solar system. Numerous electrical engineers and plasma physicists say this is true and have even published these conclusions in peer reviewed journals. They have presented a clear and consistent explanation for the various solar phenomena that are still giving mainstream theorists problems and forcing them to introduce bogus physics like magnetic reconnection. And that information has been provided to this forum in numerous posts and is readily available just by reading Donald Scott's book ("the Electric Sky"), visiting the Thunderbolts websites, http://www.the-electric-universe.info/the_electric_sun.html or visiting sites like this: http://www.electric-cosmos.org/sun.htm.

The electric sun model has no problem explaining solar granules and their chaotic behavior, sunspots and their interaction with each other, solar flares, solar prominences, the temperature variation of the chromosphere, the solar ring current, the appearance and extreme temperature of the corona, coronal mass ejections (CMEs), the production of various particles and radiation (heavy, neutrinos, x-rays, radio emission) by the sun and comets, the solar wind and changes in its intensity over time, the continued acceleration of the solar wind as it moves away from the sun, comet observations, heliospheric boundary observations, the behavior of the pioneer and voyager spacecraft, etc. All of these are phenomena that the mainstream model is STILL struggling to adequately explain, despite 30 years, billions of research dollars and the invention of bogus physics gnomes that clearly violate Maxwell's laws.

Moreover, the electric star model also more clearly explains the observed differences between the various types of stars as represented on the important Hertzsprung-Russel (HR) diagram and the exact shape of that diagram. In that regard, I recommend a visit to http://www.electric-cosmos.org/hrdiagr.htm, which fully explains this very positive attribute of the model. In contrast, mainstream astrophysicists have difficulty explaining X-ray flares observed from brown dwarfs, a star (http://apod.nasa.gov/apod/ap000712.html ) where over 10% of the surface seems to be covered by a single sunspot, Wolf Rayet stars, the hourglass/axial shape of nebula, and jets from pulsars.

And in contrast to the mainstream's core fusion/evolution model, the electric star model offers an explanation why some stars have been observed moving over a matter of weeks or months from one location on the HR diagram to a quite different location on it. Some of these cases are discussed in the http://www.electric-cosmos.org/hrdiagr.htm link. For example, the case of V838 Monocertis is noted where NASA's Picture of the Day announced "Observations indicate that the erupting star transformed itself over a period of months from a small under-luminous star a little hotter than the Sun, to a highly-luminous, cool supergiant star undergoing rapid and complex brightness changes. The transformation defies the conventional understanding of stellar life cycles. A most notable feature of V838 Mon is the "expanding" nebula which now appears to surround it." Mainstream astronomers clearly can't explain what happened. But electric star proponents can ... and with ease. Just read Scott's book or the above link.

http://www.electric-cosmos.org/hrdiagr.htm summarizes the topic thus: "A fresh look at the Hertzsprung-Russell diagram, unencumbered by the assumption that all stars must be internally powered by the thermonuclear fusion reaction, reveals an elegant correspondence between this plot and the Electric Star model proposed by Ralph Juergens and extended by Earl Milton. In fact the correspondence is better than it is with the standard thermonuclear model. The details in the shape of the HR diagram are exactly what the tufted electric star model predicts they should be. The observed actions of nova-like variable stars, pulsars, the anomalies in the line spectra of B-type stars, and the high frequency of occurrence of binary pairs of stars are all in concordance with Thornhill's Electrical Universe theory, his stellar fissioning concept, and the Electric Star model as well. Completely mysterious and unexplained from the thermonuclear model point of view is the 'impossible' evolutionary behavior of FG Sagittae and V838 Monocerotis. Yet these phenomena are perfectly understandable using the ES model."

And such a theory is not inconsistent with the solar wind as measured. Indeed, according to Donald Scott, an electrical engineer, in http://www.electric-cosmos.org/Rejoinder.htm "In the gas discharge model, interplanetary space is an extensive plasma region termed the ‘positive column,’ which is characterized by almost equal numbers of positive charges (ions) and electrons. The plasma is electrically ‘quasi-neutral,’ like a current-carrying copper wire. And like a copper wire, it is a region with a weak electric field that causes a steady drift of electrons toward the more positive ‘sink.’ (The drift speed of electrons in a current-carrying copper wire is typically measured in cm/hr!) The drift current focused down from the vastness of space powers the Sun. The drift field is also responsible for the weak acceleration of positive ions away from the Sun. The result is the quasi-neutral solar ‘wind.’ The electric Sun model is the only one that has a consistent satisfactory explanation for the solar wind." Plus, various observations support the notion that there are large currents in interplanetary and interstellar space ... meaning it is possible that current is flowing towards the sun to equalize a voltage difference between interstellar space and it. The reasons for believing the above have been presented in my earlier posts on this forum and are clearly spelled out on various Thunderbolts and Electric Universe links.

Now, I found this recent article particularly interesting. According to http://www.thunderbolts.info/webnews/121707electricsun.htm "The disconnect between astronomical theory and discovery is in full display in the recent NASA press release, "NASA Spacecraft Make New Discoveries about Northern Lights" (http://science.nasa.gov/headlines/y2007/11dec_themis.htm ). The report discusses the THEMIS spacecraft's recent observations of 'giant magnetic ropes that connect Earth's upper atmosphere to the Sun and explosions in the outskirts of Earth's magnetic field.' ... snip ... Magnetic "ropes"? This expression begs the question of how the fluid dynamics envisioned by NASA can explain a "rope-like" structure that twists and changes dynamically, and extends all the way from Earth back to the Sun. NASA scientists often use the phrase "flux ropes" to describe these twisted filamentary pathways traversed by charged particles. But to electrical engineers, such terminology reveals a deep confusion among astronomers struggling to comprehend unexpected electrical activity. Professor Donald E Scott, author of The Electric Sky, says, 'Ropes, of course, have beginnings and ends. Magnetic fields do not. So this use of language from NASA fails to explain anything, and is conceptually wrong as well as misleading.' ... snip ... The 'ropes' to which the investigators refer are commonly described in plasma Science as electrical 'Birkeland currents,' named after the aforementioned Kristian Birkeland. The rope-like structure is not just a curiosity; it is the structure taken by current flow due to the long-range attraction and short-range repulsion between current filaments. The "twisted magnetic fields" are simply the signature of the electric current flow. In plasma cosmology, these entwined plasma filaments act as transmission lines carrying 'field-aligned' currents across interplanetary and interstellar space."

Here's more from the NASA report (http://science.nasa.gov/headlines/y2007/11dec_themis.htm ): "'The satellites have found evidence for magnetic ropes connecting Earth's upper atmosphere directly to the Sun{/b],' says Dave Sibeck, project scientist for the mission at the Goddard Space Flight Center. 'We believe that solar wind particles flow in along these ropes, providing energy for geomagnetic storms and auroras.' A 'magnetic rope"' is a twisted bundle of magnetic fields organized much like the twisted hemp of a mariner's rope. Spacecraft have detected hints of these ropes before, but a single spacecraft is insufficient to map their 3D structure. THEMIS's five satellites were able to perform the feat."

