Cycling V Running

[BillyJoe]

The rule of thumb that I've guessed at is a 5:1 ratio in distance to be at the same effort, so a 210 km bike ride is the same effort as a 40 km run.

40 km? Well, that's better than 50 km at least.
I did run abour three marathons (42 km) in succesive tears but it was a long time ago. And it was a long way to run. I would have thought that a 210 km bike ride would have been way easier but there we go.

Another rule of thumb I have for biking is that you need to train at 1/3 the distance, three times a week, to be able to finish comfortably. This doesn't mean that you will be able to come close to winning.

70 km bike ride 3 times a week?
HELL!
Earlier this year, I did do a 80 km bike ride along "The Warburton Trail" which follows the path of an old train track a few km form where I live. It took me half a dozen shorter rides of increasing distance to build up to it.
But 70 km THREE times a week!!!

I really will have to think about this.

 

[BillyJoe]

Re: Re: Cycling V Running

1. .....your muscles are used very differently and for a much longer time, and you need to get your butt, hands and feet used to riding (trust me, this is important).

I'm getting the message!

2. If you want to finish the race in a reasonable amount of time you are going to need to be extremely fit.

I would like to just finish but perhaps 12 hours would be my upper limit.
The 80 km ride I mentioned in CurtC reply took just over 4 hours.

3. You will need to ride 5 or 6 days a week, with one long ride a week equaling the time you will spend finishing the race. For example, when I was racing, it would take roughly 5 hours to complete a race of this distance, depending heavily on terrain. This was when I worked a part time job and trained about 350-400 miles per week and raced on the weekends. Basically all I did was ride, sleep and eat.

Well, I don't want to get fanatical and I don't want to actually win the race. Just finishing would be fine.

Now, is this an actual race, or an organized ride? Will you need a racing license or do they have an unlicensed category? I've never heard of such a long race for unlicensed riders, but there's a first time for everything.

I guess it would be described as an "organized ride".
I didn't know there was such a thing as "licenced riders". Are professional riders licensed?

I'm not trying to discourage you from doing this, but you need to know that even a training ride of this length is tough. I also recommend that you try to borrow, beg, or steal a road bike. It will be more difficult on the MTB even with road tires.

Yes, I 'm getting the message about the training and obviously, I will need all the help I can get, so a road bike it is.
Thanks.

 

[BillyJoe]

No! Your crotch will be very sore around the 80 km mark, making you sorry that you hadn't prepared.

I didn't have that problem on the 80 km ride mentioned above. However my left foot went numb and I developed a cramping sensation in my left hand.

Riding on a stationary bike won't help, because it doesn't offer the bumps & vibrations you get from the road.

I can see why it wouldn't be the same but surely it must help?

Also, you might want to look into something called butt balm. Or at least vaseline.

I'm preparing for a bike ride not a ...........

 

[BillyJoe]

If a road bike is suitable for this ride, I would recommend it over a mountain bike any day. If you have to climb paved hills, the road bike will make things easier for you by being lighter.

It is an "around the bay" race. I am led to believe there are only a few small hills. Most of it is a about water level. I am hoping at least.

Also you will ride in a body position that reduces drag. (Yes, that does make a difference.)

Even if there are no or few hills?

Another skin lubricant that works well for long rides is called Body Glide. Looks like a stick deodorant and works quit well. It is not greasy like Vaseline. Bag Balm may be useful after riding to sooth the sore spots.

Thanks. I hope they sell this here in Australia.

Another problem with stationary bikes is that they don't work your core muscles very well, since you don't have to balance the bike. Also the position on a stationary bike may not match your position on the bike you use for the ride. That will make a difference in how you ride the bike.

This is becoming depressing.
First I can't train for a bike race by running and now I can't train for it on an exercise bike.
Hmmmm......I'm starting to wonder whether it will be worth it.

 

[BillyJoe]

Riding once a week will probably be insufficient to get you over the finish line of a 210km race without a great deal of pain.

A ray of hope here......could I make it with a great deal of pain? Others say I couldn't make it, fullstop.

From my experience, I'd say ride at least 3 times/week, doing 50-60km on shorter days, and one ride a week of at least 100km.

Okay a 50 and a 60 and a 100 km ride per week.
I'm thinking maybe the 50 ann 60 on the exercise bike during the week and the 100 km on the Warburton trail on my mountain bike. How does that sound?

I wouldn't want to do a 210km race without doing at least one training ride at 2/3 the distance, or 140km.

But would it be possible to do it with the longest training ride being say 100 km? Before my first marathon run the longest distance I'd run was 16 km. I finished tghe marathon in just under 4 hours.....and more dead than alive. I swore I would not enter another one until properly trained. For the next marathon, my longest training run was 20 km - just under half the marathon distance. I completed it in just under 3 1/2 hours and felt great. For my third and last Marathon I became fanatical annd ran a long distance of 35 km every weekend. It only got me to the line only slightly faster - in just over 3 1/4 hours.....but it was a piece of cake!

I've completed two marathons, Portland, OR and the Walt Disney marathon in Orlando. I had to walk most of the distance, because I suck at running! Definitely, different muscles are used for cycling and running.

