Dead is the End?

[Iacchus]

Hey, isn't that the same thing as saying dead-end?

And so what about death, the "greatest" of unknowns? Don't you people know you're doing it all for nothing, because when you die there's nothing to be realized? Does that make any sense? Seems like a big waste to me.

And how do you know our being here isn't a lot like going to school? You know, to learn our lessons? Or esle why the huge expenditure in our education, when there's no vocation to enter after we graduate? Would you send your kids to school if you knew there were no benefits?

Indeed, death is the greatest illusion of all, if in fact it were merely "physical" ...

And to think, God has one up on all of us!

 

[Q-Source]

Hey, isn't that the same thing as saying dead-end?

No

And so what about death, the "greatest" of unknowns? Don't you people know you're doing it all for nothing, because when you die there's nothing to be realized?

It is your own interpretation. I don't think that I am "doing it all for nothing". The rewards for my actions are here and now, not in dead or in life after death. Those rewards keep me doing things in order to get more satisfaction.

Does that make any sense?

Yes

Seems like a big waste to me.

I can understand why.

And how do you know our being here isn't a lot like going to school? You know, to learn our lessons? Or esle why the huge expenditure in our education, when there's no vocation to enter after we graduate? Would you send your kids to school if you knew there were no benefits?

There are benefits here and now, that's why people who know that death is inevitable still enjoy doing things and enjoy searching for the truth.

 

[sparklecat]

Just for the sake of argument...

What's the point of talking about us being here as a waste, unless you presuppose some sort of ultimate purpose for us? Life may seem a waste to us, but I doubt the universe cares.

 

[El Greco]

Here we go again

 

[UndercoverElephant]

Those rewards keep me doing things in order to get more satisfaction.

More satisfaction?

 

[Paul C. Anagnostopoulos]

Iacchus, why don't you propose the most grand and glorious after-death scenario that you can possibly imagine. Then tell us what the point of it is.

~~ Paul

 

[Q-Source]

More satisfaction?

Yes, more. Is that a bad thing or what?

 

[UndercoverElephant]

Yes, more. Is that a bad thing or what?

It is not a bad thing. But satisfaction is only ever temporary.

 

[Keziah Mason]

I'd like to see some evidence instead of all those "what-if"s and other wishful thinking which completely fails to impress.

 

[Suezoled]

Hey, isn't that the same thing as saying dead-end?

And so what about death, the "greatest" of unknowns? Don't you people know you're doing it all for nothing, because when you die there's nothing to be realized? Does that make any sense? Seems like a big waste to me.
(snipped)

Indeed, death is the greatest illusion of all, if in fact it were merely "physical" ...

And to think, God has one up on all of us!

Iacchus once again is:
1.) assuming this life is a waste
2.) There's better stuff on the other side of the septic tank
3.) is working on faith there's life after death and using it as "fact"
4.) assuming there is a god

Actually, the greatest of unknowns, I think, (and Kitten would agree with me), is how much could we get for selling El Greco into slavery?

 

[Some Friggin Guy]

Re: Re: Dead is the End?

Iacchus once again is:
1.) assuming this life is a waste
2.) There's better stuff on the other side of the septic tank
3.) is working on faith there's life after death and using it as "fact"
4.) assuming there is a god

Actually, the greatest of unknowns, I think, (and Kitten would agree with me), is how much could we get for selling El Greco into slavery?

If I remeber my bible correctly, and adjusting for about 2500 years of inflation (using about a middle of the road age argument, since they didn't really trade slaves in Eden.)


I'd say you could get roughly 1400 oxen, 750 camels or a trio 15 year old virgins.

Now that's just a rough estimate.

 

[Ipecac]

This is the kind of argument believers drag out convinced that it will stop us poor, unthinking non-believers in our tracks. A tear will roll down our face, we'll realize the futility of a life without Jebus and we'll be at church the very next Sunday.