That does indeed sound like a description of Birkeland currents. This is highly suggestive evidence that there are currents flowing through interplanetary space to or from the sun. And these researchers are apparently unaware of it. They are too focused on their bogus gnomes, "reconnection" and "frozen-in magnetic fields", to see the truth that is staring them in the face.

http://scitation.aip.org/getabs/servlet/GetabsServlet?prog=normal&id=APCPCS000932000001000026000001 "Flux tubes in the fast and slow solar wind ... snip ... 6th Annual International Astrophysics Conference, Issue Date: August 28, 2007 ... snip ... "Recent studies suggest that flux-tube-like structures may exist in the solar wind. In this scenario, the solar wind plasma are confined in many individual flux tubes and plasma in these flux tubes move independently from each other. ... snip ... we analyze magnetic field data obtained from Ulysses spacecraft in both fast and slow solar wind, at various radii and latitudes. Our results show flux tubes exist in both the fast and the slow solar wind."

Yes, it's staring them in the face.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/2/26/Plasma-lamp_2.jpg/300px-Plasma-lamp_2.jpg

http://www.waterdropgraphics.com/plamaball.gif

:D

And here is another false Phil Plait comet related claim:

http://www.badastronomy.com/bad/misc/mccanney/misc.html#X-rays "there are plenty of ways a comet could give off X-rays, even though it's cold. For one, comets get smacked by the high-energy particles from the Sun's solar wind. Ice, when hit like that, fluoresces; that is, gives off light. At those energies, the light given off is in the form of X-rays. So naturally, the part of the comet facing the Sun is where the X-rays come from."

One problem with this claim? A lot of the comets producing x-rays don't seem to have have ANY ice (or water for that matter) on them. Another problem? The emission of x-rays was actually a big surprise to mainstream astrophysicists. Why would the production of x-rays due to the solar wind "smacking" comets that the mainstream claimed at the time were 80% ice not be "expected" if the physics claimed by Phil is at all valid? Were those astrophysicists so incompetent they just missed that? In 1996, when the German X-ray Roentgen Satellite (ROSAT) viewed comet Hyakutake, it detected x-rays "100 times more intense than even the most optimistic predictions" (http://heasarc.nasa.gov/docs/rosat/hyakutake.html ) According to that NASA source, "'We had no clear expectation that comets shine in X-rays,' said Dr. Michael J. Mumma of NASA's Goddard Space Flight Center ... snip ... 'Now we have our work cut out for us in explaining these data, but that's the kind of problem you love to have.' ... snip ... There were pronounced increases and decreases in the X-ray brightness from one ROSAT observation to another, typically over a time difference of a few hours."

And guess what? This NASA source (http://heasarc.gsfc.nasa.gov/docs/rosat/hyakutake2.html ) provides this image (http://heasarc.gsfc.nasa.gov/Images/rosat/hyakutake.jpg ) and states that "The X-rays arise primarily from a crescent-shaped region with a diameter of about 50,000 km (BAC - the nucleus was 2 km), on the sunlit side of the comet. The directions toward the sun and of the comet motion are indicated by the arrows. No X-ray emission is detected from the nucleus, marked by the "+" sign." That simple fact completely demolishes Phil's red herring claim that high velocity solar wind particles hitting ice on the sunward side of the nucleus is the source of the x-rays. The x-rays are emitted well ABOVE the surface of the comet. So I guess both your source and McCanney are unreliable sources. :D

You certainly did suggest 96P/Machholz caused the CME.

Oh, all right. Looking back I guess I did. :) Let's see if anyone in the mainstream community suggests this:

http://209.85.173.104/search?q=cach...4384.pdf+cme+comets&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=14&gl=us "Geophysical Research Abstracts, Vol. 7, 04384, 2005 ... snip ... Impacts of comets onto the Sun and coronal mass ejections ... snip ... The energy of the impactors which may initiate the evolution of micro-instabilities, reconnection of magnetic field lines and ultimately trigger a CME may be substantially less than the final energy of CME."

Even so, I'm willing to grant that comets probably don't "cause" CMEs. But that doesn't mean the two aren't related in the underlying physics. And I still would like an explanation for how a CME caused a comet tail to disconnect that doesn't involve that magic gnome called "reconnection". :D
 
Not all Nobel winners are credible - on the contrary, quite a few turned into crackpots in their old age.

:) Do you really wish to try and argue that Hannes Alfven was a crackpot? Mind you, his theories about an electric universe were formulated in his relative youth ... about the time he was formulating MHD I think. And in instance after instance, his predictions about what we would find in space have been borne out by observations.

Why don't you quote laureate James Watson, who recently declared Africans are stupid, only to have his own DNA reveal a significant African component? Or Robert Laughlin, who has made himself into a laughingstock promoting a silly idea about black holes?

Classic red herring. :)

Dark matter was observed indirectly in the 90s, and directly only last year.

Dark matter was NOT "observed" in the 90's. It was only inferred from observations (such as the rotation curves of galaxies) that it turns out could be explained by much more ordinary electromagnetic phenomena (see the work of Peratt in http://public.lanl.gov/alp/plasma/downloads/AdvancesII.annotated.pdf and http://www.cosmology.info/2005conference/wps/gallo_1.pdf ).

As to your claim it was "directly observed" last year ... ROTFLOL! How do you "directly observe" something that neither emits nor interacts with electromagnetic radiation? And if it's been directly observed, why can't you tell us what it is? Heck, there are more types of dark matter hypothesized than one can shake a stick at ... hot dark matter, cold dark matter, cold collisionless dark matter, strongly self-interacting dark matter, warm dark matter, repulsive dark matter, self annihilating dark matter, fuzzy dark matter and probably a few other categories that I failed to list.

In fact, according to articles on your so-called "direct observation" of dark matter (http://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releas...-dmm081607.php "Dark matter mystery deepens in cosmic 'train wreck, Public release date: 16-Aug-2007" ) , dark matter may now need to interact with other dark matter by an "as-yet-unknown" interaction ... i.e., yet another gnome ... in order to explain the observations. And what NASA did in creating their "pretty picture" of dark matter (http://www.physorg.com/news75387135.html ) is fabricate from assumptions and calculations a blue "lensing map" that only IMAGINES what NASA scientists believe should be there. They didn't directly observe dark matter.

Furthermore, researchers are now finding dark matter does not explain this observation but are suggesting it proves just the opposite. http://www.physorg.com/news113031879.html "October 31, 2007 ... snip ... Galaxy cluster models cast doubt on dark matter ... snip ... Previous studies suggested that the Bullet Cluster clearly demonstrates the presence of dark matter. But when Brownstein and Moffat compared the observed gravitational lensing and distribution of gas with that predicted using MOG theory, they found no evidence for this."

http://www.drudge.com/news/100844/astronomers-dark-matter-doesnt-exist "Last August, an astronomer at the University of Arizona at Tucson and his colleagues reported that a collision between two huge clusters of galaxies 3 billion light-years away, known as the Bullet Cluster, had caused clouds of dark matter to separate from normal matter. Many scientists said the observations were proof of dark matter's existence and a serious blow for alternative explanations aiming to do away with dark matter with modified theories of gravity. Now John Moffat, an astronomer at the University of Waterloo in Canada, and Joel Brownstein, his graduate student, say those announcements were premature."

