Dealing with family.

[Monstrmac1]

Recently I went on vacation with my family. There's a little girl in the family who was asking about my sugar glider. She called it a flying squirrel. I said no, its a marsupial. She asked why it looked like a squirrel. I then explained that it was an example of convergent evolution, when to unrelated species develop similar traits to adapt to their environment.

Her grandma leaned back and tells her not to listen because, "most of that stuff is just made up".

I am at a loss for words in this situation.

 

[Sledge]

Of course it's made up. It's explanations made up by people who've looked at the available evidence and put forward an explanation that accounts for all the evidence and haven't been rendered invalid by subsequently discovered evidence.

 

[Hecubas]

That's when you throw back something a bit more familiar like "You wouldn't call a bat, a bird, would you?".

 

[caniswalensis]

Yikes! TOUGH SPOT!

That is the point at which I back off. There is no winning in that situation. The grandmother knows in her heart that she is correct, and no amount of discussion will convince her otherwise. Any attempt to do so will just cause useless, vacation ruining strife.

That does not make the grandmother stupid or a bad person.

There is not much you can or should do to help the girl. You are not her parent & do not see her every day. Don't criticize her elders, whom she loves. That will likely only make you the bad guy in her eyes. If you feel the need to say something to her, just encourage her to study the topic and make up her own mind.

I hope this helps, Canis

 

[Marduk]

Wait a few years and then have the conversation again

 

[godless dave]

That does not make the grandmother stupid or a bad person.

I disagree entirely.

 

[caniswalensis]

I disagree entirely.

Well, we are both entitled to our opinions.

I would not go as far as to rule out the possibility that she might be stupid and/or a bad person. I just do not see it as a foregone conclusion. She seemingly cares enough about her grand daughter to speak up and give her the truth as she sees it. I do not think people who believe in creation are bad by that fact.

 

[Quinn]

But I really do not have enough information, do you know the grandmother in question?

If our definition of stupidity includes believing what one "just knows in her heart" rather than what the evidence clearly indicates, then I'd say we do have enough information. Although personally I find it more useful to talk about stupid actions and stupid beliefs, than stupid people (since everyone does stupid things sometimes, and no one does stupid things all the time).

 

[redziller]

It's a toughie - I'm godfather to two nephews though I told my sister I had my fingers crossed during the vows. My brother, respect, did go into the school to complain: "and stop telling him that Jesus is [his son]'s father, I am!"

Freinds too. A christian I hadn't seem for ages surpised me that she had become atheist.... after watching Zeitgeist.

Can only be your call!

 

[caniswalensis]

If our definition of stupidity includes believing what one "just knows in her heart" rather than what the evidence clearly indicates, then I'd say we do have enough information. Although personally I find it more useful to talk about stupid actions and stupid beliefs, than stupid people (since everyone does stupid things sometimes, and no one does stupid things all the time).

Agreed.

but what isf someone is unfamiliar with the evidence? Or worse, they have inocently put hteir trust in someone that is distorting that evidence?

 

[Monstrmac1]

Interesting thoughts.

I will say the grandma (my aunt) is not stupid or bad. But her faith leads her down bad pathways, which is what religion usually does. She and her two daughters are all college graduates, yet all 3 have deeply ingrained religious belief.

I assume the girl, who is around 10 will also be intelligent. The good news is there's a chance that she will follow a different path, especially given how much religion is being forced on her as a child. The funny thing is that she seemed to understand the idea of convergent evolution much more than her elders.

This is why its so important to get religion out of schools.

Here's something much worse. The same girl has suffered from seizures. She's been on medication to control them for years. Recently, the man who is about to become her stepfather decided she should no longer be on the medicine. He said that he prayed and the lord told him she would no longer need them.

I have told my family, if the girl is seriously hurt by a seizure I will physically harm this man.

Also, even though I'm not her parent, I do see her very often, and I've been spending time with her since she was born. I have a 6 year old son and the two of them are best friends, so I have a bigger interest in her life than you may expect.

 

[BStrong]

I disagree entirely.

