Cultural Manipulation

[Manny]

Instead of excess wealth being spent on selfish interests or decadence, it will be used productively for the good of society.

At the risk of hearing a 14-year-old's commie screed, why in the world would I go on creating excess wealth if I couldn't keep any of it?

 

[Mycroft]

Decisions will be made on scientific fact, not cultural standpoints. The point is to not allow cultural manipultion cause any sort of corruption in society.

What sort of things do you consider to be "corruption"?

 

[gtc]

...and that we believe that all excess wealth is to be recycled to the lower economic classes, educational system, scientifical foundations and business to better our economy as a whole, and multiply technological progress.

Would you mind explaining the logic in this?

If you give me (a poor student) all your excess wealth, I promise to buy an ipod, big screen TV, digital cable etc. All of this will multiply my technological progress to the betterment of my economy as a whole. I believe this is an admirable start.

 

[Ladewig]

Any wealth that is not in motion to progress society, education and technology.

I'll have a better understanding of your position if you answer a few questions about specific examples.

1) Bill Gates owns somewhere around 50 billion dollars worth of Microsoft stock? Does that money represent progress and if so is it progress in society, education, or technology?

2) If Dick Cheney excercised all of his 400,000 shares of stock options and then held $23,000,000 worth of Halliburton stock, would that money in the excess or the progress category and why?

3) Does my $1000 series-E U.S. government savings bond represent some sort of progress in society? How about my $1000 savings account? My $1000 worth of gold coins? My $1000 worth of limited edition Elvis Presley collector plates (http://www.collectiblestoday.com/ct/product/prdid-101748001.jsp)?

4) Who precisely decides which stock holdings are progressive and which are excessive? I know people who say that even $100 invested in Exxon, Pfizer, or Lockheed-Martin is harmful to society.

 

[Ladewig]

bump to remind blakehaydn of the outstanding questions.

 

[AnotherSillyAlias]

Instead of excess wealth being spent on selfish interests or decadence, it will be used productively for the good of society.

This seems a little harsh. Can't I have even a tiny bit of decadence, say on my birthday for instance?

Other than that I certanly look forward to your technocratic utopia where everything, and everyone, will be perfect.

 

[curi0us]

Ordinarily, political views are motivated and controlled by culture, religion, social standards and the like (supported by an underlying theme of what is "practical" or "just" amongst the brainwashed minds of society). This obviously leads to illogical decisions, which feed off each other, creating even bigger and more complex problems.

I found these opening words interestng but I was surprised to see what seemed to be a serious lack of "logic" at your websites. How do you know you aren't one of the "brainwashed"?

Blakehaydn's website:
http://www.forwardparty.com/

Opening party line:

"New Germany, we can do it."

The Forward Party's logo/flag:


Couldn't help but notice the similarity:

 

[Earthborn]

Couldn't help but notice the similarity:

Hmmm... The MP3 background music is similarly familiar.

 

[clarsct]

Did he just say he was a Technocrat?

I guess he's busily trying to close nodes and suck the magic our of the world, then?

(Those of you who play World of Darkness Roleplay games may know if which I speak. I found the mirroring to be slightly amusing.)


ETA: To think, I wasted my 2000th post on this guy....

 

[Kiless]

Did he just say he was a Technocrat?

I guess he's busily trying to close nodes and suck the magic our of the world, then?

(Those of you who play World of Darkness Roleplay games may know if which I speak. I found the mirroring to be slightly amusing.)


ETA: To think, I wasted my 2000th post on this guy....

You broke the masquerade!

BLOOD HUNT!!!!!!




Yeah, I know, it was not a Vampire reference but I was dying to try out some of the new features...

 

[LW]

Hmmm... The MP3 background music is similarly familiar.

I've turned off all pugins from my browser but the experience of reading the website just wasn't complete until I downloaded a mp3 of Bomben auf Engeland to play on the background.

 

[RandFan]

Instead of excess wealth being spent on selfish interests or decadence, it will be used productively for the good of society.

Been there, done that (see Mao and Stalin).

 

[Ladewig]

blakehaydn, blakehaydn, why have you forsaken us?

 

[Ed]

Any wealth that is not in motion to progress society, education and technology.

What wealth, that is not in your matress, does not meet this definition?

The wealth generated by and expended against pornography is generally credited with the growth of the home video market. Is this what you have in mind as a contribution to progress?

 

[blakehaydn]

the experience of reading the website just wasn't complete until I downloaded a mp3 of Bomben auf Engeland to play on the background.

If only you could see the proud smile on my face after reading this. It's brilliant, good sense of humor.

 

[blakehaydn]

This seems a little harsh. Can't I have even a tiny bit of decadence, say on my birthday for instance?

Other than that I certanly look forward to your technocratic utopia where everything, and everyone, will be perfect.

As many others, you misunderstand my words. Probably because I put them in such "black and white" text (I don't mean that literally).