Plus there are all sorts of other unanswered problems with your dark matter gnome. For example ... http://www.nasa.gov/centers/goddard/news/topstory/2004/0107filament.html "2004, GIANT GALAXY STRING DEFIES MODELS OF HOW UNIVERSE EVOLVED ... snip ... "To explain our results," said Francis, "the dark matter clouds that lie in strings must have formed galaxies, while the dark matter clouds elsewhere have not done so. We've no idea why this happened - it's not what the models predict." And why are there huge voids without dark matter (http://www.space.com/scienceastronomy/070823_huge_hole.html )? And why do some galaxies apparently lack it (http://arxiv.org/abs/astro-ph/0411797 and http://arxiv.org/abs/astro-ph/0410421 ) ... especially now that the mainstream's model for formation of galaxies requires it's presence for them to even form? Does this magic gnome turn its nose up at residing in certain neighborhoods? Shall we invent another magic gnome to explain that?

And if dark matter has been proven to exist like you claim, then why are mainstream researchers involved in the creation of the largest supercomputer simulations of the universe ever attempted at the University of Colorado expressing statements like this:
http://www.physorg.com/news116170410.html "December 06, 2007 ... snip ... Professor Moffat adds, ‘If the multi-billion dollar laboratory experiments now underway succeed in directly detecting dark matter, then I will be happy to see Einsteinian and Newtonian gravity retained. However, if dark matter is not detected and we have to conclude that it does not exist ... "?

According to a book by Paul A. LaViolette published in 1995 titled "Genesis of the Cosmos: The Ancient Science of Continuous Creation", Valtonen and Byrd applied the relationship that mainstream astronomers use to relate velocities to cluster mass (it's called the Virial theorem) to several specific clusters and found no evidence of dark matter. The velocities they measured were normal, based on estimates of the clusters' visible, baryonic mass.

Researchers continue to find you don't need dark matter to explain cluster motions: http://www.journals.uchicago.edu/doi/abs/10.1086/381481 "The Astronomical Journal, 127 ... snip ... 2004 ... snip ... Improved Models for the Evolution of the Coma Cluster of Galaxies, Seppo Laine, Jia-Qing Zheng and Mauri J. Valtonen ... snip ... At the end of the N?body simulation of 250 galaxies, we extract the projected galaxy surface density and radial velocity dispersion profiles as a function of the distance from the center of the mass of the cluster. With certain initial parameters, excellent agreement with observations is obtained. In such models, the use of the virial theorem in the standard way gives an overestimate of the cluster mass by a factor of about 3. Therefore, the true mass of the Coma Cluster should be smaller than the usually quoted value by the same factor."

Sorry, but dark matter is clearly STILL a gnome and nothing more.

The acceleration of the expansion of the universe, which implies the existence of dark energy, was first reported in 1998 or 99.

Claims that the universe is accelerating heavily depend on the redshift/distance relationship holding to the edge of the observable universe. There are many good reasons to suspect it doesn't, including numerous observations that show high redshift quasars/galaxies in front of, aligned with, associated with and interacting with low redshift objects. See, for example, http://www.journals.uchicago.edu/ApJ/journal/issues/ApJ/v620n1/60493/60493.html , http://arxiv.org/abs/astro-ph/0409215 , http://www.journals.uchicago.edu/ApJ/journal/issues/ApJ/v620n1/60493/60493.html , (López-Corredoira, Martin and Carlos M. Gutiérrez (2002), “Two Emission Line Objects with z>0.2 in the Optical Filament Apparently Connecting the Seyfert Galaxy NGC 7603 to Its Companion,” Astronomy and Astrophysics) , http://arxiv.org/abs/astro-ph/0510815 , http://www.journals.uchicago.edu/ApJ/journal/issues/ApJ/v549n2/51780/51780.html , http://www.journals.uchicago.edu/ApJ/journal/issues/ApJ/v525n2/39505/39505.html , http://72.14.253.104/search?q=cache....gz+NGC+3628+quasars&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=5&gl=us , http://www.thunderbolts.info/tpod/2004/arch/041028redshift-rosetta.htm , http://arxiv.org/abs/0712.3180 .

Also, it heavily depends on quasars being black holes (because otherwise they also can't be as distant has hypothesized). But to explain the jets from quasars, mainstream astrophysicists have had to invent bogus magnetic field physics such as open and tangled field lines, reconnection, and frozen-in magnetic fields.

And can you tell us what it is? You can't, can you? Yet supposedly 76% of the universe's mass consists of it. Sorry but that's clearly a gnome. In fact, this is such a gnome that now some mainstream scientists are claiming dark matter and dark energy are actually one and the same: http://www.space.com/scienceastronomy/mystery_monday_040712.html . :D

I think this sums things up ... http://arxiv.org/abs/0711.4264 "Altogether, the results seem to imply that dark energy is a mirage."

Inflation was experimentally confirmed, or at least very strongly supported, by the WMAP data of the last 3-4 years.

You want to talk about inflation? Sure. Here's a good history/summary showing what a contrived kludge inflation really is:

http://www.apologeticspress.org/modules.php?name=Read&cat=1&itemid=28 "CAN INFLATIONARY THEORY SAVE THE BIG BANG"

And this is also good:

http://www.magicdave.com/ron/cosmology_at_the_beginning_of_a_.htm "Inflation is a theory that is unconfirmed at this time, which relies on GUT, another unconfirmed theory. ... snip ... What does the CMB say about inflation? Inflation's prediction of flatness is as yet not directly confirmed. But flatness and the scale invariance of the CMB are related. Calculations predict a peak of the anisotropy scale at one degree of sky, and finding such a peak is an indirect confirmation of flatness. ... snip ... But all is not well. Inflation theory predicts a series of secondary peaks in the anisotropy spectrum. They trail after the first peak at one degree at finer angular scales. ... snip ... Boomerang and Maxima should have been sensitive enough to see the second peak. But if it is present, it is much smaller than theory predicts. No variant of inflation can account for this. In addition to these findings, studies of the COBE data show that the anisotropies may not be Gaussian. It would seem that whatever is going on, it’s more complicated than inflation "

And you want to talk about WMAP data? Ok. Let's look at some recent announcements regarding the WMAP data:

http://www.physorg.com/news76314500.html "September 01, 2006, ... snip ... In a finding sure to cause controversy, scientists at The University of Alabama in Huntsville (UAH) found a lack of evidence of shadows from "nearby" clusters of galaxies using new, highly accurate measurements of the cosmic microwave background. ... snip ... "These shadows are a well-known thing that has been predicted for years," said Lieu. ... snip ... If the standard Big Bang theory of the universe is accurate and the background microwave radiation came to Earth from the furthest edges of the universe, then massive X-ray emitting clusters of galaxies nearest our own Milky Way galaxy should all cast shadows on the microwave background. ... snip ... Taken together, the data shows a shadow effect about one-fourth of what was predicted - an amount roughly equal in strength to natural variations previously seen in the microwave background across the entire sky. Either it (the microwave background) isn't coming from behind the clusters, which means the Big Bang is blown away, or ... there is something else going on," said Lieu." And there was this little tidbit at the end of that article: "Just over a year ago Lieu and Dr. Jonathan Mittaz, a UAH research associate, published results of a study using WMAP data to look for evidence of "lensing" effects which should have been seen (but weren't) if the microwave background was a Big Bang remnant."

