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Death Star Galaxy

I don't know. That is why I asked. None of the astronomy courses I took ever mentioned plasma or electricity in regards to stellar events.

What astronomy classes did you take? Because if you took any classes for non-majors, I can pretty much guarantee they aren't going to resemble the kinds of classes majors take.

Do any current ones?

Plasmas? I'm quite sure they do. Electricity? I'm guessing not so much. But electricity isn't the driving force for stars, fusion is, so that oversight at the undergrad level is not exactly surprising or even terribly relevant.

What courses actually teach plasma physics, electromagnetism (in regards to stars/galaxies), or electricity in regards to outer space?

Electromagnetism in space is no different than electromagnetism anywhere else. Maxwell's equations are equally valid everywhere. There's no need to teach about electricity "in regards to outer space" because there's no bloody point in doing so. There's no difference.

I'm sure electromagnetism in and around stars is one of the least understood branches of science.

Based on... what? A rigorous survey of the entire field of physics? A statistical analysis of peer-reviewed articles? Or some casual reading on the internet?

I asked several recent graduates and none of them were taught anything about plasma physics, much less electromagnetism in regards to solar physics.

I bet they could all do the calculations I did, though. The electric universe folks... not so much. They seem averse to calculations of any sort.
 
http://w3.pppl.gov/gradprogram/Misc/NewStudentInfo.html

Well, I thought this had to be the case. How can you study the sun and not study plasma and electromagnetism and electricity and all that? It would be absurd.

http://www.astro.umd.edu/courses/class.html

Some places don't teach much plasma stuff.

Which places don't teach much plasma stuff? Not UMD, if that was your point ...

  • ASTR 601 -- Radiative Processes (3 credits)
    Prerequisite: permission of department. Emission, absorption, and scattering of radiation by matter, with astrophysical applications. Thermodynamics and statistical mechanics: LTE, Boltzmann, and Saha equations; radiative transfer; atomic and molecular radiation; plasma radiation and transfer; bremsstrahlung, synchrotron emisison, Compton scattering.
  • ASTR 606 -- Stellar Structure and Evolution (3 credits)
    Prerequisite: ASTR 601 or permission of department. Models of stellar atmospheres, methods of determining properties of stars, physical principles governing stellar interiod processes, observational data for determining stellar evolution, nuclear processes, stellar modeling.
  • ASTR 640 -- Radiation and Plasma Processes (3 credits)
    Corequisite: PHYS 606 or permission of department. Radiation processes with emphasis on radiation from energetic electrons, synchrotron and inverse-Compton radiation, bremsstrahlung and astrophysical applications. The plasma dielectric and the "zoo" of plasma waves. Use of kinetic theory to derive fluid dynamics; discussion of MHD in its various limits of astrophysical use; some instabilities.
  • ASTR 670 -- Interstellar Medium and Gas Dynamics (3 credits)
    Prerequisite: ASTR 601 or permission of department. Content of phases of the interstellar medium: physical processes in the ISM: ionization equilibrium, heating and cooling, interstellar dust; gas dynamics: fluid motions, instabilities, shock waves; magnetohydrodynamics.
 
Where did you find 640? That was the kind of class I was looking for. It isn't on the list.
 
I think there is some truth to the claims that many scientist just don't understand electricity and magnetism, much less plasma physics. They just don't take those classes in school.

:confused:

http://w3.pppl.gov/gradprogram/Misc/NewStudentInfo.html

Well, I thought this had to be the case. How can you study the sun and not study plasma and electromagnetism and electricity and all that? It would be absurd.

:confused: :confused:

Yes, it really would be absurd, wouldn't it? What I don't understand is why that wasn't just as obvious to you this morning as it is now...
 
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Here is an example of NASA collecting data about electricity, magnetism and plasmas in space, no less.
 
Originally Posted by BeAChooser
You CAN'T just stop the current.

Sure you can. You flip a switch. And what happens to the magnetic fields along that wire? Or better yet, what happens to the magnetic fields in a plasma ball ... you know, the kind they sell in stores?

You can only slow it down by providing resistance, and when you do that, Maxwell's equations (changing magnetic fields generate electric fields) will continue to drive those currents for some time.

Ah ... but for how long? Remember, astrophysicists claim the magnetic fields are "frozen-in"to solar plasmas and carry that magnetic field to the corona and even across the solar system. How long does that take? And do your readers know that astrophysicists even talk of frozen-in magnetic fields of primordial origin? Can plasmas really retain a magnetic field that long?

If there is no resistance to the current flow (as in the case of a superconducting magnet with a persistence switch), then the field won't ever decrease.

But plasma does offer resistance. Which is why Alfven, a recognized expert in this subject who in fact invented the notion of frozen-in plasmas in the first place, finally concluded there can be no frozen-in magnetic fields in light plasmas. Here is some of what he said:

"The electrical conductivity of any material, including plasma, is determined by two factors: the density of the population of available charge carriers (the ions) in the material, and the mobility of these carriers. In any plasma, the mobility of the ions is extremely high. Electrons and ions can move around very freely in space. But the concentration of ions available to carry charge may not be at all high if the plasma is very low pressure or diffuse. In short, although plasmas are excellent conductors, they are not perfect. It therefore follows that weak electric fields can exist inside them, and magnetic fields are NOT frozen inside them."

