thaiboxerken
Penultimate Amazing
- Joined
- Sep 17, 2001
- Messages
- 35,084
It seems that the latest hot-button protest and anger issues are aimed at data centers these days. Many politicians are leading the way to place moratoriums on their builds and there is a ton of anti-datacenter sentiment out there. Much of it appears to be based on misinformation and ignorance. Some of it is due to some bad behaviors of certain datacenters, which gives a bad rep to the entire industry. My opinion is that not all datacenters are the same, and many companies try very hard to be environmentally safe and good neighbors for two reasons reputation and cost savings (efficiency.)
One claim is that data centers are polluting the water. It doesn't seem to make sense to me. I think a common misconception is that water is being cycled through the servers and then dumped into the water table or drains, which makes absolutely no sense. Computers don't like water. Even liquid-cooled servers are using water that goes through pipes/tubes and coils that never touch the microchips. Those water pathways do not add polution at all. Such servers use closed-loop water systems that only discharge water if they are damaged.
For general cooling, many data centers that use water are cyling water through chiller loops that evaporate the water. They are using a lot of water, based on the server loads. Some data centers use evaporative coolers as well. Neither of those processes pollute the water. I could be wrong, if so, someone can set me straight on that pollution part of it.
In general, data centers are trending towards a zero-water usage cooling strategy. They use air-cooled chillers, which are closed loop systems. They rely on outside air to disperse heat that is carried from the heat source to condenser coils that are big heat sinks exposed to the outside. It's much like a standard AC system, except the refrigerant cools water, instead of air. Again, they only discharge water if they are damaged.
Data centers biggest usage of water is from hotel loads, like any other business, which is bathrooms and kitchens. Sometimes landscaping, which in some localities, they are required to upkeep due to local ordinances. As a whole, the industry in some cities and localities, is less than 2 to 4% of water used by total commercial industries.
Another claim is that they are using so much electricity that it is driving costs up. I would like to see data that this is true. People who claim this have yet to provide it, they simply make the correlation that, since data centers use so much electricity, it is driving energy costs up. This could be true, I'm just not very convinced. I believe that energy costs rising is more a function of The Regime's idiotic war on Iran, and their war on renewables. Electrical costs are going up everywhere, not just where the data centers are.
I believe much of the disdain for data centers is transferrence from the distrust of AI and the big social media companies. I share the disdain for many of these as well. AI should be regulated. Social media needs some regulation as well. Both can, and have, been used for nefarious purposes.
Data centers support many different industries and companies, not just AI and social media. Banks, non-profits, stores and many more entities use and rely on datacenters for their logistic and business needs. Data centers are the backbone of internet. I'm sure this forum exists on a few servers in a datacenter or two. Growth of datacenters isn't just because of AI, it is also because of growing economies. These moratoriums may drive up the cost of doing business. I'm not sure. I don't think it'll stop datacenter growth, it'll slow it down and force some of them to go to other, friendlier jurisdictions.
Another claim is that datacenters do not employ many people. This is misleading. Many datacenters do only, directly, employ a handful of people. However, customers of datacenters are employers and often have employees working in those datacenters. There are many electricians, hvac technicians, cleaning crews and landscaping companies that are utilized by datacenters, which are more jobs in the locality. Logistical outfits often ship to and from datacenters, which is more business. These are small, economic infrastructures that bring money to the places where datacenters are.
Some claims are that datacenters get tax breaks and/or don't pay taxes. That they are, effectively, subsidized by the communities to exist. Maybe this is true for some giants, like Amazon or Meta, but many datacenters aren't big enough to impose these breaks on the local governments. Some local governments have tax breaks for any business to build in their industrial sectors, which does attract datacenters, but also attracts other industries. However, these local goverments do collect taxes, even if they do give some breaks. While property/and or energy taxes may be reduced to attract companies, these same companies pay taxes on inventory. Datacenters bring in millions do their localities because of this. So, the tax-break argument doesn't bother me at all due to this.
