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David Tamihere

Samson

Thanks for the link. A case I was not familiar with at all, yet it follows the same depressing pattern of the Lundy and Watson cases - tunnel vision, sloppy police work and dodgy evidence. What's most concerning is the justice system circling the wagons and denying him the right to any avenue of appeal. I would have thought the prosecution lying about the watch would have been enough to earn him one. Apparently not in NZ.
 
Hard Cheese said:
Samson

Thanks for the link. A case I was not familiar with at all, yet it follows the same depressing pattern of the Lundy and Watson cases - tunnel vision, sloppy police work and dodgy evidence. What's most concerning is the justice system circling the wagons and denying him the right to any avenue of appeal. I would have thought the prosecution lying about the watch would have been enough to earn him one. Apparently not in NZ.
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In fairness, I am not sure they lied about the watch. Well, even as I type that, I guess they did insofar as they stated it was Hoglin's watch without proof. Is a false assumption a lie?
hmmm.

One of the wry comments was, how unlucky were these tourists? They were murdered by one Coromandel offender, and then their car was stolen by another bush dweller who had manslaughtered a 22 year old and home invaded and raped a 62 year old?
Yet in a sense these are not dependent throws of the dice.

You are murdered in a remote location, then after two days your "abandoned" car is stolen independently by another miscreant. This seems very plausible.
 
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Samson said:
In fairness, I am not sure they lied about the watch. Well, even as I type that, I guess they did insofar as they stated it was Hoglin's watch without proof. Is a false assumption a lie?
hmmm.
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If you were being generous you'd call it sloppy police work. If they presented the watch as being Hoglin's without any corroborating evidence, and without any attempt made to determine it's provenance, then I'd call it a lie, because the prosecution could have presented it to the court as speculation, instead they presented it as fact.

Samson said:
You are murdered in a remote location, then after two days your abandoned car is stolen independently by another miscreant. This seems very plausible.
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Agreed. An abandoned car in a remote location is eventually going to be broken into by someone - I'd be surprised if it didn't happen.
 
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Hard Cheese said:
If you were being generous you'd call it sloppy police work. If they presented the watch as being Hoglin's without any corroborating evidence, and without any attempt made to determine it's provenance, then I'd call it a lie, because the prosecution could have presented it to the court as speculation, instead they presented it as fact.

Agreed. An abandoned car in a remote location is eventually going to be broken into by someone - I'd be surprised if it didn't happen.
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And that person will have a criminal history. But that person will not have murdered the recent lessees two days earlier.

How much artifice and second guessing was going on with Tamihere? The pattern is common, behaviour after a crime is either consistent or not with guilt. Here it seems implausible, but other experienced criminologists might see something I am missing.
 
Samson said:
And that person will have a criminal history. But that person will not have murdered the recent lessees two days earlier.
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Again agreed. You also don't normally leave your car with all your possessions in a remote location for any length of time, unless something has happened. A breakdown would be the most likely cause, but the longer the car is abandoned in such a state, the more likely it's something bad (accident or foul play). Perhaps that reasoning is somewhat circular, but I think that the scenario of two independent acts (murder and theft) happening so close to each other is more probable than would appear at first glance.

Samson said:
How much artifice and second guessing was going on with Tamihere? The pattern is common, behaviour after a crime is either consistent or not with guilt
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Driving around in your victims car, you're either not guilty, or a complete idiot. It's not uncommon for dumb criminals to use their victims possessions though, so I wouldn't discount it. Tamihere is not being accused of being a criminal genius like Mark Lundy.
 
Hard Cheese said:
Again agreed. You also don't normally leave your car with all your possessions in a remote location for any length of time, unless something has happened. A breakdown would be the most likely cause, but the longer the car is abandoned in such a state, the more likely it's something bad (accident or foul play). Perhaps that reasoning is somewhat circular, but I think that the scenario of two independent acts (murder and theft) happening so close to each other is more probable than would appear at first glance.