This is sinking through. Thanks articbiker.

 

[BillyJoe]

In all honesty, this is not really the kind of ride you want to do if you're not a serious cyclist.

Should I perhaps think about 2004?

DO NOT attempt this ride on a mountain bike! I'm not trying to be rude, but if you don't understand why that should be, you should set your sights a bit smaller.

Is it not possible on a mountain bike fitted with road wheels if the course is relatively flat?

If you want to buy a road bike, fine, but you still need a training plan. Go out and buy the latest issue of Bicycling and follow Carmichael's century plan. Check out the forums on Bicycling.com for lots of good info and help on all aspects of cycling.

That makes sense. When I trained for those marathons, I subscribed to a running magazine and got a lot of good advice form it. It was invaluable. I will check out your references if I decide to go ahead.

I hate to wee on your race, but I want you to enjoy this and be safe as well!

I'm going to enjoy this with you weeing on me??

 

[BillyJoe]

I never run, and I haven't ridden a bike in some time, but I can tell you this: if it's downhill all the way, it should be fairly simple.

(ratcomp, thanks for letting me finish this with a laugh)

Thanks for all your replies,
BillyJoe

 

[John Harrison]

I guess it would be described as an "organized ride".
I didn't know there was such a thing as "licenced riders". Are professional riders licensed?

Yes, both professional racers and amateur racers must be licensed to participate in a race officiated by the US Cycling Federation. The Australian Cycling Federation is Australia's version of this group. The following is how the US defines the different road and mtb categories:

USCF 5 - 4 = NORBA beginner/sport
USCF 3 = NORBA expert
USCF 2 = NORBA Expert or Semi-Pro
USCF 1 = NORBA Semi-Pro
USPRO = NORBA Pro
(A rider must accumulate points from placing in races each calendar year to advance to the next category.)

Your event, however, does not sound like an actual race, but more like an organized ride. This will be to your benefit (and I think more fun), as the ability of the participants will be varied and many may be at your level.

Will the organizers of the ride be providing food stations along the course? How about transportation for those that have mechanical or physical problems that prevent them from finishing?

Edited to add: I found the web site here. There is a link about how to train for it here. (see ATB Beginners Training Tips) It sounds like there will be others in your situation, so in that case I say go for it. Just make sure to follow their advice on training.

 

[NWilner]

There is no real mile to mile "conversion" between running and cycling, but it is possible to make some estimations.

The major difference between running and cycling is that in cycling the power output is roughly equal to the square of the speed. At 17 mph power required for an average road bike is around 90-110 watts. Slowing to 8 mph uses 1/8 of the power approximately, or only 15-20 watts. One could cycle forever at that low power output, except (a) nightfall; and (b) aches and pains from sitting on the bike. Running, in contrast, has a definite minimum power required (below that you walk). The minimum power for keeping in a run depends a lot on weight and running style, but it is something like 70 watts. Even if you can keep that up, joint and muscle fatigue will be limiting.

Another issue is the operation of the bike itself. Skilled cyclists know how to shift their weight slightly on the saddle to avoid "hot" spots; how to work the gears to keep the cadence at most efficient speed (power related but basically 90-110 RPM at the pedals); how to keep the hands happy; how to shift the weight off the arms, etc. You must practice riding to get this right.

Inexperienced but fit riders can ride probably 150 km, however. Not without some pain, mind you. Inexperienced runners have a hard time at 15k.

 

[BillyJoe]

Your event, however, does not sound like an actual race, but more like an organized ride. This will be to your benefit (and I think more fun), as the ability of the participants will be varied and many may be at your level.

Yes, it's more an organized ride than a race. In fact, as you suggest, I don't think it's meant to be a race at all.

Will the organizers of the ride be providing food stations along the course? How about transportation for those that have mechanical or physical problems that prevent them from finishing?

Not sure about food. There is a ferry crossing at the half way point. Perhaps they'll supply food on the ferry.
They do however provide transport for those who can't finish.

Edited to add: I found the web site here. There is a link about how to train for it here. (see ATB Beginners Training Tips)

Excellent. Thanks for the links. I've had a brief read and have earmarked them for further reference.

It sounds like there will be others in your situation, so in that case I say go for it. Just make sure to follow their advice on training.

Yeah, seems like the aim is to complete it in under 12 hours (not sure if this includes the ferry ride). And thanks for the encouragement. I've got five months to train for it - hope it's enough.

 

[BillyJoe]

At 17 mph power required for an average road bike is around 90-110 watts. Slowing to 8 mph uses 1/8 of the power approximately, or only 15-20 watts. One could cycle forever at that low power output, except (a) nightfall; and (b) aches and pains from sitting on the bike. Running, in contrast, has a definite minimum power required (below that you walk). The minimum power for keeping in a run depends a lot on weight and running style, but it is something like 70 watts. Even if you can keep that up, joint and muscle fatigue will be limiting.

Great! All I need in the actual race/ride is to do is to go slow. Perhaps for my first try I should try to do it in just under 12 hours.