"The concepts of 'frozen-in magnetic field lines' and 'field-line reconnection', which are frequently used in discussions of the theory of the magnetosphere, have been criticized by Alfven and Falthammar (1971), by Heikkila (1973), and by Alfven (1975). In the present paper, it is demonstrated that both concepts are unnecessary and often misleading. The frozen-in concept is shown to belong to the pseudo-plasma formalism which is useful only in special cases."

"I thought that the frozen-in concept was very good from a pedagogical point of view, and indeed it became very popular. In reality, however, it was not a good pedagogical concept but a dangerous "pseudopedagogical concept." By "pseudopedagogical" I mean a concept which makes you believe that you understand a phenomenon whereas in reality you have drastically misunderstood it."

"At that time (1950) we already knew enough to understand that a frozen-in treatment of the magnetosphere was absurd. But I did not understand why the frozen-in concept was not applicable."

"In 1963, Fälthammar and I published the second edition of Cosmical Electrodynamics [12] together. ... snip ... We analyzed the consequences of this in some detail, and demonstrated with a number of examples that in the presence of an E|| the frozen-in model broke down. On [12, p. 191] we wrote: 'In low density plasmas the concept of frozen-in lines of force is questionable. The concept of frozen-in lines of force may be useful in solar physics where we have to do with high- and medium-density plasmas, but may be grossly misleading if applied to the magnetosphere of the earth. To plasma in interstellar space it should be applied with some care.'"

"Since then I have stressed in a large number of papers the danger of using the frozen-in concept ... snip ... The most important criticism of the 'merging' mechanism of energy transfer is due to Heikkila [40] who, with increasing strength, has demonstrated that it is wrong. In spite of all this, we have witnessed at the same time an enormously voluminous formalism building up based on this obviously erroneous concept. Indeed, we have been burdened with a gigantic pseudoscience which penetrates large parts of cosmic plasma physics."

So have frozen in magnetic fields of sufficient duration been proven in laboratory experiments with astrophysically similar plasmas? How long does it take the filaments in a plasma sphere to disappear if you turn off the current, Ziggurat?
 
Black holes weren't invented to solve anything, as that page pretends, they are an inescapable result of Einstein's field equations for gravity.

Black holes were "predicted" by one of the solutions to Einstein's equation of general relativity. But there are other solutions that lead to a universe that doesn't seem to require black holes, dark matter, inflation and dark energy. And just because something is allowed, doesn't mean it is to be found in nearly every object out there. Mainstream astronomers are now using it as an easy crutch rather than looking deeper for other causes ... particularly electromagnetic causes. They postulate the existence of black holes in literally hundreds of millions of astronomical objects.

And even within the Big Bang solution to GR, there are other theories, such as the Magnetospheric Eternally Collapsing Object (MECO), to explain the observations the mainstream claim are due to only black holes. And plasma physicists like Peratt and Lerner have provided other explanations for those phenomena too. The mainstream simply ignores them ... even though they can demonstrate their explanations in state of the art computer codes and in the laboratory. They ignore them because without black holes, the Big Bang gnome is in deep trouble.

Furthermore, don't you know that nature abhores singularities? Electrical engineers use equations all the time that contain singularities ... where certain inputs cause the output values to go to infinity. And these are equations that are as precisely known as GR. But in the REAL WORLD, what is modeled in those equations does NOT happen under the given inputs ... the outputs don't go to infinity ... it doesn't blow up.

And EVERY test of those field equations, from the precession of Mercury's orbit to confirmed gravitational lensing around the sun to gravitational time dilation to the recent observation of frame dragging confirms those field equations.


Quantum electrodynamics, QED, one of the most thoroughly tested theories of all (even more so than GR) and one of the most precise ever developed contains singularities in its equations. But folks who were still connected to the real world renormalized them out. Just because a mathematical theory has singularities in it, doesn't mean the real world has to have them. Only mathematicians think that.

http://blog.case.edu/case-news/2007/06/20/blackholes "June 20, 2007, Black holes don't exist, Case physicists report"

Funny thing, though, but from a practical perspective, this doesn't really change anything. Externally, these objects would behave pretty much the same way conventional black holes do. It's only near the event horizon, where we can't get to, where anything would change. So if black holes are somehow problematic for an electric universe model, these things would be too. If an electric universe model would prohibit conventional black holes, it would prohibit these too. These links don't give you an out.

