Dean Meltdown

[SRW]

I'm just expecting Dean to be Gored. Even if he's not acting like a hothead, the press will gladly fit the facts to the image. It makes "good" news that way.

I didn't see the speech on TV, I might be more forgiving of his representation in the press were that the case.

I tuned into the comments made by the round table at MSnbc, CNN and FOX, but missed the speech its self. What astounded me what that everyone, democrat, republican and independent were dumbfounded by the speech. Even the people who I would have expected to support Dean were shocked. This was not a media skewering it was all Dean.

I saw a replay of it latter that night and my first though was, John Stuart is going to have a field day Tuesday night.

What do you want? Him to call the media and let them know he is going to act like an ass so please turn off the cameras.

 

[Cain]

I just want to say that I'm not saying that this particular picture misrepresents anything. I just object generally to the idea that snapshots of anyone can be used to demonstrate any sort of point.

Even when they are representative, it's impossible to tell unless you have the accompanying video.

Well, it goes both ways. Some photographs, though they only capture a brief moment of time, probe us to look deeper into an event or a person's character. Other times they can be completely manipulative.

I looked over a few articles and the papers described Dean as "exuberant". I had to flip through a number of pictures to find this one:

http://us.news1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/rids/20040120/i/r796755561.jpg

In all the others he was smiling or rolling up his sleeves or pumping a fist at the end of his rolled up sleeve while wearing a smile.

 

[specious_reasons]

What do you want? Him to call the media and let them know he is going to act like an ass so please turn off the cameras.

I'd like better news. Even NPR, which I donate to, covers this election like it's a horse race, and issues are less important than personality.

I'm perfectly fine with Dean acting like ass and getting called for it. I'm just suspicious of the news coverage, and that single picture

I like your Daily Show comment.... I think tonight would be a good night to remember to watch the show...

 

[SRW]

I'd like better news. Even NPR, which I donate to, covers this election like it's a horse race, and issues are less important than personality.

I'm perfectly fine with Dean acting like ass and getting called for it. I'm just suspicious of the news coverage, and that single picture

I like your Daily Show comment.... I think tonight would be a good night to remember to watch the show...

The Daily show should be great, with both the Dean speech and the State of the Union tonight.

Unfortunately, I get the impression that "better news" gets less viewers than personal actions.

Actually that picture would not be a big deal if it were not for the video that it came from.

 

[Suddenly]

I don't think any picture is going to do Dean .001% of the harm that the audio will do.

I just heard it for the first time, and in my learned and humble opinion he sounds like a complete idiot.

You can do a lot of things and still end up in the White House, Clinton is pretty good proof of that. However...

One thing you cannot do is sound like, and I am going to use a very technical term here, a dork.

Dean sounds like a dork, like he is trying to be inspiring and can't pull it off. Not good. May be the only cardinal sin left in politics, do not let yourself look unpresidential. This is like Dukakis on that tank, only 10 times worse...

I'd say he's dead now. The body hasn't stopped moving, but this speech is chilling to anyone not solidly in Dean's corner, and there are enough of them out there that it is going to hurt. It is going to become clear that this audio snippet is going to be the 2004 Republican Theme Song if Dean is nominated, and I still harbor some faith that the Democratic party is not that stupid.

The thing that sticks in my (admittedly warped) mind after hearing the audio...

North Dakota?

 

[Snide]

You've obviously fallen for the conservative media's propaganda about that event. I'm guessing you saw soundbites on Faux News and drew your conclusions directly from Hannity.

Not a bad guess, even if not entirely how he got his "news."

It was really just bad judgment from one guy who was speaking from the heart, without thinking about the repercussions.

Oh the irony... Republicans using the event to criticize the partisanship of it.

That media is sooooo liberal!!

 

[VicDaring]

I might be the only person in the country to say this, but my take is, "Go Howard!"

After the event, talking to AP, he said you've got to have a little fun with this process.

The crowd enjoyed it, Dean enjoyed, Harkin seemed to enjoy it, I really don't see the harm.

If Dean keeps his lead in NH, then does okay in NC, NM, etc., this will be yesterday's news pretty quickly.

PS: Of course, my phone rang last night while Dean was on stage and a friend asked, "What's the deal with your boy Dean? What is he, a pro wrestler?"