Like all creatures, human beings have a survival instinct. We want to survive and we want to be comfortable doing so. Our work in life is geared towards this end. What other choice do we have, really? Just give up and die? We wouldn't have survived as a species without the drive to survive, whatever our eventual individual end.

 

[Upchurch]

To continue Q's line-by-line answering:

And how do you know our being here isn't a lot like going to school?

I don't. How do you know our being here isn't purely for the entertainment value to space aliens? There are plenty of other hypothetical possibilities we could name that are just as likely.

You know, to learn our lessons?

Maybe, but the lesson goals are not clearly defined if similar learning experiences can lead two people to learning two different things. One person may witness the birth of a child and conclude its a miracle from God, while another person concludes that it is procreation of the species and a common, simple occurance.

(note: "simple" does not mean "easy")

Or esle why the huge expenditure in our education, when there's no vocation to enter after we graduate?

Which is, of course, assuming that our being here is meant to be education and not meant for some other purpose, if any purpose at all.

Would you send your kids to school if you knew there were no benefits?

No, but the situation is not necessarily analogous to our very existance. At least, you have not shown it to be.

Indeed, death is the greatest illusion of all, if in fact it were merely "physical" ...

Another "if". If wishes were horses, beggers would ride.

And to think, God has one up on all of us!

Where'd God come into it?

 

[Upchurch]

Or esle why the huge expenditure in our education, when there's no vocation to enter after we graduate? Would you send your kids to school if you knew there were no benefits?

I've thought a bit more on this question and I realized that I never really answered it.

The reason humanity as a whole endevors to learn new things and to improve ourselves in general is for the benefit of our children. The survival and betterment of our species is any parent's ultimate goal.

There is no necessity in a "vocation" in the "next life" for us to learn in this one.

 

[Nyarlathotep]

Hey, isn't that the same thing as saying dead-end?

Maybe, but if so, so what. If there is no life after death (and I have no reason to suppose that there is) it is a fairly apt analogy.

And so what about death, the "greatest" of unknowns? Don't you people know you're doing it all for nothing, because when you die there's nothing to be realized? Does that make any sense? Seems like a big waste to me.

No it's not a waste. I don't have to believe in a next life in order to try to achieve whatever measure of happiness I can in the here and now. I don't feel that some higher purpose or an afterlife is necessary in order to enjoy my time on this Earth. In fact, I look at it this way: My time on this Earth is the only time that I KNOW that I have, spending any of it pursuing an afterlife that seems unlikely to me to even exist does not contribute to making that limited time better for myself or my children. Therefore it is a waste of a resource (time) that I can never get back.

And how do you know our being here isn't a lot like going to school? You know, to learn our lessons? Or esle why the huge expenditure in our education, when there's no vocation to enter after we graduate? Would you send your kids to school if you knew there were no benefits?

Indeed, death is the greatest illusion of all, if in fact it were merely "physical" ...

And to think, God has one up on all of us!

I don't know that it isn't a lot like school. I don't know that it is like school either. I see no reason to think that it is, though, so I see no reason to treat it as such. You're whole question assumes the existence of a God, and that's a BIG assumption

 

[scribble]

And how do you know our being here isn't a lot like going to school? You know, to learn our lessons? Or esle why the huge expenditure in our education, when there's no vocation to enter after we graduate? Would you send your kids to school if you knew there were no benefits?

Man, if God really wanted me to know the ins and outs of Unix programming: a) He could have found a better way than making me work for these asshats... b) I'm going to be sorely disappointed with the network in Heaven. They should at least be one step ahead of us.

But hey, it's good to know God uses Unix.

 

[jj]

Hey, isn't that the same thing as saying dead-end?


Do you really think your attempts at clever word play are going to convince anyone?


And so what about death, the "greatest" of unknowns?

Proof by assertion. Death is death. You stop. There's nothing more to know. The chemical processes abend and you're gone. No poof, nothing more, you just stop existing.