You should have dug deeper. Here's what the lead researcher in that study, Lawrence Krauss, had to say: http://sciencenow.sciencemag.org/cgi/content/full/2007/621/1 "If black holes radiate away their mass over time, as Hawking showed, then they should evaporate before they even form, Krauss says. It would be like pouring water into a glass that has no bottom. In essence, physicists have been arguing over a trick question for 40 years. Asked why then the universe nevertheless seems to be full of black holes, Krauss replies, 'How do you know they're black holes?' No one has actually seen a black hole, he says, and anything with a tremendous amount of gravity--such as the supermassive remnants of stars--could exert effects similar to those researchers have blamed on black holes. 'All of our calculations suggest this is quite plausible,' Krauss says." And a plasmoid of the type postulated by plasma cosmologists like Peratt and Lerner at the center of galaxies would be a very massive object. BUT, unlike mainstream astrophysicists, they don't just ignore the electromagnetic effects which would create and affect such objects. The question is why do you? Because you still don't think most of the universe is made of plasma? :)

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Are you aware that the American Physical Society just recently announced that it now acknowledges Electric Universe/Plasma Cosmology as a legitimate field of study?

I seriously doubt it. The APS isn't in the habit of declaring what is and isn't a legitimate field of study. That's not really part of their job. And I note you don't have a link for that.

Fair enough. I can't find a direct statement from them either. But I do note that various scientific organization (http://www.plasma-universe.com/index.php/Electric_Space ) recently organized traveling presentations titled "Electric Space: Exploring Our Plasma Universe" and "Electric Space: Bolts, Jolts, and Volts from the Sun" that went around the country to encourage our youth to go into this area of research (rather than gravity ... wink!). I'm sure much of it contained the mainstream/NASA party line but looking at the list of subtopics on the displays, maybe there was more to it than you might imagine. :)

There should be no variations in the lineshape, and none are observed. And no competing theory can explain that.

I believe I provided several sources that directly challenge that last statement. Do you just ignore them?

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And, by the way, you are still ASSUMING the CMB is coming from the edge of the universe.

No, actually, I'm not assuming that at all.

Yes, you are. Some of the WMAP observations clearly suggest it isn't. Where are the cluster shadows, Ziggurat? What's causing the axis of evil, Ziggurat? Just for starters ...

No other theory predicts a blackbody spectrum. You keep on ignoring that point, but it will not go away.

I didn't ignore it. I provided several eminent sources (including at least one peer reviewed scientific article) that says just the opposite. But you ignored THAT. :)

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That's false. Plasma cosmologists such as Eric Lerner have proposed that plasma filaments are the cause. These would scatter the radiation into a blackbody spectrum.

Why should they do that?

Sigh ...

Tell us Ziggurat ... why does radiation longer than about 100 microns decrease more rapidly with distance than radiation shorter than 100 microns? Such an absorption has been demonstrated by comparing radio and far-infrared radiation from galaxies at various distances -- the more distant, the greater the absorption effect. Why?
 
Black holes were "predicted" by one of the solutions to Einstein's equation of general relativity. But there are other solutions that lead to a universe that doesn't seem to require black holes, dark matter, inflation and dark energy.

You betray your ignorance yet again. Using GR to figure out possible cosmologies is a different problem than using it to solve for the gravitational field of localized masses (ie, stars, planets, and black holes). There is no cosmology which will remove black holes as possibilities.

And just because something is allowed, doesn't mean it is to be found in nearly every object out there.

I never said otherwise. But the EU folks aren't merely saying that black holes aren't as common as believed. They're saying that they aren't possible, that they had to be invented to fix some hole in the theory. And both them AND you seem to be under the mistaken impression that there's some intrinsic connection between the existence of black holes and cosmology solutions which include a big bang. Which demonstrates that they (and you) are clueless about general relativity.

And even within the Big Bang solution to GR, there are other theories, such as the Magnetospheric Eternally Collapsing Object (MECO), to explain the observations the mainstream claim are due to only black holes. And plasma physicists like Peratt and Lerner have provided other explanations for those phenomena too. The mainstream simply ignores them ... even though they can demonstrate their explanations in state of the art computer codes and in the laboratory.

That's funny, but it seems to me like MECO's have made it into publication. That's not exactly being ingored. And whether or not they're correct about black hole candidates forming MECO's instead of actual black holes, that doesn't make any difference to cosmology, and it doesn't make any difference in what powers the sun.

Furthermore, don't you know that nature abhores singularities?

Yet more handwaving. That's a platitude, not a theory.

Electrical engineers use equations all the time that contain singularities ... where certain inputs cause the output values to go to infinity. And these are equations that are as precisely known as GR.

Those equations are approximations. Doesn't matter how "precisely" you know an approximation, it's still an approximation. And approximations tend to break down in certain regimes. It may turn out that GR is likewise an approximation, but we've never been able to find where it breaks down. In contrast, we know exactly where Newtonian gravity breaks down.

You should have dug deeper.

Why? Doesn't make any difference to either cosmology or to the power source of the sun (something I note you're not even bothering to talk about, even though it's absolutely central to the theories you're trying to support).

I believe I provided several sources that directly challenge that last statement. Do you just ignore them?

No. But they didn't directly address that at all. Saying that some filiments should "thermalize" the radiation they recieve doesn't tell you why it should become a perfect blackbody emitter. It shouldn't. That they merely state it should isn't enough.