Reasonable individuals can reasonably disagree.

 

[Dancing David]

Sometimes it is best to just ignore such things and let it go
Regarding the sugar glider, not the seizures, if she has seizures hopefully they will restart the medicine.

 

[AdMan]

Here's something much worse. The same girl has suffered from seizures. She's been on medication to control them for years. Recently, the man who is about to become her stepfather decided she should no longer be on the medicine. He said that he prayed and the lord told him she would no longer need them.

This is one thing that should definitely not be ignored.

 

[Dinwar]

Yikes! TOUGH SPOT!

That is the point at which I back off.

My view is the exact opposite: explain exactly why the grandmother is wrong, showing no mercy. Of course, my family is different than most--people getting into loud arguments and not backing down, even when someone pulls a knife (it's happened), is expected. Particularly from me. So your mileage may vary. But I have a professional obligation to argue against this type of insanity, and at least in my parents' home the books to back it up (I keep a copy of The Origins on my laptop when I visit my in-laws in case of such emergencies).

Here's something much worse. The same girl has suffered from seizures. She's been on medication to control them for years. Recently, the man who is about to become her stepfather decided she should no longer be on the medicine. He said that he prayed and the lord told him she would no longer need them.

This is child abuse, and my compliments for standing against it. I wouldn't physically attack this person, however; there are ample court cases where religion has been ruled against in this type of situation that it would be much better to let the police and courts handle it.

 

[Monstrmac1]

I don't think there are any laws to protect her in this case. Its very possible that she has outgrown these seizures. What makes me sick is the consultant. Praying for guidance is the wrong way to make a medical decision for a little girl. They may have made the same decision after discussing with a doctor, but why take the chance?

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

Kids learn that grandmas are sometimes out of touch. I certainly did.

And learning is an accumulation of experiences, not a single 'Grandma vs Monstrmac1' experience. In addition, you can expect kids, including your own, are going to be influenced by people besides yourself.

So I look at these things with the 5 and 10 year plan in mind. What teaching I do is not going to necessarily have an instantaneous result. I recognize I am instead simply chipping away.


OTOH, if you didn't have a reason to keep the peace with grandma and you were confident in your arguments against evolution deniers, you could also choose to engage grandma, again, however, not with the goal of changing grandma's mind. Rather you might consider the goal of teaching the youngster anything from how to think critically when faced with conflicting information to specific evidence for evolution theory.

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

I....
Here's something much worse. The same girl has suffered from seizures. She's been on medication to control them for years. Recently, the man who is about to become her stepfather decided she should no longer be on the medicine. He said that he prayed and the lord told him she would no longer need them.

I have told my family, if the girl is seriously hurt by a seizure I will physically harm this man.....

What is your cousin's position and what is the law regarding denying medical care to children in your state?

What state or country are you in?

Parents withholding medical treatment from their children; legal exemptions. (you have to click, skip the ad)

 

[Monstrmac1]

single 'Grandma vs Monstrmac1' experience

I'm pretty sure Grandma vs Monstrmac1 is the next SyFy original movie.


I live in Virginia. My cousin's position is in accordance with her fiance's. Meaning that unless there is an immediate obvious threat to the child, the law would have no interest in the case.

Medically, this may be the right choice for the girl. However it wasn't a decision made on medical advice.

Also, I have no interest in changing the minds of the adults in my family, except for maybe my brother, but that's for a different post. I just hate to see kids kept from the glorious truths about the world they inhabit.

 

[GeeMack]

Recently I went on vacation with my family. There's a little girl in the family who was asking about my sugar glider. She called it a flying squirrel. I said no, its a marsupial. She asked why it looked like a squirrel. I then explained that it was an example of convergent evolution, when to unrelated species develop similar traits to adapt to their environment.

Her grandma leaned back and tells her not to listen because, "most of that stuff is just made up".

I am at a loss for words in this situation.

"No, Sally, it isn't made up at all. The science is a little complicated, but it is well understood. Science has come a very long way since your grandmother was in school."