Edited to change Minnesota to New Mexico.

 

[Regnad Kcin]

It was really just bad judgment from one guy who was speaking from the heart, without thinking about the repercussions.

That'd be, and is, my default position on the matter. Sad that we've most of us become so cynical that we can not allow a person their humanity. Especially in a campaign that early on had the appearance of safe-playing.

BBC World News (starting at 5am GMT) led with the Dean sound bite, which is where I first heard it. (I've yet to see the film.) It struck me, too, as over the top. But it's one component of the person, to be weighed along with the others.

So, will it be a bump on the road? Will it be a hand his opponents overplay? Will it be some other hackneyed cliche?

To be, as they say, continued...

 

[corplinx]

Everyone is just trying to lump on Dean because he is such a "straight talker". You people can't handle someone who speaks the plain truth like Dean.

 

[hgc]

Everyone is just trying to lump on Dean because he is such a "straight talker". You people can't handle someone who speaks the plain truth like Dean.

I, for one, am a Democrat trying to pick a candidate, and I haven't heard anything from Dean that's more straight-talkin' than anyone else.

This has been discussed in these parts before, and I'll say it again. Image matters. And rightfully so. Not only for electability, but also for presidentiality. If I'm going to vote for a candidate based on his policies, then I want him to have all the rest it takes to be successful at implementing it, including the right personality to command the nation's attention. I also want a Democrat that can get enough people on his side so that Bush will be beaten. Dean just ain't that guy. He's frankly too weird, and last night was a good illustration of that.

I'm just glad it happened now, instead of later in the year, when he might have been closer to the nomination.

By the way, let's not lose sight of the fact that the Iowa caucus goers apparently made that decision before Dean's freak-out last night.

 

[subgenius]

Everyone is just trying to lump on Dean because he is such a "straight talker". You people can't handle someone who speaks the plain truth like Dean.

As hgc so succinctly points out no one is dumping on him for his talk. And frankly no one (not me anyway) is dumping on him at all. The issue is whether the little performance has affected his chances.
Speaking the plain truth, I don't see anyone here having a problem with.
A tirade, a tantrum, people are rightfully concerned about.
Even if one has no problem with it, there is still the realistic concern about electability.
Your analysis, with all due respect, is an over-simplification, and a general unfounded accusation on everyone here. "You people"?

 

[Hexxenhammer]

The thing that sticks in my (admittedly warped) mind after hearing the audio...

North Dakota?

Come on! Their caucus is February 3rd! It's timely!

 

[rikzilla]

I, for one, am a Democrat trying to pick a candidate,

I feel your pain.

I also want a Democrat that can get enough people on his side so that Bush will be beaten.

Sorry, that Democrat won't be running. She's hunkering down till '08. She's written off the Democratic party already. She's gonna let it twist in the wind.

Dean just ain't that guy. He's frankly too weird, and last night was a good illustration of that.

The way he gleefully pointed to dead american troops to bolster his campaign was even more repugnant. The other Dems may feel that way too, but at least they have the sense to keep their mouths shut.

Dean is too much of an a-hole to be electable. I too hope the Dems have seen that and will put someone less extreme forward for the nomination. I don't think ANY of the current batch of Dems can unseat Bush, but who knows, Bush might step on his own crank sometime before Nov? I doubt it, but it's literally the Dems only real chance.

-z

 

[Troll]

Those pick were chosen on purpose. Im suprised they didnt draw in little hitler mustaches while they were at it.

If Dean was a republican we'd be hearing about how the "liberal media" is being unfair to him.

dude, if Dean was a republucan he'd have already had the Hitler moustache drawn on him in those pics.

 

[VicDaring]

By the way, let's not lose sight of the fact that the Iowa caucus goers apparently made that decision before Dean's freak-out last night.

Methinks Iowa caucus goers made their decision based on Dean talkin' down their event four years ago.

Hey, that's their right. It's their thing and they want to protect it. I just wouldn't read too much into it.

 

[hgc]

I feel your pain.

Sorry, that Democrat won't be running. She's hunkering down till '08. She's written off the Democratic party already. She's gonna let it twist in the wind.

The way he gleefully pointed to dead american troops to bolster his campaign was even more repugnant. The other Dems may feel that way too, but at least they have the sense to keep their mouths shut.