Tell us Ziggurat ... why does radiation longer than about 100 microns decrease more rapidly with distance than radiation shorter than 100 microns? Such an absorption has been demonstrated by comparing radio and far-infrared radiation from galaxies at various distances -- the more distant, the greater the absorption effect. Why?

Because whatever's doing the absorbing is not absorbing as a blackbody. Duh. So it shouldn't be emitting as a blackbody either.

But according to the EU folks, this statement is nonsensical anyways, since those distance measurements come from redshift, and they don't believe redshift = distance. So why are you even asking for justification for an observation your theory doesn't think is correct in the first place?

How old is the universe, BAC? I've asked you this before, and you ignored it. Pick a range as big as you want if you're not certain.
 
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If material is in thermal equilibrium, it should give a blackbody spectrum.

Laughably wrong.

http://www.mi.infm.it/manini/dida/BlackBody.notes.html "a perfectly "black" surface ... snip ... kept at a given temperature emits the spectrum RB of electromagnetic fields in thermal equilibrium. This explains the name black-body radiation."

http://www.bbc.co.uk/dna/h2g2/A270037 "A black body is in thermal equilibrium with its surroundings."

http://eo.ucar.edu/skymath/tmp2.html "equilibrium thermal radiation is therefore called black body radiation."

http://csep10.phys.utk.edu/astr162/lect/light/radiation.html "Generally, blackbody conditions apply when the radiator has very weak interaction with the surrounding environment and can be considered to be in a state of equilibrium. ... snip ... Blackbody radiation corresponds to radiation from bodies in thermal equilibrium."

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Space filled with filaments and whiskers could create such an equilibrium.

I thought you were opposed to the idea of deducing the existence of things we cannot directly observe. That's your entire objection to dark matter.

Wrong. Plasma filaments are not deduced. We actually do observe them everywhere we look in space and around us ... at all scales.

We also know that iron whiskers exist. We can create them in our labs. For your info ...

http://www.newscientist.com/article...ld-take-another-look-at-the-alternatives.html "Recent work on cosmic grains-small particles of iron, carbon and the like found in interstellar space-has turned up a promising candidate: an iron whisker about 1 millimetre long and 1 micrometre wide. Laboratory experiments show that slowly cooled metallic vapours do condense into such whiskers. Because metals are expected to be ejected in supernova explosions, such whiskers could very well form in theexpanding envelopes of supernovae. Significantly, the spectrum of the Crab Nebula pulsar (which is the relic of a supernova) shows a dip in the range of wavelengths from 30 micrometres to 10 centimetres, which are just the wavelengths where we would expect iron whiskers to absorb radiation. Once produced in supernovae in galaxies, these whiskers would (in a reasonably short time compared with cosmological time scales of 10 billion years) ultimately be pushed out into the intergalactic space by radiation pressure. Calculations show that such particles could very efficiently wipe out any underlying unevenness in radiation from stars and galaxies."

http://www.news.cornell.edu/releases/Jan02/CanisMajoris.bpf.html "About 5,000 light years away across our Milky Way galaxy, a highly brilliant star called VY Canis Majoris has long been thought to have smoke in its eyes because most of its light is blacked out by a cloud. ... snip ... Using the European Space Agency's Infrared Space Observatory (ISO), Harwit and his colleagues have found that this smoke consists of tiny particles of two dominant kinds: one made up of grains of iron in a highly elongated form called "whiskers" ... "

http://www.springerlink.com/content/r74xt634n1803256/ "It is shown that ~ 102 M of iron in the form of long slender whiskers, expelled from supernovae, can explain an observed deficit of line emission in the 157.7µm C II line and in the 205µm N II line from the galactic centre region."

The objection I have to the majority of what must constitute dark matter (and dark energy) is that it must consist of a form that has not been observed at all (despite 30 years of looking) and which has characteristics such that it's only interaction is via gravity, making it most unusual.

Once again: they did not predict that the background radiation would be a blackbody spectrum.

And mainstream theorists didn't predict that the universe would be filamentary in structure. So we are even. :)

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The fact that Gamow got the temperature so wrong might suggest the mechanisms he postulated for creating that energy might be wrong too. Don't you think?

Or it might not. People are fallible.

And so are theories. Does redshift always equate to distance? Let's just be honest for once. You don't really know. But you are acting like you do and your whole cosmological model depends on the relationship being absolute. Because if it's not ... :)

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They postulate that galaxy and star formation proceed very readily when hydrogen is condensed on grains but not when it is gaseous, and the universal microwave background temperature is that associated with galaxy formation. The solution for the black-body emission shape might be the special properties of the particles, which are not normal dust particles".

Once again, you're inventing properties of matter to fit the theory.

Not at all. You just misunderstand what they wrote. We know the properties of whiskers and filaments. We know such things actually exist. And we know they scatter radiation. The above just states that the solution for the black-body emission shape might only depend on those properties ... not on a Big Bang. And calculations published in peer reviewed journals and books by renowned scientists (some of which I linked above) conclude that such known properties could indeed explain the CMB spectrum. Just as known electromagnetic effects could explain the rotation curves of galaxies. Dark matter isn't needed.

