Dean's comments on pickups, confederate flag, spark controversy

[Tmy]

Howard Dean:

-Born in New York City
-Raised in East Hampton, New York
-Governor of the softest, left-most state in the continental US

... tells the Dixie men he wants to represent them.


Reminds me of when Rick Rubin, a quintessential Long Island Jew, told the Black Crowes to call themselves the "Kob Kounty Krows". (K.K.K. in the spirit of Southern Rock..)

The Robinson brothers were not amused.

I think Deans original speech contained the term "drunken nascar loving hillbilles," then he toned it down a bit.

 

[gnome]

the urban side, have-nots & have-it-alls who think society -- not the individual -- is the problem for an individual's ills, and who think the future lies in UN/One-World.

I have a problem with this characterization. If one can forgive an argument from personal incredulity... I have never heard anyone argue that it's all society and not the individual. The argument that I like to make is that both society and individual choices contributes to one's position in life. It is clear that one needs to take responsibility for their own life and choices--but it is equally clear that the condition of society affects the individual's circumstances. It can hardly be called an abdication of personal responsibility to spend some effort looking for solutions that improve the individual through improving the society--i.e., better economy, better availability of education, and so forth.

There's room for efforts in both directions, don't imply that we must choose only one.

 

[hammegk]

I have a problem with this characterization.

Of course you do. What else can a moral relativist think/say/do if everything is just different shades of grey?

So what? Quite a few folks disagree with you, and if you hadn't noticed the disagreements are getting more & more pointed.

There's room for efforts in both directions, don't imply that we must choose only one.

Spend all the time & money you wish "fixing" the problems; just keep your nose out of my affairs, and my pocketbook.

Before you worry overmuch about inequalities in the US based on race/ creed/ gender/ sexual orientation/ blahblahblah perhaps you need to assist Africa, or at least pick some people who are truly in dire straits.


Just my 3cts; do with it what you will.

 

[tedly]

Malachi151 said:
I myself am sick of the South and its stupid redneck ways, but the fact is, it's much more complex than Northerners think.

and Gnome said:
To propose another way of looking at it:

There are a bunch of pickup-driving, confederate-flag-sticker Americans who could be sold on better schools and insurance reform. Could it be a positive thing--that Dean is avoiding an all-too-common assumption that everyone that has the confederate logo on their pickup truck should be dismissed as racist?



Every complex situation has a simple solution that is stupid and wrong. (end gross simplification mode- or not)

Dean may be attempting to form alliances with people on the grounds that he can support - across the divide of things he can't. From up here American politics are often an impenetrable fog, so I really don't know. But I do assume it would be a mistake to write off the possibility of finding common ground with anybody because they carry a symbol that is nearly ubiquitous in their community. Exactly what does it say about me that I have a Nike swooshtika on my T-shirt?

In our dread Saskatchewan winter a small sparrow, starving, flew across the farmyard and collapsed outside the barn. A cow, unaware dropped a pie on top of it. The sparrow collapsed under this, insult on injury. But, as he prepared to die, he noticed that he was warm. Then he noticed that there were grains of oats in the pie. He began to eat and restored his strength. Saved, he drew himself together and began to sing.
The cat, noticing this bizarre cow-pie sorted through it, found the sparrow and killed and ate it.
Three morals. Not everyone who sh*ts on you is your enemy. Not everyone who gets you out of ◊◊◊◊ is your friend. And if you're warm, well fed and happy, keep your mouth shut.

 

[gnome]

Of course you do. What else can a moral relativist think/say/do if everything is just different shades of grey?

This comes across almost as a non-sequitur, but I imagine it might make more sense if you clarified it...

You're saying that if everything is just different shades of gray, then a moral relativist's arguments are limited? I really don't see what you're getting at.

So what? Quite a few folks disagree with you, and if you hadn't noticed the disagreements are getting more & more pointed.

And therefore...?

Spend all the time & money you wish "fixing" the problems; just keep your nose out of my affairs, and my pocketbook.

And considering the implications of society affects your pocketbook how?

Is it possible to say "Yes, societal influences affect an individual's opportunities, but it's a problem we have to live with because it's wrong to take other people's money to fix it without unanimous consent?"

Or is the mere intellectual exercise of considering societal influences, an infringement on your property somehow?

Before you worry overmuch about inequalities in the US based on race/ creed/ gender/ sexual orientation/ blahblahblah perhaps you need to assist Africa, or at least pick some people who are truly in dire straits.

Again this singular approach, does one exclude the other?

 

[shecky]

There are a bunch of pickup-driving, confederate-flag-sticker Americans who could be sold on better schools and insurance reform.

The pickup-driving, confederate-flag-sticker Americans could easily be sold on better schools and insurance reform, even more. And they soemtimes are. But I suspect they'd rather the pork be brought home from the likes of homegrown good ole boys like Trent Lott, than snooty northerners like Dean.