Dean is too much of an a-hole to be electable. I too hope the Dems have seen that and will put someone less extreme forward for the nomination. I don't think ANY of the current batch of Dems can unseat Bush, but who knows, Bush might step on his own crank sometime before Nov? I doubt it, but it's literally the Dems only real chance.

-z

I do think there are Dem candidates that can beat Bush in this race. Edwards, Kerry or Clark are each electable against W. Remeber Bush got fewer votes than Gore last time. Imagine what a Dem with a personality can do (um, that hurts Kerry's chances just a bit). I get the sense that Bush is not so trusted by Joe Sixpack and Ellen Eldercare as he has been.

 

[Clancie]

Posted by Tmy

I think its unfair how the media targets Dean

Did you see the study released the other day? There's recently been about twice as much media coverage critical of Dean compared with the other candidates.

Although I personally agree with most of Dean's positions, I wanted him to lose in Iowa since I believe he is totally unelectable (not enough experience and too liberal for this still-quite-conservative country).

Nevertheless, I've been pretty disgusted by the tv pieces about him the past week--lots of negative editorializing every day, but apparently on television they don't have to label it as such.

 

[rikzilla]

I do think there are Dem candidates that can beat Bush in this race. Edwards, Kerry or Clark are each electable against W. Remeber Bush got fewer votes than Gore last time. Imagine what a Dem with a personality can do (um, that hurts Kerry's chances just a bit). I get the sense that Bush is not so trusted by Joe Sixpack and Ellen Eldercare as he has been.

But there's one great difference; Bush v Gore was pre-9/11. Here's the post-9/11 reality:

Bush Approval Rating Highest Run in History

Of course the events of Sept. 11 continue to reverberate in the political sphere as well. George W. Bush's job approval rating soared after the attacks to the highest ever recorded in opinion polls, peaking at 92 percent Oct. 9. Fueled by approval of his response to terrorism, it has stayed remarkably high — 71 percent in this poll. (That is, for comparison, 14 points higher than Ronald Reagan's career average.)

Indeed Bush's approval ratings in 16 ABCNEWS and ABCNEWS/Washington Post polls the last year have averaged 81 percent—the longest, highest run in presidential approval since modern polling began in the late 1930s. (He gets 74 percent approval specifically on handling the war on terrorism — its lowest since the campaign began, given some of the concerns cited above, but still very broad.)

One result shows how much Bush's popularity rests on the campaign against terrorism: Among the 70 percent who think the war is going very or fairly well, 82 percent approve of his overall performance in office. Among those who think the war is not going well, Bush's approval drops to 44 percent.

Like I said before, Bush needs to make a very big mistake between now and November for the Dems to have a real shot. If Bush was really beatable, do you think Hillary would sit back and let herself get 4 years older? The Dem candidates now are cannon fodder. A forlorn hope going into the breach without a prayer.

-z

 

[Supercharts]

The pic reminds me of Joe McCarthy. Maybe a little bit of Huey Long...

 

[hgc]

But there's one great difference; Bush v Gore was pre-9/11. Here's the post-9/11 reality:


Like I said before, Bush needs to make a very big mistake between now and November for the Dems to have a real shot. If Bush was really beatable, do you think Hillary would sit back and let herself get 4 years older? The Dem candidates now are cannon fodder. A forlorn hope going into the breach without a prayer.

-z

Ah, the popularity polls. On balance, a recent poll asking voters their preference between Bush and Dem-to-be-named ran about even.

I would think that 9/11 would make Bush's incumbency insurmountable, but it's not necessarily so. The key to skewering Bush on 9/11: the war in Iraq was a distraction from the war on terror, and it makes us less safe. Kerry has been pushing this point, and it could really turn 9/11 against Bush if it takes hold. The fact that Bush's ostensible reasons for the Iraq war have yet to be proven makes that possible.

I'm not sure why Hillary sat it out. If she wants to be president, she should have done it now, and not wimped out for a better opportunity. Perhaps she took her promise to serve out her Senate term seriously. But for her to have the expectation that there wouldn't already be a sitting Dem president in '08 is not being the team player. I also think Hillary has some not-so-great personality quirkiness, a la Dean, but she could still win, and could have beaten Bush this year.