Glenn Starkman of Case Western Reserve University has discovered some characteristics in the Wilkinson Microwave Anisotropy Probe (WMAP) data that have serious consequences for the Standard Model. http://burro.astr.cwru.edu/dept/Talks/starkman.shtml "Far from having the smooth, Gaussian distribution predicted by Big Bang, the microwave picture has distinct anisotropies, and what’s more says Starkman, they are clearly aligned with local astrophysical structures, particularly the ecliptic of the Solar System. Once the dipole harmonic is stripped to remove the effect of the motion of the Solar System, the other harmonics, quadrupole, octopole, and so on reveal a distinct alignment with local objects. The quadrupole and octopole power is concentrated on a ring around the sky and are essentially zero along a preferred axis. The direction of this axis is identical with the direction toward the Virgo cluster and lies exactly along the axis of the Local Supercluster filament of which our Galaxy is a part. This observation completely contradicts the Big Bang assumption that the CBR originated far from the local Supercluster and is, on the largest scale, isotropic without a preferred direction in space. Either the Big Bang assumption is wrong or there is something seriously wrong with the WMAP data."

http://space.newscientist.com/article/mg19425994.000-axis-of-evil-a-cause-for-cosmic-concern.html : "'Axis of evil' a cause for cosmic concern, 13 April 2007, New Scientist, Zeeya Merali, *... snip ... According to the standard model, the universe is isotropic, or much the same everywhere. However, in 2005, Kate Land and João Magueijo of Imperial College London noticed a curious pattern in the map of the cosmic microwave background (CMB) created by NASA's WMAP satellite. It seemed to show that some hot and cold spots in the CMB are not distributed randomly, as expected, but are aligned along what Magueijo dubbed the axis of evil. Some astronomers have suggested straightforward explanations for the axis, such as problems with WMAP's instruments or distortions caused by a nearby supercluster (New Scientist, 22 October 2005, p 19). Others doubt the pattern's very existence. ... snip ... Now, two independent studies seem to confirm that it does exist. Damien Hutsemékers of the University of Liège in Belgium analysed the polarisation of light from 355 quasars and found that as the quasars get near the axis, the polarisation becomes more ordered than expected. Taken together, the polarisation angles from the quasars seem to corkscrew around the axis. ... snip ... The quasar finding has support from another study, however. Michael Longo of the University of Michigan in Ann Arbor analysed 1660 spiral galaxies from the Sloan Digital Sky Survey and found that the axes of rotation of most galaxies appear to line up with the axis of evil (www.arxiv.org/astro-ph/0703325). According to Longo, the probability of this happening by chance is less than 0.4 per cent."

And how do Big Bang thinkers solve this problem? Of course ... tweek the inflation gnome. Continuing from the above link ...

"One way to create the axis was presented by Contaldi at a conference on outstanding questions in cosmology at Imperial College last month. The universe is thought to be isotropic because the early universe went through a period of exponential expansion known as inflation, smoothing out any unevenness. Contaldi and his colleagues ... snip ... modified inflation to allow the universe to expand more in one direction."

Sorry ... but inflation is a GNOME. It will be anything you want it to be in order to explain away any contradictory observation. :D And if that doesn't work, the mainstream will just invent another magic gnome ...

"Longo favours a more radical theory ... snip ... which suggests that magnetic fields stretched across the universe could be responsible (New Scientist, 2 September 2006, p 28). "A magnetic field would naturally orient the spiral galaxies," says Longo. Regardless of the reasons, one thing is clear: the axis of evil won't be written off any time soon. "Interest keeps growing as people find more weirdly connected observations that can't all be put down to coincidence," says Land."

And lest you think Big Bang's problems with WMAP data end there ...

http://www.spacedaily.com/reports/C...e_Of_Radiation_In_Interstellar_Space_999.html "Cosmological Data Affected By An Unexpected Source Of Radiation In Interstellar Space ... Nov 13, 2007, The widely lauded discovery of small-scale structure in the cosmic microwave background may be seriously affected by a previously unidentified source of radio emission in our own Milky Way Galaxy. This is the conclusion arrived at by Dr. Gerrit Verschuur, Adjunct Professor of Physics at the University of Memphis. ... snip ... Verschuur was studying data from the first ever all-sky survey of interstellar neutral hydrogen (HI) when he noticed intriguing similarities to the structure observed by the Microwave Anisotropy Probe (WMAP) spacecraft. ... snip ... The anisotropy detected with WMAP confirms a discovery made a decade earlier by the Cosmic Background Explorer (COBE) spacecraft. ... snip ... However, if even a small fraction of the anisotropy can be associated with structure in the Milky Way, the cosmological interpretations of the data could be called into question. ... snip ... According to his recent work, it appears that many of the small-scale structures observed by WMAP are correlated with HI. ... snip ... The new discovery, if confirmed, means that the structure superimposed on the cosmic microwave background is produced in the Milky Way and does not have a cosmic origin. Thus the cosmic microwave background signal from the early universe may be smoother than anyone expected, which raises new questions as to how structure ever emerged in the universe to create galaxies."

Not quite the picture you hoped to present? ;)

Black holes have been known to exist for a long time, and observed pretty directly recently.

"observed pretty directly"? ROTFLOL! Try again. They've ONLY been inferred ... from observations that electric universe theorists seem able to explain with far more mundane and proven physics. And without the need to introduce additional gnomes (like magnetic reconnection and frozen-in magnetic fields) to help explain how black holes produce jets.
 
Well that is what I said, that they should be and are considered.

Double layers, Birkeland currents and z-pinches are NOT considered ... not in ANY mainstream source that concludes quasars are black holes; that dark matter and dark energy exist; that magnetic reconnection, tangled magnetic fields and frozen-in magnetic fields are what create jets from black holes, neutron stars and proto-stars; or that claim solar flares, CMES, coronal temperatures, comet behavior, etc are also the result of magnetic reconnection and frozen-in magnetic fields. Is that point just lost on you because of all the egg on your face? Is the fact that magnetic reconnection and frozen-in magnetic fields are bogus physics just lost on you as well? Apparently so.

From my understanding of magnetic reconnection your double layers are the separatrices that divide the magnetic regions being reconnected and coincide with field aligned current sheets or Birkeland current sheets. So your mainstream plasma physics orphans double layers and Birkeland currents are simply going under the more generic names of separatrices and (field aligned) current sheets. Anytime you’re ready, please, come join us in the 21st century of science.

Perhaps you should listen to what Hannes Alfven, a Nobel prize winner in this subject area wrote:

"Again, it should be mentioned that there is no possibility of accounting for the energy of the particles as a result of 'magnetic merging' or of 'magnetic field-line reconnection', or any other mechanism which implies changing magnetic fields in the region of acceleration. In the region of the double layer, the magnetic field during the explosive transient phase is almost constant and cannot supply the required energy (of course, the secondary effects of the explosion also cause changes in the magnetic field)." - Hannes Alfven, Cosmic Plasma, Page 33, Chapter 2.