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This source notes that "the quasi-steady state model argues that there is a distribution of whiskers"

Whiskers of what? Perfectly black material?

Iron. And they don't have to be perfectly black. They just have to scatter radiation. Which we know iron whiskers can do.

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Opaqueness is required only in a finite universe, an infinite universe can achieve thermodynamic equilibrium even if transparent out to very large distances".

What a joke. You can't reach thermodynamic equilibrium unless everything is the same temperature. But since the CMB is rather obviously not at the same temperature as stars are, we're clearly NOT in thermal equilibrium. Which is also why a steady-state model is laughably wrong.

Well I can see it's hopeless trying to make you understand what they are talking about. You don't want to understand. Because you know you (and your gnomes) are right. :D And by the way, I'm not promoting the "steady-state" model. Nor is Hoyle and company any longer. Their model is now called the "Quasi-Continuous Creation Cosmology" or "Quasi-Steady State Cosmology".

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The source then describes a second alternative ... Eric Lerner's proposed solution, which is that "electrons in intergalactic magnetic fields emit and absorb microwave radiation.

Not in a blackbody spectrum, they don't.

Not after a single interaction, but after many such interactions, they produce a field of matter in thermal equilibrium and thus a blackbody spectrum. I've provided some sources proving this phenomena. Here:

http://ieeexplore.ieee.org/Xplore/login.jsp?url=/iel1/27/1720/00045502.pdf "Prediction of the submillimeter spectrum of the cosmic background radiation by a plasma model"

http://www.springerlink.com/content/n4673j2438430733/ " Confirmation of radio absorption by the intergalactic medium"

http://209.85.173.104/search?q=cach...bsorb+cmb+filaments&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=18&gl=us "Observational Cosmology: caveats and open questions in the standard model ... snip ... May 16, 2006 ... snip ... In the fifties, it was pointed out that if the observed abundance of He was obtained by hydrogen burning in stars, there must have been a phase in the history of the Universe when the radiation density was much higher than the energy density of starlight today. ... snip ... If this energy is thermalized, the black body temperature turns out to be T = 2.76 K, very close to the observed temperature for the CMBR. Hence, there is a likely explanation of the energy of the microwave radiation in terms of straightforward astrophysics involving hydrogen burning in stars."

http://www.earthtech.org/publications/ibison_ccci.pdf "Thermalization of Starlight in the Steady-State Cosmology"

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This prediction agrees with the fact that the number of radio sources increases much more slowly than the number of optical sources with distance;

But this statement requires that we accept redshift = distance

No it doesn't. But nice try.

Steady-state models violate the 2nd law of thermodynamics. They can be dismissed out of hand for that alone.

The model currently proposed by Gold, Bondi, Hoyle, Narlikar, Burbidge and others is not a "steady-state" model in the sense you want to imply. It's a continuous creation model (quasi-steady state) based on a different solution to the equation of general relativity ... one that didn't ASSUME the mass of the universe is a constant. Why did we have to assume that? It allows for the creation of matter even now under certain circumstances (which follow from the solution equations). Think of it as an ongoing string of mini-bangs without all the problems of the Big Bang model ... i.e., the need for inflation, dark matter, dark energy, black holes, etc. :D There is also the Self Creation Cosmology (SCC) model (see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Self-creation_cosmology ) which also allows for ongoing creation of matter and avoids the need for your numerous gnomes. Neither approach seems to violates the 2nd law of thermodynamics ... no more than the Big Bang cosmology did in the beginning. ;)

If the steady state universe was right, the intergallactic medium shouldn't thermalize to 2.7K, it should thermalize to the same temperature as stars. The night sky would be white, and earth would boil to a crisp.

You presume to know everything about the universe. But you forget that the universe is expanding, even in the quasi-steady state (and old steady state) models. :)
 
There we have it. Ziggurat's first error of the thread.

So are you another one who thinks the jets in the Death Star aren't made of plasma ... and that most of the observed matter in the universe isn't plasma? :)

The original prediction based on the big bang was wrong. However, the justification for the prediction was clearly laid out. The current age of the universe, in the big bang model, is an ingredient in the required calculation. The wrong age used at the that time gave the wrong temperature and the right spectrum. Later, as in today, using the currently know age of the universe, 13.7 billion years, and the same method used back then, gives the right temparture.

By the way, you are wrong here as well. As I noted earlier: http://www.ias.ac.in/resonance/July2004/July2004p32-43.html "And Gamow said, Let there be a Hot Universe, Somak Raychaudhury ... snip ... Gamow carried out a very rough but clever calculation, without the use of his complicated nucleosynthesis ideas, and came up with a value of 7 degrees Kelvin for the current temperature of the primordial soup (see Box 1). His ex-student Alpher, along with Robert Herman, subsequently calculated this properly, such that the right proportion of hydrogen to helium was produced in the early Universe, and came up with a very similar prediction: 5 degrees K." This source shows the calculation Gamow performed to come up with the value of 7 degrees which he notes was published in an obscure Danish journal in 1953 and in it Gamow assumed the universe was 3 billion years old. Raychaudhury points out that if Gamow had used the current Big Bang values of the age and density of matter, he'd have gotten a temperature 5 times larger."
 
