David Evans falls off the Global Warming Woo Wagon too!

[mhaze]

This thread is ridiculous, really - think about it. Some guy that walks out of a really dumb government bureocracy with fat, high paying jobs in Australia. He writes a few articles about it. Newspapers, etc pick it up since it's obviously of public interest. He knows a bit about the subject, has some credentials and makes no exaggerations about what he has done.

Most people would read the newspaper, blog or web article and just lodge a few factoids away from it, read it find it was of no interest and move on, or whatever - read the whole thing, etc. It's just a newspaper article.

Deniers? Oh my, my. They have to jump all over it, gloat about it, start threads on it on boards like this one, post it to existing threads on global warming wherever they can find them *, pretending that it's of enormous significance and "proof" that the previously convinced are abandoning AGW like rats deserting a sinking ship ...

[* http://www.doctorwhoforum.com/showthread.php?t=186721&page=14

Yes that's a global warming thread on the Doctor Who forum, where the resident denier posted this article even before kallsop posted it here.]

No, Pixel. I assume that most people who have been around for a while know that David Evans has been occasionally popping up for several years. There is not any "new news" here, just a newspaper that picked up his story as a public interest item. By the way your link no worky.

Oh, in any case, if someone did

jump all over it, gloat about it, start threads on it on boards like this one, post it to existing threads on global warming wherever they can find them *, pretending that it's of enormous significance and "proof" that the previously convinced are abandoning AGW like rats deserting a sinking ship ...

That would be as ridiculous as the Warmers doing what I said they are doing, assisted by their Paid PR Men.

 

[Pixel42]

I assume that most people who have been around for a while know that David Evans has been occasionally popping up for several years. There is not any "new news" here, just a newspaper that picked up his story as a public interest item.

And yet we have this thread, and deniers posting it all over the internet on threads where most people haven't "been around for a while".

By the way your link no worky.

Yes it does. Though, now I come to think of it, you might have to register to read it.

Oh, in any case, if someone did

If someone did! Have you read this thread title and OP?

If someone did!

 

[TrueSceptic]

This thread is ridiculous, really - think about it. Some guy that walks out of a really dumb government bureocracy with fat, high paying jobs in Australia. He writes a few articles about it. Newspapers, etc pick it up since it's obviously of public interest. He knows a bit about the subject, has some credentials and makes no exaggerations about what he has done.

Most people would read the newspaper, blog or web article and just lodge a few factoids away from it, read it find it was of no interest and move on, or whatever - read the whole thing, etc. It's just a newspaper article.

Yes, ridiculous.

Most people would not even know about it because it's of zero importance. The Deniosphere, however, picks it up and makes stupid claims about it. kallsop is happy to commit another drive-by and lob the non-story through the window.

The hypocrisy and absence of self-examination of denialists is truly breath-taking.

 

[blutoski]

Which makes perfect sense to me given your viewpoint. But making a big deal of a "newspaper article" is beyond belief...

Beyond belief?

Our skeptical society has had a media action committee for twenty years.

We feel an important role in skepticism is to combat media distortion. Whether it's a press release by a sCAM promoter, or a press release by a AGWDenier, it's all the same to skeptics: bad science that could lead to consequences for readers justifies a response. A response will help educate readers not only in the facts of the case, but possibly inspire them to practice skepticism in future.

I don't see a reason to make a special exception for AGWDeniers.

 

[JoeEllison]

Yes, ridiculous.

Most people would not even know about it because it's of zero importance. The Deniosphere, however, picks it up and makes stupid claims about it. kallsop is happy to commit another drive-by and lob the non-story through the window.

The hypocrisy and absence of self-examination of denialists is truly breath-taking.

So, when an AGW denier quotes a newspaper article(or blog, or whatever) that supports their false viewpoint, it is relevant and "proves" their false point. When the article is shown to be misleading or an outright lie, other AGW deniers will attack the reality-based community for "making a big deal" out of it?

 

[CapelDodger]

So, when an AGW denier quotes a newspaper article(or blog, or whatever) that supports their false viewpoint, it is relevant and "proves" their false point. When the article is shown to be misleading or an outright lie, other AGW deniers will attack the reality-based community for "making a big deal" out of it?

Truth to tell, we don't get offered much to gnaw on these days. Nothing substantial, just a thin regurgitated gruel of self-reference.

Now that the hubbub has died down at the climate-crank clubhouse, the echo-chamber effect is coming across very clearly. It happens in the dying phase of any cult (which can have a very long tail, of course).

 

[TrueSceptic]

So, when an AGW denier quotes a newspaper article(or blog, or whatever) that supports their false viewpoint, it is relevant and "proves" their false point. When the article is shown to be misleading or an outright lie, other AGW deniers will attack the reality-based community for "making a big deal" out of it?

That's it. What still amazes (pun?) is the utter shamelessness of the hypocrisy and dishonesty.

 

[JoeEllison]

Truth to tell, we don't get offered much to gnaw on these days. Nothing substantial, just a thin regurgitated gruel of self-reference.