Alfven explained why ions could be explosively emitted and accelerated by a double layers without the need for "magnetic reconnection". The two are NOT the same as you suggest.

Furthermore, magnetic fields always form a continuum. They don't open and reconnect. Any "connection" happening in a current carrying sheet happens as a result of current flow, not magnetic reconnection. Only electricity forms circuits that make and break connections. And there are no experiments that show "magnetic reconnection" is uniquely different from known electrical behaviors in plasma. The mainstreams gnome "reconnection" is simply a relabeling of phenomena (without true understanding of it) so they can get papers published in a scientific establishment hostile towards electricity. Alfven strongly criticized the idea of reconnection. He did not support it as the mainstream sometimes claim.
 
Actually, the classification is open and closed current sheets. The associated field lines still loop closed. The distinction is about what happens to the flares, not the magnetic fields.

Let me quote from your own link:

"One is characterized by closed current sheets, magnetic-field lines adjacent to these sheets beginning and ending at the Sun's surface."

"The other is characterized by open current sheets, magnetic-field lines adjacent to these sheets beginning at the Sun's surface but extending out into interplanetary space."

Gee ... that seems to contradict what you claim. Here ... maybe this will help you understand:

http://members.cox.net/dascott3/IEEE-TransPlasmaSci-Scott-Aug2007.pdf "Real Properties of Electromagnetic Fields and Plasma in the Cosmos"

Quote:
When all along scientists who did not use Big Bang assumptions had predicted a CMB temperature close to 2.7K and even predicted it would be of radio frequency.

Clue for the clueless: the temperature and the frequency are the same prediction, not two different ones.

Then Big Bang promoters must have been clueless since not one of them predicted CMB would be detected at radio frequencies. :)
 
As to your claim it was "directly observed" last year ... ROTFLOL! How do you "directly observe" something that neither emits nor interacts with electromagnetic radiation?

I'll answer this one, since it indicates again your basic lack of understanding of physics (and might be of interest to others). Dark matter does of course interact with EM radiation - through gravity. A large concentration of DM warps the spacetime nearby, which affects the propagation of photons and causes gravitational lensing.

The bullet cluster observation conclusively confirms the presence of large halos of weakly interacting DM around the two galaxies that collided. Obviously that single observation isn't by itself enough to determine all the characteristics of DM, but it does constrain them significantly, measure the amount of DM (about as expected), and rule out many alternative theories which had been invoked in the past to explain rotation curves (such as MOND).

As for Moffat, he's a mild crackpot. I don't say that in a pejorative sense - he's a smart guy and useful to have around as a kind of gadfly - but in this case (as usual) he's wrong. He's been working on alternative theories for many years, and they've just about all been killed by this observation, so he has a strong incentive to attack it. I'll also note that he's in a minority of essentially one - even the MOND guys have mostly admitted defeat after this observation.

Sorry if you don't approve of it, but DM is an observational fact. Physicists are pretty used to the universe acting its own way, rather than the way we want or expect. You might think about that a little.

http://space.newscientist.com/article/mg19425994.000-axis-of-evil-a-cause-for-cosmic-concern.html : "'Axis of evil' a cause for cosmic concern, 13 April 2007, New Scientist, Zeeya Merali,

This is actually a very interesting topic. Almost certainly the axis has a completely prosaic explanation: when the WMAP data is taken, it is heavily "polluted" by foregrounds, primarily from our galaxy. These must be carefully removed - the process is called "cleaning" - to obtain the primordial power spectrum. This is very difficult to do, and even tiny residuals suffice to explain the axis. The WMAP team delayed their three-year data release by about an extra year to be as certain as possible that they had done that properly, but the axis is still there.

So if foregrounds are not the explanation and the axis really is there in the CMB, it is indeed a major problem - not for the big bang (just the contrary, and you saying so is yet another example of a fundamental misunderstanding of the basics), but for inflation. Some extremely interesting proposals have been put forward to explain it, but I won't bother to discuss them here.
 
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Then Big Bang promoters must have been clueless since not one of them predicted CMB would be detected at radio frequencies. :)

This is false. The bing bang theories predicted that the CMB would have a blackbody spectrum, and it does. A blackbody spectrum emits at ALL frequencies, though it has a characteristic shape with a maximum associated with the temperature of that blackbody (hence the equivalence between the temperature and the wavelength). The specific temperature it should be at is dependent upon the age and expansion rate of the universe, which are properties which need to be observed. Wrong predictions about the specific temperature based upon incorrect estimates of either (and both were hard to determine with the observational equipment available in the late 1940's and 1950's when these ideas were first explored) are neither surprising nor significant in relationship to the theory. What would be significant is any deviation from a blackbody line shape, but there is none within the incredibly accurate measurement accuracy used.

But the peak of the CMB isn't in the radio frequency regime (wavelength > 1 meter) anyways, it's in the microwave frequency regime, with a peak around 2 mm. That's where the 2.7K measurement comes from. If you want to measure the temerpature accurately, you measure around the peak, not in the tail, and the peak is not radio frequency. There are radio frequency components to the spectrum, but that too is completely expected, because as mentioned before, a blackbody spectrum emits at all wavelengths. Any blackbody at any temperature will emit something at radio wave frequencies which can be detected if your sensitivity is high enough.

Have you figured out Gauss's law yet? Because you still haven't come up with a charge (or voltage) for the sun which can power it without causing that excess charge to explode.
 
Exaggerate? I'm just quoting the mainstream and scientific sources.

You're quoting these sources in a calculated manner to say "HA! They can't explain this, therefore the mainstream model is completely wrong and my pet theory is validated!"

There are tentative hypotheses for Holmes's outburst on the pages you've linked, but I notice you're not quoting those. You don't appear willing to give anyone in the mainstream a chance to explain the observed event in your zeal to malign them. You're also ignoring that which contradicts your EU cometary ideas, such as the confirmation of water in the comet's emissions.

Who was it who best predicted what would happen to the Deep Impact mission? It wasn't NASA. In fact, they didn't even come close. It was the Electric comet community. And they scored rather well. http://thunderbolts.info/tpod/2005/arch05/050719deepinterim.htm http://www.mikamar.biz/predictions.htm

Their claims are wrong, BAC, and you're either unable or unwilling to recognize it. The press release I posted earlier today (dated February 2006, some months after this article you posted) describes some of the key science results -- which include surface and subsurface water ice, as well as a significant amount in the ejecta. The other article I provided in my last post includes a graph of Tempel 1's spectra (pre and post impact, weighed against the mainstream model) -- note how the observations match the prediction where water abundance is concerned. Reality is completely in the opposite direction from the material you're quoting at Thunderbolts. They are misinterpreting and/or misrepresenting the facts.

And the sudden eruption of Holmes would fit in very well with their theory. Whereas the mainstream astronomers are shrugging and saying we "may never know the cause". ;)

If their "theory" doesn't match observations or established physics, then no, it does not "fit in very well".

Your first source http://planetary.org/explore/topics/asteroids_and_comets/year2007_comet_holmes.html is, as David likes to say, a pop science website. It is not a scientific report by named scientists who reported a study of the tail like the one I quoted.