You presume to know everything about the universe.

Not at all. But I know enough electrodynamics to be able to figure out that electricity cannot possibly power the sun. And I demonstrated that with calculations. You, evidently, don't know it even when it's been demonstrated to you.
 
http://www.mi.infm.it/manini/dida/BlackBody.notes.html
The objection I have to the majority of what must constitute dark matter (and dark energy) is that it must consist of a form that has not been observed at all (despite 30 years of looking) and which has characteristics such that it's only interaction is via gravity, making it most unusual.
Please pick one or the other. Complain that it hasn't been observed, or that it can only interact through gravity. You can't complain both that it hasn't been observed and that it only interacts through gravity as the latter implies the former, unless you allow the observation of it through its gravitational effects, in which case it has been observed.

And so are theories. Does redshift always equate to distance? Let's just be honest for once. You don't really know. But you are acting like you do and your whole cosmological model depends on the relationship being absolute. Because if it's not ... :)
Certainly does not. Fingers of God effect and the Kaiser effect. But you probably shouldn't think about those too hard given they result from the movement of galaxies in clusters, which provided the first evidence for dark matter.. ;)

And calculations published in peer reviewed journals and books by renowned scientists (some of which I linked above) conclude that such known properties could indeed explain the CMB spectrum.

You probably mean Narlikar et al - astro-ph/0211036? It's pre-WMAP year one for one thing, It obviously needs to be redone with WMAP data (year three ideally). This they do in arxiv:0801.2965v1 and end up with a worse fit than they did before, and then go on to exclude high-l points on the basis that WMAP 1 and 3 disagree - when in fact this is to be expected as the analysis was improved for WMAP 3 (so it supercedes the earlier data). As a result, this exclusion of data is invalid. So the QSSC pretty clearly doesn't fit the data, especially compared to the standard cosmological model. And add in high-l CMB experiments like Boomerang and the best fit from that paper looks like it's blown out of the water (I've overplotted the two).

In the concluding remarks to the '02 paper -
In the big bang cosmology, the inferences are related to the postulated initial conditions prevailing well beyond the range of direct observations (at redshifts >≈ 1000). In the QSSC the attempt is to relate patchiness of structure, (at redshifts ≈ 5) which may be observable one day, to the patchiness of MBR. These latter studies admittedly do not give predictions as sharp as those given by the former, but they may perhaps claim to be less speculative.
The predictiveness is also a very key point. If a theory is too unpredictive, in that it can essentially fit any data, it becomes useless. If it fits too wide a range (but not any data) as the QSSC might, it becomes very weak and is as a result disfavoured over more predictive theories like the standard cosmology.
 
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You asked for a mainstream source that motioned double layers and Birkeland currents in relation to stellar phenomena which I easily provided. If you want papers by authors “that supported mainstream claims about quasars, dark matter and dark energy, magnetic reconnection, tangled magnetic fields, frozen-in magnetic fields, jets, solar flares, CMES, coronal temperatures, or comet behavior” I’m sure they are also available from this mainstream source.

I think any honest reading of what I originally posted would see I was challenging you to provide a mainstream source that supports the mainstream gnome explanations of phenomena and specifically dismisses the double layer, z-pinch and Birkeland current explanations for those same phenomena. I don't know of any. But you say you're sure they exist. So why don't you provide some ... something other than that wikipedia article. Make it from a scientific journal. Can you do it or not? :)

Originally Posted by BeAChooser
Your challenge is to provide a peer reviewed source that does support mainstream claims and also discounts double layers, Birkeland currents and z-pinches rather than just ignoring those phenomena. Can you do it or not?

Once again your response is to challenge me to disprove my point that double layers and Birkeland currents are mentioned and not discounted or ignored.

And around and around we go. Obviously you can't prove that the mainstream supporting community has considered the double layer, z-pinch and Birkeland current explanations.

That magnetic reconnection can involve both these aspects, a double layer as a sepratrix and a Birkeland current as a field aligned current sheet

Please provide one mainstream-supporting, peer-reviewed journal article that says magnetic reconnection is the double layer phenomena. Please provide one mainstream-supporting, peer-reviewed journal article that says current sheets and magnetic ropes are Birkeland currents. Can you do it or not? I'm betting no.

The fact that these articles presenting non-mainstream theories are readily available from a mainstream source shows that they were not and are not ignored by the mainstream.

Is there one mainstream article directly challenging what they say ... i.e., referencing them and identifying why they are wrong? Because if there isn't, and I don't think you can find one, then yes indeed, the mainstream has ignored those article and theories.

Originally Posted by BeAChooser
Link us a mainstream article promoting reconnection that mentions Birkeland currents or what Alfven said about them.