Another issue is the operation of the bike itself. Skilled cyclists know how to shift their weight slightly on the saddle to avoid "hot" spots; how to work the gears to keep the cadence at most efficient speed (power related but basically 90-110 RPM at the pedals); how to keep the hands happy; how to shift the weight off the arms, etc. You must practice riding to get this right.

Hmmm.....yes.....it seems I just can't get away from training on the bike.

I'm still wondering though whether I can get away with just one ride per week - I really can't use the bike during the week because of lack of daylight outside working hours. However I have half a day off on Saturday and all of Sunday. I have been for about half a dozen Sunday morning rides already building up to 80 km in just under 4 1/2 hours on my last ride. I'm not sure, however, how a mountain bike on an unmade but relatively flat course compares to a road bike on a sealed surface with some short hills.

 

[Always Free]

So how are you going to train BJ?

 

[BillyJoe]

Not sure yet.

I'll have to take a look at the training advice on John Harrison's links. However, I'm hoping that I'll be able to do it by running every morning from Monday to Saturday - maybe 8 to 10 km per day - and cycle along the Warburton Trail on Sunday morning hopefully building up to half the race distance of 210 km. If I can do the 105 km in under 5 hours without too much trouble, I'll go for it.

Actually the trail is only 80 km return so I'll have to cycle up Mt Donna Duang a bit ( )

 

[Always Free]

At least the weather should make the training a bit easier. Better winter than summer--yes?

But if you go up the mountain look out for the snow

 

[Phaycops]

Why don't you buy a set of rollers so you can ride inside? I rode on mine all winter and the difference at the start of the season was tremendous. I didn't lose my balance so much, and my erm, sensitive girly bits were more prepared for the strain. You'll also need a heart rate monitor. Rollers and HRMs can be found at online shops like Performance or Price Point.

NOTE: NOT a trainer, which bolts onto your back wheel. Rollers look like this:

 

[arcticbiker]

I'm still wondering though whether I can get away with just one ride per week - I really can't use the bike during the week because of lack of daylight outside working hours.

Actually, I find it quite easy to ride in the dark with the right equipment. I rode almost every day last winter (and I'm farther from the equator than you are, so we get even shorter days). The only thing that stops me is tons of snow on the bike paths - but I doubt that will be a problem for you! There are plenty of companies making good headlight sets for bicycles now, and those red LED blinky lights for the rear are cheap and work well. I've even made 3 or 4 sets of night-riding lights, including a white LED cluster, some medium-powered halogen lights, and a 20W halogen high-beam (for fast descents and attention-getting flashes in traffic).

And riding at night can be extra fun! Especially if it's on technical single-track, when the only thing you can see around you is the section of trail ahead of you that's illuminated by your lights - it cuts out distractions and focuses your attention solely on what you need to see.

 

[arcticbiker]

Why don't you buy a set of rollers so you can ride inside? I rode on mine all winter and the difference at the start of the season was tremendous. I didn't lose my balance so much, and my erm, sensitive girly bits were more prepared for the strain. You'll also need a heart rate monitor. Rollers and HRMs can be found at online shops like Performance or Price Point.

NOTE: NOT a trainer, which bolts onto your back wheel. Rollers look like this:

Yes, this works too. My best season racing was after riding a set of rollers 2-3 times a week all winter. I've even competed in roller races in shopping malls (I think I even won something - some cheesy little prize like tire levers or something).

I still prefer riding outside, even here in winter (after one chilly ride to work this winter, I checked the temperature: -27C. Hence the user name.)

 

[Phaycops]

Yes, this works too. My best season racing was after riding a set of rollers 2-3 times a week all winter. I've even competed in roller races in shopping malls (I think I even won something - some cheesy little prize like tire levers or something).

I still prefer riding outside, even here in winter (after one chilly ride to work this winter, I checked the temperature: -27C. Hence the user name.)

Sheesh! Where are you at, Arcitcbiker?! I thought it got cold here!

I lovelovelove my rollers. Now, if only I felt better, I could take advantage of this lovely weather we're finally getting here. Sigh.

 

[no one in particular]

I could take advantage of this lovely weather we're finally getting here.

As if there is any decent singletrack in (or close to) Syracuse! Especially since Skytop has been closed, sigh.

Oops, I don’t mean to hijack, sorry BillyJoe. Here, to be on-topic I will show you how I extend my season by 8 to 10 weeks every year. Arcticbiker is right, singletrack at night is wonderful (albeit spooky when alone).

 

[arcticbiker]

Sheesh! Where are you at, Arcitcbiker?! I thought it got cold here!

Calgary, Alberta. (Canada in case that wasn't obvious.)

Yes, riding in those temperatures can be interesting - I can't wear glasses or goggles, as they frost up, so when I'm riding downhill, sometimes little drops of water on my eyelashes will freeze together, and to get my eyes open again I have to painfully yank the eyelashes apart (just using the eyelid muscles, as hands are inside huge mitts of course).

Sorry for the hijack, BillyJoe. I can get you some information on making your own bike headlights if you's like, just let me know. It can be much cheaper than buying a set - the good ones cost over $150 here.