Pop-sci? I linked you to Emily Lakdawalla -- she's a planetary scientist. She holds a Master's degree in planetary geology. She writes about astronomy and astronomical events on a regular basis, and excels at communicating high-end information to the average reader. If you feel she's not qualified to offer accurate scientific commentary, you're mistaken.

Nevermind that pages like Thunderbolts are on par with Answers in Genesis in terms of legitimacy and accuracy.

It first makes the statement that "A (BAC - that would be a generic) comet's tail spreads in the direction away from the sun". No argument there. It then says "our view of holmes is almost directly down its tail". But, of course, that statement is not at all inconsistent with the quoted numbers of the astronomers I cited who said the numbers indicate the tail was NOT pointing directly away from the sun as it should but some 33 degrees off from the correct direction. That's still pointing "away".

You're still mired in your misinterpretation that the "possible faint tail-like structure" was deemed to be an ion tail, a conclusion which was never reached, which I've already pointed out.

In fact, this leads to a question. If we are looking "almost directly down its tail", how come the tail only showed up on one side of the coma in images? Wouldn't we expect to see at least some tail on the other side? Given the relative locations of the sun, earth and comet, isn't that more consistent with the Canadian astronomers' conclusion that the tail is pointing some 33 degrees off from where it should be pointing?

Forget the "33 degrees off" bit -- that's part of the preliminary observation which was never determined to be an ion tail.

Lakdawalla uses the phrase "our view on Holmes is almost directly down its tail" in comparing Holmes to last year's brilliant comet McNaught (C/2006 P1), whose dust tail fanned out across the sky for observers in the southern hemisphere. She's not talking about the ion tail in that description.

Your second source http://antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov/apod/ap071105.html says "The blue ion tail is created by the solar wind impacting ions in the coma of Comet Holmes and pushing them away from the Sun. ... snip ... The detail visible in Comet Holmes' tail indicates that the explosion of dust and gas that created this dramatic brightness increase is in an ongoing and complex event." That again does not say how closely the tail is pointing to the direction it should be pointing. And as long as the ions are moving farther from the sun each second, wouldn't that be "away"? That leaves a lot of room.

You seem to think all ion tails must point away from the Sun within some explicit, predetermined measurement of degrees or arcminutes.

Your third source http://www.spaceweather.com/comets/gallery_holmes_page10.htm does not make any statement that I can find regarding the direction the tail is pointing.

That gallery was included to illustrate the ion tail's appearance and how it changed over time. You can use this applet to view the relative positions of the Sun, Earth, and Holmes on the dates corresponding to the imagery.

17pnov7fq9.gif


I thought more of the gallery images included their orientation, but most don't.

But it turns out to have been the developing tail. Right?

As I keep trying to tell you, the "faint tail-like structure" (from your earlier link) was never determined to be an ion tail. You seem stuck on this, perhaps because you think it demonstrates something's wrong with the orientation of the ion tail which later developed, but it does not. You're conflating the two.

But in any case, I find the wording of this NASA POD description interesting. http://antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov/apod/ap071110.html " A beautiful blue ion tail has become visible in deep telescopic images of Comet Holmes. Pointing generally away from the Sun and also planet Earth, the comet's ion tail is seriously foreshortened by our extreme viewing angle." So now it's suddenly "generally" away from the sun when the Rosetta mission site, and many other mainstream sites, previously said comet tails "always" point "directly" away from the sun. How times change. :)

No, you're creating disparity where none exists by quoting different pages which use slightly different language for the same observed characteristic. That's all. They don't all look exactly alike, nor do they have to. You can find some variance by looking through imagery of Halley,West, Hale-Bopp, and others. Some appear longer and straighter. Some fan out. The differences are attributable to several factors.

Or perhaps here's the problem. Turns out there are two types of tails.

Yes, welcome to the wonderful world of astronomy. ;)

http://deepimpact.umd.edu/gallery/jpg/Anatomy2.jpg

Ion (the blue ones) and dust tails (yellow by most descriptions). Many sources (including NASA) say that Ion tails point "directly" (or now "generally") away from the sun. But I wonder ... being ions, shouldn't they be affected by the sun's magnetic field?

Sometimes they are.

If it isn't pointing radially away from the sun then perhaps that's why Holme's ion tail isn't pointing directly away from the sun.

Holmes's looks messier or more "spread out" because the structure is different. Instead of just seeing sublimation from a distinct nucleus and/or coma (as in the multiple images I've linked above), 17P's big "halo" surrounding a dinky 2-3 km nucleus complicates the situation -- the imagery apparently shows more ionization taking place from the outgassed materials than the nucleus/coma.

Those same sources usually say that dust trails can seem to point in other directions besides directly away from the sun ... because as the dust is blown away from the comet by radiation pressure it remains in orbit and may therefore seem to lead or lag behind the coma.

Dust tails generally trace the comet's orbit. Here's a recent example using McNaught.

But the radiation pressure is directly away from the sun, right? So at least the root of a comet's tail (the part nearest the coma) should be aimed directly away from the sun. And in the case of Holmes, because of the sun, earth and comet alignment, the whole tail might actually be pointing directly away from the sun and be hidden by the coma.

Holmes was not leaving behind a significant dust tail like the examples listed above. There's not that much to be hidden.

In fact, maybe that diffuse symmetric cloud we see is just the growing dust tail?

No, the observations are not consistent with a dust tail.

In any case, I think I will agree that there's probably nothing terribly unusual about the direction of comet Holme's Ion tail. Satisfied? :)

Not really, considering all the time you invested arguing to the contrary.

Sorry ... I forgot. The Holmes comments were in a post that the management deleted. (post 50 of http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=99727&highlight=Beachooser&page=2 thread).

I ended up finding them after I asked initially, I just hadn't gone far enough back.

It points away from the sun but your imagery/links did not prove that it points "directly" away or in the direction it should. I am forming the opinion that confusion has arisen because there are two types of tails and one appears to always point "generally" away from the sun and the other usually doesn't point "directly" away (unless the viewing situation is just perfect ... like it may have been with Holmes). Confusion has arisen, I think, because NASA and mainstream astronomers appear to have confused the two in their own websites and press releases.

You're forming an opinion that's still clouded by woo from sites like Thunderbolts. That's the main problem. You should no sooner rush there to "learn" about astronomy or cosmology than you should rush to the Institute for Creation Research to learn about evolution.

If anything has led me astray, it's been the confusion created by NASA and those Canadian astronomers. And let's see if you think I've been "shoehorn"ing all the other data that suggests a problem with NASA's comet model. :)

:rolleyes:

For example, posts 26 and 73 of http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=94229 . But don't worry ... I'll go over some of that data below.

Joy.

No, it's a precise answer. I've stated my case ... consisting of two parts. First, I've posted descriptions and links on NUMEROUS specific observations that the mainstream model does not adequately explain or fails to explain at all. Second, I posted descriptions and links for an alternative that appears to be self consistent and which does indeed seem to explain all the data, including the items that the mainstream model is having so much trouble explaining. And I noted that based on that alternative, predictions were made for the Deep Impact mission which almost all came true ... in stark contrast to NASA's "expectations" regarding what would occur.

