Death Penalty: Pt XXIV

A few years ago, there was a case that really made me rethink my opposition to the death penalty.

The man had a long history of torturous crimes against children. When he killed a little girl he had been raping and torturing, eventually killing her by burying her alive. He proceeded to emotionally torture the child's family with letters and messages where he described the girls pain and fear, what he did to her when she was crying for her parents.

He was caught and confessed. No remorse. He looked forward to doing it again. He was sentenced to death. During his execution, he spent a few minutes suffering when the fluid administered malfunctioned, a few moments where he looked uncomfortable, then he died.

There was instant outrage from death penalty opponents.

I realized that I didn't have a problem with it, and felt satisfaction that he wouldn't be killing and torturing little girls any more.


Does that make me vindictive, vengeful, blood-thirsty? It doesn't feel like a black or white opinion. I am not a proponent of the death penalty, nor am I against. It seems I evaluate each case, case by case.
 
Vixen said:
That's why it was technically 'corrupt'. It was an empty promise, made purely to get a vote.

It is what we have come to expect.
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In my understanding of the English language, the words "bribe" and "corruption" mean that money has changed hands, or at the very least some other compensation that can be assigned a monetary value was given.

A broken election promise does not fulfill that condition.

ETA: handing out free beer to the voters before the election would be bribing them.
 
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ddt said:
In my understanding of the English language, the words "bribe" and "corruption" mean that money has changed hands, or at the very least some other compensation that can be assigned a monetary value was given.

A broken election promise does not fulfill that condition.

ETA: handing out free beer to the voters before the election would be bribing them.
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Say you were an auditor. A client offering a gift, inducement or a benefit in the future is just as much in the process of [potentially] bribing you as the one plonking an expensive case of wine on your desk today as a 'goodwill gesture'.
 
Vixen said:
Say you were an auditor. A client offering a gift, inducement or a benefit in the future is just as much in the process of [potentially] bribing you as the one plonking an expensive case of wine on your desk today as a 'goodwill gesture'.
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As usual you would find it much easier to simply admit your error.
 
Vixen said:
It is, technically, as it was a bribe to make people vote for them.
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Technically it wasn't corruption - it was a broken campaign promise.

Actually, unless you use a very eccentric choice of language - it isn't anything like corruption.


Even if it were corruption, it's a bit of a stretch to extrapolate from student politics (renowned for being iffy) to all politicians.
 
I don't see any of the problems with the death penalty as being particularly unique to just that form of punishment. The death penalty is simply the most severe. Any of the problems around capital punishment, say improper representation, biased juries, systemic racism, etc exist within the entire criminal justice system.

Sure, death can't be undone. But neither can imprisoning someone for long periods of time. No amount of "I'm sorry" and money can undue 20 years in prison.

Maybe I don't trust the system to fairly administer capital punishment, but I am no more wary of this extreme punishment than I am for the mundane. The system makes errors, small and large. Society should demand more from the system, but likely won't because they assume those accused deserve what they get.

Deterrence isn't the only reason we send people to prison. Retribution is valuable for society. It causes the public tremendous damage to see ill-doers go unpunished. It undermines a sense of law, order, and general morality. This is not to excuse deliberate cruelty, but punishment for the sake of punishment is valuable for society.
 
I'm pretty much of the opinion that it is better for a hundred (or whatever) guilty men to go free, than one innocent man be punished/executed..

However, if I feel me or mine are in imminent, deadly danger, I would have no problem executing someone..
 
Darat said:
As usual you would find it much easier to simply admit your error.
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If you consider phony election promises are OK, then you have become normalised to unethical behaviour.

Anyway, I made a quip about there being no politicians left should TragicMonkey's suggestion corrupt politicians should get the death penalty were implemented.

Sheee-eeesh. It was a quip, peeps.

You don't need to give me examples of politicians that aren't corrupt (although that is probably quicker to do than list the corrupt ones:/).
 
jimbob said:
Technically it wasn't corruption - it was a broken campaign promise.

Actually, unless you use a very eccentric choice of language - it isn't anything like corruption.


Even if it were corruption, it's a bit of a stretch to extrapolate from student politics (renowned for being iffy) to all politicians.
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Misrepresentation and 'gain by deception' are corrupt in my books.
 
Vixen said:
If you consider phony election promises are OK, then you have become normalised to unethical behaviour.

Anyway, I made a quip about there being no politicians left should TragicMonkey's suggestion corrupt politicians should get the death penalty were implemented.

Sheee-eeesh. It was a quip, peeps.

You don't need to give me examples of politicians that aren't corrupt (although that is probably quicker to do than list the corrupt ones:/).
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Just saying you mispoke would have been much easier.
 
SuburbanTurkey said:
I don't see any of the problems with the death penalty as being particularly unique to just that form of punishment. The death penalty is simply the most severe. Any of the problems around capital punishment, say improper representation, biased juries, systemic racism, etc exist within the entire criminal justice system.

Sure, death can't be undone. But neither can imprisoning someone for long periods of time. No amount of "I'm sorry" and money can undue 20 years in prison.

Maybe I don't trust the system to fairly administer capital punishment, but I am no more wary of this extreme punishment than I am for the mundane. The system makes errors, small and large. Society should demand more from the system, but likely won't because they assume those accused deserve what they get.

Deterrence isn't the only reason we send people to prison. Retribution is valuable for society. It causes the public tremendous damage to see ill-doers go unpunished. It undermines a sense of law, order, and general morality. This is not to excuse deliberate cruelty, but punishment for the sake of punishment is valuable for society.
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There are few innocents executed in USA, but hundreds of lifers that are or were innocent.
Capital punishment attracts the activists, Damien Echols being a classic case.
In New Zealand I think the availability of capital punishment would serve to hasten the release of, for example, Mark Lundy. People would take far more interest in the lies the police and scientists are comfortable to foist in pursuit of finality and a paycheck.
He was convicted on the bogus evidence of a corrupt Texan called Rodney Miller, who famously said we all know what would have happened to him in Texas. We know what he was saying alright.
 
Vixen said:
Sorry? I haven't mispoken.

Or are you one of these people who thinks BoJo's Van claiming £350K per week could be saved to go into the NHS instead, if we all vote Brexit?

Perhaps you should admit to misspeaking.
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Are those goalposts just on wheels or are they motorised as well ?

Lest anyone forgets, this is an example of what you say is corruption:

Vixen said:
Name me one. As an example, in my student days, the way to win an NUS election, was to promise to bring down the price of beer at the student union bar.

It never happened.
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Indeed you claim it was a bribe.

As usual, you are wrong but refuse to admit it. :nope:
 
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