Now that the hubbub has died down at the climate-crank clubhouse, the echo-chamber effect is coming across very clearly. It happens in the dying phase of any cult (which can have a very long tail, of course).

Giant, huge, exceedingly stupid tail? Can't we just nip it in the bud?

 

[JoeEllison]

That's it. What still amazes (pun?) is the utter shamelessness of the hypocrisy and dishonesty.

Maybe they think we won't notice?!?!?! Or, just as likely, they post to bolster their fellow idiots, as their fellow idiots' posts bolster them.

 

[gdnp]

That's it. What still amazes (pun?) is the utter shamelessness of the hypocrisy and dishonesty.

I think a lot of it is self-delusion. They don't want to change, they don't want to sacrifice, they don't want to destroy the planet, so they convince themselves that global warming is make-believe. There may also be an element of the James Watt attitude: the earth was given to us by God to exploit, and the faster we do the quicker the Rapture.

 

[TrueSceptic]

I think a lot of it is self-delusion. They don't want to change, they don't want to sacrifice, they don't want to destroy the planet, so they convince themselves that global warming is make-believe. There may also be an element of the James Watt attitude: the earth was given to us by God to exploit, and the faster we do the quicker the Rapture.

That might apply to some, but there are others who know what they are doing. No one can be that delusional and still be so clever in the political/linguistic/debating sense.

 

[JoeEllison]

That might apply to some, but there are others who know what they are doing. No one can be that delusional and still be so clever in the political/linguistic/debating sense.

Yeah... the ones in charge know they are lying. That means the sources of the anti-AGW propaganda that the deniers always quote. All of those people are lying, and are conscious that they are lying. They count on the stupidity and delusion of the common deniers to propagate their lies.

 

[casebro]

I see Dave Evan's occupation to be as relevant as CapelDoger's, or MHaze's. They are all opinion, with snippets of linkage to science.

So, whose satellites show a drop in global temp? Good or bad science?

Six years is a little bit of history, enough to show some trend. 150 years is also history. But millions is too, and over millions of years, it's been hotter. CO2 has been higher. Both without man made causes. And the temp dropped, and the CO2 dropped, also without man's intervention. So I want proof that man has made the temp rise this time. Not models, not consensii. Proof.

 

[JoeEllison]

So, whose satellites show a drop in global temp? Good or bad science?

Not NASA's. NASA called 2007 the second hottest year on record, and while they expect 2008 to be slightly cooler, they don't consider it to be anything close to the end of the general warming trend.

 

[a_unique_person]

Not NASA's. NASA called 2007 the second hottest year on record, and while they expect 2008 to be slightly cooler, they don't consider it to be anything close to the end of the general warming trend.

When you look at Megalodon's graphs, you can see the temperatures going up in a series of 'steps'. The decadal boundary is arbitrary, but it clearly shows the way the temperature is going up through behind the random fluctuations and weather cycles.

 

[JoeEllison]

When you look at Megalodon's graphs, you can see the temperatures going up in a series of 'steps'. The decadal boundary is arbitrary, but it clearly shows the way the temperature is going up through behind the random fluctuations and weather cycles.

Yes, but... the goofball deniers will claim any month cooler than the same month a year prior to be proof positive that global warming is over... and screw the evidence, and the obvious trends. The "steps" are pretty obvious over the long term, and only the anti-AGW frauds ignore them in favor of tiny slices of the temperature record.

 

[SezMe]

So I want proof that man has made the temp rise this time. Not models, not consensii. Proof.

A childish demand reflecting sad lack of understanding of the issue. Why not ask for proof that a 1/8 slice of peach cobbler pie with a .348 oz dollop of french vanilla ice cream on top is the perfect dessert. Not opinion. PROOF.

Both are equally likely.

 

[JoeEllison]

A childish demand reflecting sad lack of understanding of the issue. Why not ask for proof that a 1/8 slice of peach cobbler pie with a .348 oz dollop of french vanilla ice cream on top is the perfect dessert. Not opinion. PROOF.

Both are equally likely.

The same way that I can demand proof that cigarettes cause cancer, and reject any study that includes people who were not isolated by all possible causes for cancer besides cigarettes. Because I'm sure that the scientists can put an infant in a bubble and pump cigarette smoke into that bubble... the same way idiot deniers seem to want us to produce a second Earth where there are no variables except man-made greenhouse gases.

 

[casebro]

I take those responses as "the AGW theory is non-falsifiable"?

 

[gdnp]

When you look at Megalodon's graphs, you can see the temperatures going up in a series of 'steps'. The decadal boundary is arbitrary, but it clearly shows the way the temperature is going up through behind the random fluctuations and weather cycles.

Remember, there are some non-random fluctuations as well. We probably hit the minimum in the current solar cycle in January. Since average global temperature fluctuates with the solar cycle, 2007 should have been a relatively cool year. Therefore, if the NASA data are correct and 2007 was the second hottest on record, then we should expect temperature increases to accelerate over the next 5-6 years as sunspot activity picks up.