Stating that you reject the mainstream model does not answer why you give McCanney's any credence (enough to link to it anyway). That's what I asked about. It's a simple question that you've still avoided answering.

McCanney's model is neither consistent nor explains observations and data. His claims are wrong.

LOL! I'm not defending McCanney's theory. Much of what he says may indeed be nonsense (note that I happen to subscribe to the Electric Comet theory espoused by the Thunderbolts group which is quite different). The point (maybe I should have been clearer) is that NASA's theory of comets is also nonsense ... otherwise they wouldn't be having so much trouble dealing with each and every new observation. The point is that the electric comet theory at least deserves mention on NASAs website. :)

Then why did you link to it saying "Maybe here's the real answer" ? Hmm?

I tell you what ... let me comment on your link's comments about McCanney's comet theory and see if the link you provided as debunking McCanney is itself honest and correct in what it claims.

[prune]

So your source didn't quite tell the full story, did it. :D

[prune]

And here is another false Phil Plait comet related claim:

So I guess both your source and McCanney are unreliable sources. :D

Since you're calling him out, I'll see if Phil is interested in addressing your argument.

Oh, all right. Looking back I guess I did. :)

I know you did. Thanks for at least having the decency to finally admit it.

Let's see if anyone in the mainstream community suggests this:

http://209.85.173.104/search?q=cach...4384.pdf+cme+comets&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=14&gl=us "Geophysical Research Abstracts, Vol. 7, 04384, 2005 ... snip ... Impacts of comets onto the Sun and coronal mass ejections ... snip ... The energy of the impactors which may initiate the evolution of micro-instabilities, reconnection of magnetic field lines and ultimately trigger a CME may be substantially less than the final energy of CME."

You posted this before, and it still isn't relevant to the video you linked. A possible relationship between comets which impact the Sun and CMEs is a whole different ball of wax from a comet allegedly causing a CME from 22 million kilometers away.

Even so, I'm willing to grant that comets probably don't "cause" CMEs. But that doesn't mean the two aren't related in the underlying physics.

Maybe the Giant Purple Space Shrimp™ did it. Without evidence and an appropriate causal mechanism, you might as well claim hidden cosmic crustaceans were responsible.

And I still would like an explanation for how a CME caused a comet tail to disconnect that doesn't involve that magic gnome called "reconnection". :D

Perhaps a more interested party better-versed in physics would be interested in playing whack-a-mole with these last two "issues". I'm not.
 
Dark matter does of course interact with EM radiation - through gravity. A large concentration of DM warps the spacetime nearby, which affects the propagation of photons and causes gravitational lensing.

Lensing is another of the mainstream's, call on it to explain any observation that they otherwise can't explain, gnomes.

Here's such a case. The so-called Einstein Cross, which is four quasars, with redshifts about z = 1.7, in the heart of a low redshift (z=0.04) galaxy. Mainstream astrophysicists claim this

http://apod.nasa.gov/apod/image/0010/qso2237_wiyn.jpg

http://www.holoscience.com/news/img/Einstein Cross.jpg

is just a lensing phenomena. Never mind that Fred Hoyle showed the probability of such a lensing event was less than two in a million (and now there are several other cases like this which is all the more unlikely). Never mind that calculations by Halton Arp suggest that if these were lensed quasars, they should be more elongated around the circumference. But if anything, all four appear to be elongated towards the galaxy center. Never mind that the Hubble Space Telescope has imaged the cross and Halton Arp was able to show that there is connecting material between one of the quasars (D) and the central galaxy. Never mind that the brightness of the four quasars was observed to increase over a period of several years from 1991 to 1994. Arp's explanation is that the galaxy has ejected four quasars, which are growing brighter with age as they move farther from the nucleus. The mainstream's lensing explanation is that individual stars pass in front of the quasar are producing additional gravitational lensing. So now they are not only assuming lensing by a supposed perfectly aligned black hole at the heart of the galaxy but lensing by specific stars in the galaxy too. Never mind that the luminosity of several of the quasars seems to vary independent of one another. Here's a paper, http://vela.astro.ulg.ac.be/themes/dataproc/deconv/articles/q2237/q2237.html#len , that concludes one quasar image's light is being absorbed and reradiated by dust ... which might be the case if the quasars are actually separate objects embedded in the host galaxy but unlikely in a lensing case. Never mind that Chandra observations also indicate that object A has a broad emission line in the Fe/K alpha while objects B,C,D do not. How can this be with a single lensing galaxy? Afterall, according to NASA (http://hubblesite.org/newscenter/archive/releases/1995/43/text/ ), "it is impossible to identify the true gravitational lenses without observations which show the two objects have exactly the same spectral fingerprint and so are "multiple" images of a single object." These don't.

Here's another paper challenging the mainstream interpretation of lensing ...

Ari Brynjolfsson published a paper titled "Hubble constant from lensing in plasma-redshift cosmology, and intrinsic redshift of quasars" (http://adsabs.harvard.edu/abs/2004astro.ph.11666) in 2004 which states "The purpose of the present article is to show that the gravitational lensing observations are in agreement with the plasma-redshift cosmology, and to show how to evaluate the lensing observations based on the new plasma-redshift cosmology. The lensing observations also indicate that the quasars have large intrinsic redshifts."

The bullet cluster observation conclusively confirms the presence of large halos of weakly interacting DM around the two galaxies that collided.

Sorry, even with some sort of lensing affecting light from this object, there is more to the story. A major assumption is that all of the baryonic matter is in the form of hot plasma or bright stars in the galaxies. The mainstream claims that the total amount of gravitating matter, as measured by gravitational lensing, does not correlate with the amount of hot plasma, as measured by x-rays. The mainstream claims that the gravitating matter is associated with the galaxies, and since the gravitating mass is much greater than the mass in easily-visible stars, and there is no other baryonic matter, the mass must be dark matter. The flaw in this argument is the assumption that all the ordinary matter in galaxies is in easily-visible, bright, stars. Instead, most of the mass of galaxies may well be in the form of dwarf stars, which produce very little light per unit mass. Several studies of galaxies have shown that they have enormous halos of dim dwarf and giant red stars (see http://www.berkeley.edu/news/media/releases/99legacy/1-6-1999.html , http://www.space.com/scienceastronomy/astronomy/dark_matter_011205.html , http://www.sciencemag.org/cgi/content/summary/291/5512/2293a?ck=nck , http://www.ucsc.edu/news_events/press_releases/text.asp?pid=1005 ). And there is evidence that a huge amount of mass may be found in relatively cool clouds of plasma that would be closer to the galaxies than the hot plasma. So your proof of dark matter in no way proves the existence of dark matter.

Also, perhaps lensing is tied to redshift and the charge of the sun ... one nice, neat package ... http://www.plasmaphysics.org.uk/research/lensing.htm "Plasma Theory of 'Gravitational Lensing' of Light". :D

As for Moffat, he's a mild crackpot.

I guess that's your word for anyone who disagrees with the existence of your mountain of gnomes and suggests there is a far simpler explanation.

For those who are interested, here's http://washparkprophet.blogspot.com/2008/01/has-jw-moffat-figured-it-out.html "03 January 2008, Has J.W. Moffat figured it out?"