Driving around in your victims car, you're either not guilty, or a complete idiot. It's not uncommon for dumb criminals to use their victims possessions though, so I wouldn't discount it. Tamihere is not being accused of being a criminal genius like Mark Lundy.
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The unsolved/unresolved cases are charecterised by multiple appeals, and refusal to show remorse. David Tamihere follows the pattern. Without going back to the links, there appears to be a plausible alternative suspect, with a specific and detailed account of an assault.
I now regard the murders of Hoglin and Pakkonen as unsolved, and we should be curious why Law Enforcement have abandoned the search for the killer, as they have done for the killer of Scott Guy. (who was not Ewan McDonald)
 
Hard Cheese said:
Just as a matter of interest, which bucket would you put Tamihere in?
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Undecided.

There are a couple of peculiar things about this case that cause me concern.

Firstly, a key part of the case against him was that Police accused him of stealing Urban Hoglund's watch and giving it to his son. It was the Police's so-called proof that Tamihere had been in personal contact with Hoglund, but when Hoglund's body was discovered, the watch was still on him.... the Police lied.

Secondly, the Police had a jail house witness who testified that Tamihere had confessed to cutting up the bodies and throwing them into the ocean. The discovery of Hoglund's body on dry land 73 km away from where the Police said the murders took place makes them liars again.

There is no doubt that Tamihere is a real bad bastard with a long criminal history that includes manslaughter, burglary, assault, sexual violation and menacing. I'm not so concerned about his being in jail for a crime he might not have committed as I am that, if he didn't do it (and it seems entirely possible that he didn't) then the real perpetrator is still at large.
 
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One thing about the car Tamihere stole.

Did Tamihere have a record of car conversion? I can't see any, and starting a car without a key is a trick not many ordinary crims know, so if he has no record for it, it would be quite damning that he was able to hook it.
 
The Atheist said:
One thing about the car Tamihere stole.

Did Tamihere have a record of car conversion? I can't see any, and starting a car without a key is a trick not many ordinary crims know, so if he has no record for it, it would be quite damning that he was able to hook it.
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1977Subywagon.jpg


A clapped out 1977 Subaru wagon? My grand-daughter's teddy bear could hotwire one of those, even back in 1990. Behind the Mark 1 Cortina, they were the most stolen car on NZ roads
 
smartcooky said:
A clapped out 1977 Subaru wagon? My grand-daughter's teddy bear could hotwire one of those, even back in 1990. Behind the Mark 1 Cortina, they were the most stolen car on NZ roads
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Yeah, good point. I was forgetting how long ago it was.

Anyway, even if he's not guilty I'd find it very hard to care that he was banged up for it.
 
The Atheist said:
Yeah, good point. I was forgetting how long ago it was.

Anyway, even if he's not guilty I'd find it very hard to care that he was banged up for it.
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Ah but it becomes part of a long series of inept and or corrupt police work that makes NZ far worse than England or US on a per capita basis. Added to which we have bravely rid us of privy council. You are one complacent unit.
 
Samson said:
You are one complacent unit.
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Absolutely the opposite.

But I'm not about to shed any tears for a piece of human garbage like Tamihere. I thought he was dying anyway - seems to be taking far too long to happen.
 
Without any doubt David (Wayne) Tamihere is innocent of these murders.

He could explain exactly how to unlock their car a year later with number 8 wire. This is a data point that makes every aspect of the crown theory impossible.

Once more a dangerous killer was allowed to roam free.
 
smartcooky said:
[qimg]https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/98915197/JREF/1977Subywagon.jpg[/qimg]

A clapped out 1977 Subaru wagon? My grand-daughter's teddy bear could hotwire one of those, even back in 1990. Behind the Mark 1 Cortina, they were the most stolen car on NZ roads
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He did not need to hot wire the car. It came with one cracked key, they cut more and left spares in the glove box. Tamihere in hand cuffs showed how he bent the wire to toggle the lock. A man who broke into the car is not the killer.
 
Showing my childhood upbringing a bit too much but half the cars around could be broken into with a coat hanger and some ripping up the ignition in the late 80's. So considering I could start my sister's Morris from the 70s with a two cent piece I'm thinking it's feasable
 
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