But free artistry, enjoyment of community, art, hobbies, sex (sexual utopia, if you will), interests and nature are all key elements of a technocratic utopia. Even more so than in the world we know. Mainly because of common sense, but our knowledge in psychology confirms this. The only differences in this type of "strict" technocracy I speak of is that decadent pleasures that are harmful (such as smoking) aren't allowed and corporate corruption of these great things in life are not allowed (which makes them excessive or changes their true meaning). One of the main concerns for technocrats is the corporate control over art and social standards (which regresses societal and economic progress). In a technocracy, art is liberated from these restraints.

I should also clarify... if you are also talking about food...

There are thousands of foods that are good tasting and healthy. The main reason we have unhealthy food is to cut on cost or to create a new decadent taste (both for corporations profit). People are now used to these tastes and cheap products, so they can get defensive over them (they are spoiled). But this is simplu a mix of psychology and adaptation which can be changed in a correct environment.

 

[blakehaydn]

What wealth, that is not in your matress, does not meet this definition?

The wealth generated by and expended against pornography is generally credited with the growth of the home video market. Is this what you have in mind as a contribution to progress?

I'm afraid I don't quite understand what you are asking, maybe if you could clarify what you mean (I think the matress part threw me off).

 

[blakehaydn]

Been there, done that (see Mao and Stalin).

I don't agree with this at all for several reasons. For one, Communism was corrupt on almost every aspect from the very beginning to a very large degree, and both Russia and China were too undeveloped and unorganized (along with their cultures) to take on such a task with this ammount of corruption.

Also, technocratic methods approach issues a completely different manner than Communist. Technocratic methods are based off what is technically feasible and practical to enhance progress. Communism was approachign the people with an ideology with what is "fair for all" with little or no scientific truth to back them. Though technocracy and communism look like twins, they have a completely different personality (yeah, I just made that up now... sorry).

 

[blakehaydn]

At the risk of hearing a 14-year-old's commie screed, why in the world would I go on creating excess wealth if I couldn't keep any of it?

FOR THE YOUTH, COMMUNITY AND STATE!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Most workers already do this, except for the fact that the excess wealth goes to those who are already rich instead of the 3 I mentioned. It's a matter of taking this error and turning it around for good. This question shows the current mindset of America, very unhealthy. The outcome of a capitalist nation who achieved too much power and wealth, one way or another, and didn't know what to do with it. By the way, I am not a communist.

 

[blakehaydn]

What sort of things do you consider to be "corruption"?

I speak of corruption in a social and technical sense. Something that causes regression or stunts social and technical conditions. This is a wide variety of things. But I will give you a great example of corruption that spreads into different levels of both economy and society (to a high degree), the production, purchase, consumption and after effects of alchoholic beverages. Here is a brief text from my site on the matter:

"These industries do us absolutely no good at all, they only cause us harm. We will do everything we can to stop the manufacturing of these products in Wisconsin, and everything we can to "discourage" the delivery and promotion of these products within our borders. When we close down these industries in our own state, the employees of these companies will be offered new jobs
that are helpful to society instead. The corruption of alcoholic beverages and tobacco is a very serious issue, they are scientifically proven to cause serious health problems and cause mental addictions. They create or complicate problems within the family which are contagious and have viciously spread through out our communities. They have turned into a statewide escape from personal problems and void which needs to be replaced by a sense of duty to community, youth and state (identity and self respect). Extracurricular activities must be readily available in every community in correlation with the personal interests and goals of each citizen. The owner's of these corporations have knowingly assaulted our children's minds for wealth and economic power. Though individuals make poor choices when submitting to these products, most of the blame still lies within the environment. To fix the environment we must eliminate the corruption within and fill the void with healthy, progressive alternatives. This is the government's responsibility."

Though it doesn't give you a full answer, I think you can figure out even more answers through the information provided. However, this is a very obvious form of corruption, easy to target (but very good also, because it helps us practice critical thinking). Below are methods that alchohol is corrupting economy and society together...

CONS

1. It takes much man labor, land and facilities to create these products which contribute no remarkable, or even mediocre progress in any way shape or form. These workers and resources could be used in much better ways.

2. Advertisements that parents watch or read are also usually visible to children and teenagers who are affected by the sensational imagery and ads.

3. Alcohol is easily addictive and creates or complicates personal problems, which expand to the family (and children), and eventually community. Also, it takes those consumed by alchohol away from the real issues of their family and community./i] That is a humungous problem in our social structure.

4. Alcohol is often used to escape personal problems, concealing or running from problems only makes them worse (again, these problems spread to others). This is scientific fact, and psychology (plus a good social environment) is what should be helping these people from their problems.

5. Alcohol is physically harmful to you if taken more than moderately.

6. These beverage companies take their profit to expand the problems they create or live on their decadent earnings. They give back to the community to no sufficient degree.

PROS

1. It creates jobs for people (that could be doing better things anyway, there is a lot to do.)

2. It tastes good, it's good for responsible social occaissions (why can't they drink something else anyway).

3. It's great for a romantic night (don't I know it).

4. It can relieve stress if used moderately (but so can countless other things).

I hope I made my self clear with this example. This is a great example of an entire industry that both creates corruption and expands it to other areas of existance beyond rational belief.