I already did that, this paper mentions both double layers and Birkeland (or field aligned) currents and based on your own assertions “…was treating magnetic reconnection as if it were proven physics..”

http://adsabs.harvard.edu/cgi-bin/np...pJS...90..837H

You are being dishonest. First of all, as I pointed out to you previously, that source does NOT say magnetic reconnection is the same thing as a double layer. Quite the opposite ... it treats them as two separate and distinct phenomena. Second, it did not disprove the double layer explanation. In fact, it concluded that BOTH double layers and reconnection could produce the observed energy levels. But one explanation was a gnome and the other was not. Even 2 decades after these authors published their article that is written as if magnetic reconnection was a proven fact, physicists were STILL trying to demonstrate the kind of magnetic reconnection theorized by astrophysicists. So my challenge to you is still outstanding.

Originally Posted by BeAChooser
This is an article written in 1993 which notes double layers might be responsible for the emissions from pulsars. It was obviously ignored by the rest of mainstream physics community. Also, note that the source spends a lot of time on the bogus gnome of magnetic reconnection and assumes we know what neutron stars are (we don't really). It's hard to not laugh at a source that back in 1993 was treating magnetic reconnection as if it were proven physics when in 2007 they still haven't proven it or tend to describe phenomena that sound like exploding double layers in their "proofs".

Again it is not the mainstream ignoring those articles it is you ignoring the fact that those articles are available from a mainstream source.

You are either being obtuse or dishonest. As I've noted before, science doesn't work when scientists publish papers and then all those scientists that disagree with that work ignore the published papers in their own work and articles. It works when the scientists who disagree publish papers of their own mentioning the other work and either disputing or confirming that work. And because the mainstream community has chosen this dishonest TACTIC in defending it's gnomes, a whole section of the scientific community has decided to give up on holding a conversation with the mainstream community and split off.

You obviously are confused; as Ziggurat has explained the current will not just stop and will be driven by the magnetic fields until their energy is dissipated.

And how long does that take? ;) Remember ... the mainstream theorists claim that the magnetic fields in space are frozen-in to the plasmas for quite a long time. Have they ever been able to reproduce that in the lab? :)

Pseudoscience? That is what you are presenting

Really? I was directly quoting a Nobel prize winner in plasma physics and the creator of MHD theory, as well as the concept of frozen-in magnetic fields. Too bad that mainstream astrophysicists dishonestly tell the public that Alfven invented the concept of frozen-in fields they are using in their explanations but fail to tell the public that he later repudiated the theory's use in most astronomical situations and in fact said it would seriously mislead astrophysicists if they used it.

You are wrong magnetic reconnection and the release of the energy results from conditions that specifically do not result in frozen magnetic fields.

Here IS what some mainstream sources say on this subject:

http://www.glue.umd.edu/~drake/ "The topological change in the magnetic field required to form the x-line requires a breakdown in the ideal "frozen-in" flux condition, which occurs at small scales. As a result, magnetic reconnection occurs in narrow boundary layers."

http://www.ingentaconnect.com/content/klu/astr/2004/00000289/F0020003/05256925 "Magnetic reconnection, or the ability of the magnetic field lines that are frozen in plasma to change their topology, is a fundamental problem of magnetohydrodynamics (MHD).

http://www.cosis.net/abstracts/EGU05/04325/EGU05-J-04325.pdf "In the two-fluid system, magnetic reconnection occurs spontaneously because the ‘frozen-in’ condition can be broken by the electron inertial effects."

http://sci.esa.int/science-e/www/object/index.cfm?fobjectid=41553 "Magnetic reconnection is a favored mechanism for understanding charged-particle acceleration phenomena in space and laboratory plasmas. A change in magnetic field line topology is envisioned in magnetic reconnection to release the stored magnetic field energy. In order for this to take place, some form of dissipation to break the frozen-in condition is required."

Even your own source (http://farside.ph.utexas.edu/teaching/plasma/lectures/node74.html ) links magnetic reconnection to "frozen-in" magnetic fields. Without the notion of frozen-in magnetic fields there is no magnetic reconnection.

Clearly, you were trying to mislead our readers again.

The belief that they are trying to distinguish magnetic reconnection from typical discharge behaviors of current carrying plasma is a straw man based on your own futile desires to fundamentally separate electrical aspects from magnetic aspects.

The problem with your theory is that none of the mainstream supporting articles claim they are one and the same. For example, the article I provided early that you dishonestly cited back to me in your post clearly does distinguish magnetic reconnection from typical discharge behaviors. You are lying. Is that what it comes down to ... your side has to lie to support your gnomes?

Quote:
"The Sweet-Parker reconnection ansatz is undoubtedly correct. ... snip ... One, admittedly rather controversial, resolution of this problem was suggested by Petschek."

Here we have the difference between science and your pseudoscience.

Now you are trying to claim that Sweet Parker and Petcheck explain reconnection in solar phenomena? Did you miss the part in your source (http://farside.ph.utexas.edu/teaching/plasma/lectures/node77.html ) where it states "The problem is that Sweet-Parker reconnection takes place far too slowly to account for many reconnection processes which are thought to take place in the solar system"? Did you miss the part where it states "Clearly, we can only hope to account for solar flares using a reconnection mechanism which operates far faster than the Sweet-Parker mechanism." Did you miss the part where it states "It must be pointed out that the Petschek model is very controversial. Many physicists think that it is completely wrong, and that the maximum rate of magnetic reconnection allowed by MHD is that predicted by the Sweet-Parker model. In particular, Biskamp wrote an influential and widely quoted paper reporting the results of a numerical experiment which appeared to disprove the Petschek model."