Don't you people know you're doing it all for nothing, because when you die there's nothing to be realized?

Your claim here is unsupported, and is based on suborned induction, as well as on several fallacies included inyour "because" clause. Please remove the fallacies, use induction properly, and then attempt to discuss this in a rational manner.

Does that make any sense? Seems like a big waste to me.


The big sky-daddy sends honest, ethical, life-conserving souls to aeternal torture because they didn't believe in him/her/it. Seems like a big waste to me.

Aside from pointing out your fallacious reasoning via using it on your own superstitions, you're projecting your own (biased by your superstitious background) values on everyone else.

You don't get to do that unless Ashcroft and Cheyney manage to achieve their Krystalnacht against unbelievers in this country, you know, the one that Fox News has been calling for?


And how do you know our being here isn't a lot like going to school? You know, to learn our lessons?

How do you know it is? Occams razor slices your ideas right out, here, unless you can show affirmative evidence, which you haven't.

Or esle why the huge expenditure in our education,

For our REAL education, so we can live comfortably and constructively during our limited lifetime. Life, after all, is much more valuable to the atheist who does not believe in the myth of life after death, because THIS LIFE IS ALL THERE IS.

when there's no vocation to enter after we graduate?

Illicit reasoning.

Would you send your kids to school if you knew there were no benefits?

Please show some basis for your anthropmorphic assumptions. Until you can, we must needs assume that we're not in "school" during life, we're just a part of nature, and when we're dead, we're dead. Obviously there are benefits IN LIFE for education in ethics, morals, technology, etc. That's all there is, and that's what education is good for, FOR MAKING THIS SHORT LIFE WORTH SOMETHING MORE THAN A HELP TO THE ENTROPY DEATH OF THE UNIVERSE. There is no other meaning. Give it up.

Indeed, death is the greatest illusion of all, if in fact it were merely "physical" ...

Death is purely physical. There is no illusion. When you die, you stop working, and you stop thinking, being concious, etc. Until you can show some hard, testable, verifiable evidence otherwise, that's all anyone at all is bound to reasonably accept.

And to think, God has one up on all of us!

How? She must not exist, she's never done anything that I can verify, test, or falsify.

Do you have anything to say, really, or are you just spouting your personal delusions at us again?

 

[jj]

More satisfaction?

Well, yes. It's available now on LP, CD, and undoubtedly via pirated MP3 as well.

I wonder how many royalties it still pulls in?



Personally Iach* here reminds me more of "19th Nervious Breakdown" than "Satisfaction", though.

 

[jj]

Re: Re: Dead is the End?

Iacchus once again is:
1.) assuming this life is a waste

Tragic, since that's all there is. I hope he doens't succumb to depression!

2.) There's better stuff on the other side of the septic tank

No, no, no! The grass is always greener over the septic tank!

3.) is working on faith there's life after death and using it as "fact"

S/he/it's been circular since day one.

4.) assuming there is a god

You mean "blatantly asserting that as absolute, incontrovertable fact". It goes beyond his/her/its personal assumptions, I think.

Actually, the greatest of unknowns, I think, (and Kitten would agree with me), is how much could we get for selling El Greco into slavery?

Ok, ok, first Geoff got me to bite my tongue, and now you. It's you guys fault it's so sore! It's all your fault!

 

[Iacchus]

It is your own interpretation. I don't think that I am "doing it all for nothing". The rewards for my actions are here and now, not in dead or in life after death. Those rewards keep me doing things in order to get more satisfaction.

There are benefits here and now, that's why people who know that death is inevitable still enjoy doing things and enjoy searching for the truth.

Actually I think most people feel this way, provided they have something useful to do. Which, is kind of why I'm asking it. You know, how can it begin so abruptly and then end so abruptly? It kind of leads you to ask if there weren't something more to it than this? In fact I think a lot of people have considered this at one time or another.