Cult Deprogrammers, how do they work?
- Thread starter Daylight
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TragicMonkey
Poisoned Waffles
Just watch out for the "Cult Awareness Network". It was sued into bankruptcy by the Scientologists, purchased by them, and now works to deprogram people from other cults and turn them into Scientologists. Cute, huh. With the purchase, the Scientologists got a nice fat database of the names, addresses, and personal information of previously proven gullible people.
bignickel
Mad Mod Poet God
I have no idea how 'cult programmers' work, because the definition of 'cult' is a wee bit slippery.
To wit: when you're trying to convince someone tied to a chair that their superstitous beliefs have no foundation... at what point does the programmer stop?
When he has got the deprogramee back to his original set of superstitions? IE Xtianity, Islam, Judaism, etc? (in other words, his/her parent's theism). Or does he take the deprogramee all the way out of theism entirely?
I suspect that that's why Randi had a bit of a problem with the whole 'cult deprogramming' thing: when one theist is trying to get your help fighting some other theist, because that other theist is a 'cultist'...
When it comes down to it, supernatural is as supernatural does... IE "kettle calling pot, kettle calling pot..."
To wit: when you're trying to convince someone tied to a chair that their superstitous beliefs have no foundation... at what point does the programmer stop?
When he has got the deprogramee back to his original set of superstitions? IE Xtianity, Islam, Judaism, etc? (in other words, his/her parent's theism). Or does he take the deprogramee all the way out of theism entirely?
I suspect that that's why Randi had a bit of a problem with the whole 'cult deprogramming' thing: when one theist is trying to get your help fighting some other theist, because that other theist is a 'cultist'...
When it comes down to it, supernatural is as supernatural does... IE "kettle calling pot, kettle calling pot..."
I think cult deprogrammers usually operate on people who have been removed from the cult's influence. I don't know how effective they would be on a person who hasn't left the cult yet.
People join cults due to some emotional issue in their life, not for rational reasons. The cult fills the void so to speak. To deconvert someone requires that person reopen that void and it can be very painful so it isn't likely to be all that successful.
JWs, as an example are a group I attempted to reason with once and it was a failure. Basically they came over and wanted to tell me their spiel. I agreed they could return the following week and I would listen to anything they had to say, but in exchange they had to read a short paper I would write for them.
So, I wrote a paper that cited watchtower publications, a former Watchtower VP and other inside sources as well as court cases against the organization showing the false prophecies and abuses of the organization.
They accepted my paper, put it in their briefcase and proceeded to give me their spiel. They assured me they would read it later. The next week they returned and I asked if they had read it. They hadn't.
Another time I worked with a JW and I verbally gave him some of the information. He dismissed all of it as the words of an apostate.
So, even flat out, undeniable, easily verifiable facts are worthless if the individual has fear (or other strong emotion) based reasons for being in the cult to begin with. Cults use the human brain's natural self defense mechanisms against the member.
Good luck finding something that works.
People join cults due to some emotional issue in their life, not for rational reasons. The cult fills the void so to speak. To deconvert someone requires that person reopen that void and it can be very painful so it isn't likely to be all that successful.
JWs, as an example are a group I attempted to reason with once and it was a failure. Basically they came over and wanted to tell me their spiel. I agreed they could return the following week and I would listen to anything they had to say, but in exchange they had to read a short paper I would write for them.
So, I wrote a paper that cited watchtower publications, a former Watchtower VP and other inside sources as well as court cases against the organization showing the false prophecies and abuses of the organization.
They accepted my paper, put it in their briefcase and proceeded to give me their spiel. They assured me they would read it later. The next week they returned and I asked if they had read it. They hadn't.
Another time I worked with a JW and I verbally gave him some of the information. He dismissed all of it as the words of an apostate.
So, even flat out, undeniable, easily verifiable facts are worthless if the individual has fear (or other strong emotion) based reasons for being in the cult to begin with. Cults use the human brain's natural self defense mechanisms against the member.
Good luck finding something that works.
The Central Scrutinizer
Penultimate Amazing
- Joined
- Dec 17, 2001
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- 53,097
I don't know about others, but Mister Mackey does it like this:
"Cults are bad, mmmmmmmmkay?"
Simple, but effective.
"Cults are bad, mmmmmmmmkay?"
Simple, but effective.
Daylight
Critical Thinker
- Joined
- Nov 6, 2004
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- 499
Thanks guys
Would you say people in cults are brainwashed? If so, is there such a thing as anti-brainwashing (is there a correct term?)?
When solders were brainwashed during the war, what did the military do to undo what the enemy had done?
Would you say people in cults are brainwashed? If so, is there such a thing as anti-brainwashing (is there a correct term?)?
When solders were brainwashed during the war, what did the military do to undo what the enemy had done?
Kevin_Lowe
Unregistered
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- Feb 10, 2003
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- 12,221
Daylight said:
The cult mind-state is relatively fragile. Cults keep their members terrified, socially isolated and constantly indoctrinated because if you don't do these things victims tend to up and leave at an unacceptable rate.
So the fundamental anti-brainwashing method is just to get the victim away from the cult and into a supportive social network, because after a month or three there's a good chance they won't want to go back. Then again, if the cult is giving them something they need then there's also a good chance they will go back.
There's anecdotal evidence that pointing out that the cult is stupid, evil, exploitative, does not follow its own rules and so forth (all of which is usually true) can help, but culties are quite capable of ignoring such evidence if they feel like it.
Try them as traitors?
From what I recall, a nice long rest in friendly and familiar surroundings is all it takes to set someone's head mostly straight. This is why cults have very powerful mechanisms to try to prevent their victims from ever getting a nice long rest in friendly and familiar surroundings.
Of course the psychological damage done by cults is absolutely enormous, and getting out of the cult is only the beginning of what is usually a long struggle to regain some kind of happy life. Getting out of the cult environment just the necessary first step.