Modified Gravitational Theory as an Alternative to Dark Energy and Dark Matter, J. W. Moffat, http://arxiv.org/abs/astro-ph/0403266 , 2004.

Gravitational Theory, Galaxy Rotation Curves and Cosmology without Dark Matter, J. W. Moffat, JCAP 0505 (2005) 003, http://arxiv.org/abs/astro-ph/0412195 .

Gravitational solution to the Pioneer 10/11 anomaly, J. R. Brownstein, J. W. Moffat, http://arxiv.org/abs/gr-qc/0511026 , 6 Nov 2005, revised 2007.

Gravitational Lensing in Modified Gravity and the Lensing of Merging Clusters without Dark Matter, J. W. Moffat, http://arxiv.org/abs/astro-ph/0608675 , 2006.

Galaxy Cluster Masses Without Non-Baryonic Dark Matter, J. R. Brownstein, J. W. Moffat, Mon. Not. Roy. Astron. Soc. 367 (2006) 527, http://arxiv.org/abs/astro-ph/0507222.

Galaxy Rotation Curves Without Non-Baryonic Dark Matter, J. R. Brownstein, J. W. Moffat, Astrophys. J. 636 (2006) 721, http://arxiv.org/abs/astro-ph/0506370 .

The Bullet Cluster 1E0657-558 evidence shows Modified Gravity in the absence of Dark Matter, J. R. Brownstein, J. W. Moffat, http://arxiv.org/abs/astro-ph/0702146 , 2007.

You want to talk about crackpot ideas? Here's one ...

http://users.msu.dubna.ru/~johncorner/resourse/2004sep.pdf "Scientific American ... snip ... In 1996 Discover magazine ran an April Fool's story about giant particles called "bigons" that could be responsible for all sorts of inexplicable phenomena. Now in a case of life imitating art, some physicists are proposing that the universe's mysterious dark matter consists of great big particles, light years or more across. ... This idea arose to explain a puzzling fact about dark matter: although it clumps on the vastest scales, creating bodies such as galaxy clusters, it seems to resist clumping on smaller scales." :D

So if foregrounds are not the explanation and the axis really is there in the CMB, it is indeed a major problem - not for the big bang (just the contrary, and you saying so is yet another example of a fundamental misunderstanding of the basics), but for inflation.

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qn4158/is_20060201/ai_n16028473 "If the standard big bang picture of the Universe is correct, the blotches and freckles should be scattered randomly about the sky. "The big surprise is they are not," says Chris Vale of the University of California at Berkeley. "The quadrupole and octupole blotches are aligned with each other - along the axis of evil." I don't know ... that certainly suggests the standard big bang model may be in trouble if the axis of evil is real.

And from the same source: "some physicists wonder whether the axis of evil requires a rethink of our ideas about the Universe. They include Joao Magueijo at Imperial College in London, who coined the term "the axis of evil". According to Magueijo, there may be something seriously wrong with our big bang models." So does that.

http://www.zpenergy.com/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=1465 "Magueijo and Land are convinced that the alignment in the patterns does exist. "The big question is: what could have caused it," asks Magueijo. One possibility, he says, is that the universe is shaped like a slab, with space extending to infinity in two dimensions but spanning only about 20 billion light years in the third dimension. Or the universe might be shaped like a bagel. Another way to create a preferred direction would be to have a rotating universe, because this singles out the axis of rotation as different from all other directions. ... snip ... Clearly, such a universe would flout a fundamental assumption of all big bang models: that the universe is the same in all places and in all directions. "People made these assumptions because, without them, it was impossible to simplify Einstein's equations enough to solve them for the universe," says Magueijo. And if those assumptions are wrong, it could be curtains for the standard model of cosmology." ... snip ... Meanwhile the axis of evil is peculiar enough that Bennett and his colleague Gary Hinshaw have obtained money from NASA to carry out a five-year exhaustive examination of the WMAP signals. ... snip ... From issue 2506 of New Scientist magazine, 02 July 2005, page 30"

The reality is that even if just inflation is wrong, the Big Bang model is in real trouble. Because inflation is a fundamental gnome. :D
 
Originally Posted by BeAChooser
Then Big Bang promoters must have been clueless since not one of them predicted CMB would be detected at radio frequencies.

This is false. The bing bang theories predicted that the CMB would have a blackbody spectrum, and it does. A blackbody spectrum emits at ALL frequencies,

Regardless, CMB was first detected at radio frequencies and Gamow, who strangely gets credit for predicting the CMB temperature of 2.7K despite not getting even remotely close to the actual temperature, never suggested trying that. In fact, none of the Big Bang proponents did. It's confirmation from the point of view of Big Bang proponents was a fluke.

The specific temperature it should be at is dependent upon the age and expansion rate of the universe, which are properties which need to be observed. Wrong predictions about the specific temperature based upon incorrect estimates of either (and both were hard to determine with the observational equipment available in the late 1940's and 1950's when these ideas were first explored) are neither surprising nor significant in relationship to the theory.

Well I'm curious. Were estimates of the age and expansion rate getting worse as time went by? Because Gamow went from predicting a temperature of 5K to 50K just before it was "discovered" by Penzias and Wilson in 1965. :D

What would be significant is any deviation from a blackbody line shape, but there is none within the incredibly accurate measurement accuracy used.

Also, it wasn't until 1964, one year before P&W's discovery that someone in the Big Bang community actually predicted it would have a black body spectrum.

But non-Big Bang proponents predicted that well before the Big Bang was proposed. In 1937, Adams and Dunham found absorption lines, later identified with interstellar CN. In 1940, the Canadian astrophysicist Andrew McKellar analyzed that data and calculated that the CN molecules were in thermal equilibrium with a temperature of about 2.3 K. The source was taken to be black body radiation.

We find that Guillaume in 1896 (prior to Gamow's birth) predicted a background (for the "starry sky") temperature of 5-6 K using Stefan's formula for a blackbody. And in 1926, Sir Arthur Eddington in his book, "The Internal Constitution of the Stars", refined that estimate. He said this phenomenon was not due to some ancient explosion, but rather was simply the background radiation from all of the heat sources that occupy the Universe. He calculated the minimum temperature to which any particular body in space would cool, given the fact that such bodies constantly are immersed in the radiation of distant starlight. With no adjustable parameters and again using Stefan's blackbody formula, he obtained a value of 3.18K (later refined to 2.8). He wrote "In a region of space not in the neighbourhood of any star this constitutes the whole field of radiation, and a black body, e.g., a black bulb thermometer, will there take up a temperature of 3.18 so that its emission may balance the radiation falling on it and absorbed by it. This is sometimes called ‘temperature of interstellar space.’"

Yet Gamow gets credit for predicting the CMB temperature of 2.7K in mainstream source after mainstream source. Go figure ...

Some might find this interesting: http://www.dfi.uem.br/~macedane/history_of_2.7k.html "Our conclusion is that the discovery of the CBR by Penzias and Wilson is a decisive facto in favour of a Universe in dynamical equilibrium, and against models of an expanding Universe, such as the Big Bang and the steady-state."
 

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