Anyway. I wanted to see what opinions there are about this in this forum. Most people in here form decisions based on facts, not what influencers are saying on social media. I would also like to be informed if/where I'm wrong.
For full disclosure, I work for a datacenter and can say, the place I work at is one that uses best practices to maximize efficiency and use zero water.
One claim is that data centers are polluting the water. It doesn't seem to make sense to me. I think a common misconception is that water is being cycled through the servers and then dumped into the water table or drains, which makes absolutely no sense. Computers don't like water. Even liquid-cooled servers are using water that goes through pipes/tubes and coils that never touch the microchips. Those water pathways do not add polution at all. Such servers use closed-loop water systems that only discharge water if they are damaged.
For general cooling, many data centers that use water are cyling water through chiller loops that evaporate the water. They are using a lot of water, based on the server loads. Some data centers use evaporative coolers as well. Neither of those processes pollute the water. I could be wrong, if so, someone can set me straight on that pollution part of it.
In general, data centers are trending towards a zero-water usage cooling strategy. They use air-cooled chillers, which are closed loop systems. They rely on outside air to disperse heat that is carried from the heat source to condenser coils that are big heat sinks exposed to the outside. It's much like a standard AC system, except the refrigerant cools water, instead of air. Again, they only discharge water if they are damaged.
Data centers biggest usage of water is from hotel loads, like any other business, which is bathrooms and kitchens. Sometimes landscaping, which in some localities, they are required to upkeep due to local ordinances. As a whole, the industry in some cities and localities, is less than 2 to 4% of water used by total commercial industries.
Another claim is that they are using so much electricity that it is driving costs up. I would like to see data that this is true. People who claim this have yet to provide it, they simply make the correlation that, since data centers use so much electricity, it is driving energy costs up. This could be true, I'm just not very convinced. I believe that energy costs rising is more a function of The Regime's idiotic war on Iran, and their war on renewables. Electrical costs are going up everywhere, not just where the data centers are.
I believe much of the disdain for data centers is transferrence from the distrust of AI and the big social media companies. I share the disdain for many of these as well. AI should be regulated. Social media needs some regulation as well. Both can, and have, been used for nefarious purposes.
Data centers support many different industries and companies, not just AI and social media. Banks, non-profits, stores and many more entities use and rely on datacenters for their logistic and business needs. Data centers are the backbone of internet. I'm sure this forum exists on a few servers in a datacenter or two. Growth of datacenters isn't just because of AI, it is also because of growing economies. These moratoriums may drive up the cost of doing business. I'm not sure. I don't think it'll stop datacenter growth, it'll slow it down and force some of them to go to other, friendlier jurisdictions.
Another claim is that datacenters do not employ many people. This is misleading. Many datacenters do only, directly, employ a handful of people. However, customers of datacenters are employers and often have employees working in those datacenters. There are many electricians, hvac technicians, cleaning crews and landscaping companies that are utilized by datacenters, which are more jobs in the locality. Logistical outfits often ship to and from datacenters, which is more business. These are small, economic infrastructures that bring money to the places where datacenters are.
Some claims are that datacenters get tax breaks and/or don't pay taxes. That they are, effectively, subsidized by the communities to exist. Maybe this is true for some giants, like Amazon or Meta, but many datacenters aren't big enough to impose these breaks on the local governments. Some local governments have tax breaks for any business to build in their industrial sectors, which does attract datacenters, but also attracts other industries. However, these local goverments do collect taxes, even if they do give some breaks. While property/and or energy taxes may be reduced to attract companies, these same companies pay taxes on inventory. Datacenters bring in millions do their localities because of this. So, the tax-break argument doesn't bother me at all due to this.
Anyway. I wanted to see what opinions there are about this in this forum. Most people in here form decisions based on facts, not what influencers are saying on social media. I would also like to be informed if/where I'm wrong.
For full disclosure, I work for a datacenter and can say, the place I work at is one that uses best practices to maximize efficiency and use zero water.