A “re-labeling” is a “redefinition” of the terms used to refer to the aspects being identified.

Guess that depends on the definition of "is". :)
 
http://www.mi.infm.it/manini/dida/BlackBody.notes.html
The model currently proposed by Gold, Bondi, Hoyle, Narlikar, Burbidge and others is not a "steady-state" model in the sense you want to imply. It's a continuous creation model (quasi-steady state) based on a different solution to the equation of general relativity ... one that didn't ASSUME the mass of the universe is a constant. Why did we have to assume that? It allows for the creation of matter even now under certain circumstances (which follow from the solution equations). Think of it as an ongoing string of mini-bangs without all the problems of the Big Bang model ... i.e., the need for inflation, dark matter, dark energy, black holes, etc. :D

By the way... you do realise the QSSC posits a non-zero value of Lambda?

Sounds kinda gnomish.
 
And how long does that take? ;)

That depends upon the resistance of the current-carrying medium in question. If that resistance is low (which it will be for any very large conductor), then it can take quite some time indeed. If you want a more specific answer, then you need to provide a more specific scenario. But then, I know how allergic you are to doing actual calculations.

Remember ... the mainstream theorists claim that the magnetic fields in space are frozen-in to the plasmas for quite a long time. Have they ever been able to reproduce that in the lab? :)

Well, yes. Although it's frequently called inductive heating. And it works on exactly the same principles. The time scales in a lab will be orders of magnitude shorter, because the conducting plasmas are orders of magnitude smaller (and the resistance decreases with larger sizes), but the electrodynamics is all the same, and quite well understood. And it's not even unique to plasmas, it holds true for any conductor.
 
Also, it's not only ironic but pretty funny that you selected this paper to try and make such a point, because guess what the author provides? A model possibly explaining Holmes's outburst, which could apply to other short-period comets as well.

Guess what? I knew this since it was I who originally cited the source specifically noting the model. Of course, I emphasized the fact that it is a "novel" mechanism they propose and one that can't be easily tested since it depends on what's inside the comet and as yet we have no means to look inside comets. Heck, you folks can't even tell us how the heat from the sun manages to vaporize the materials deep in the comet when the materials of comets are highly efficient insulators. :)

proclaiming that mainstream astronomers "are shrugging and saying we 'may never know the cause'".

Guess what? Some of them are saying that. That was a direct quote of an astronomer.

Originally Posted by BeAChooser
They did watch Schumacher Levy break up and saw no evidence of water.

Shoemaker-Levy 9. And, I don't think that's accurate (see here).

From your source: "No OH emission was detected".

The incorrect assumption being made here is by the EU proponents, who assert the solar wind carries a net positive charge.

That's false. EU theorists say the solar wind is quasi-neutral. You don't disagree with that, do you? And that means there are positive ions in that wind.

That's the basis for their attempt to explain the presence of hydroxyl in cometary observations, further claiming that they result from positively charged hydrogen in the solar wind somehow coupling with negatively charged oxygen from comet nuclei.

Not "somehow coupling" ... by engaging in charge exchange ... same phenomena that mainstream theorists now say produces the x-rays that have been observed.

But the solar wind is demonstrably electrically neutral

No, the solar wind is quasi-neutral ... meaning it can carry current. And in fact NASA recently announced that huge currents are flowing from the sun to the earth via the solar wind.

Multiple, independent observations confirm that comets are the source of the hydrogen that's seen rather than what EU-ers claim.

http://adsabs.harvard.edu/full/1978ApJ...225.1083O "An Analysis of the coma of Comet Bennett 1970 II ... snip ... We conclude that the brightness profiles of H20+ and OH in comet Bennett 1970 II which are presently available are inconsistent with production of OH primarily by photodissociation of H2O molecules sublimating from the nucleus."

The comet you describe in this part of the exchange is Tempel 1. Ample quantities of water exist in Tempel 1 to account for the observed OH.

How did the water get out of the comet? The observations say that the amount of ice on the surface was far to little to account for the observed quantity of OH, H, etc. The mainstream states that the surface materials of the comet are highly efficient insulation preventing heat from reaching deeper layers. So by what mechanism did the heat of the sun get into the comet to account for the observed OH?

I think you (like McCanney) mistakenly assume that the volume of water ice observed by the SWIFT team would have to be confined to the ejecta released from impact.

But there was no increase in jets observed from the comet after the impact in the timeframe in which the 250,000 ton quantity was estimated to have been released. And, furthermore, how did the heat of the sun get into the comet to sublimate more water if the material of the comet is like talcum powder and very insulative. We keep coming back to that problem. I think the fact that their calculated water quantity is larger than the estimated crater size is not a issue you can just dismiss with hand waving.
 

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