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Crystal Cathedral/Robert Schuller's ministry in trouble

Questioninggeller

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Seems some megachurches are in trouble:

Televangelist Schuller’s empire in trouble
Leadership stumble brings financial chaos
By GILLIAN FLACCUS
Associated Press
Sunday, February 01, 2009

GARDEN GROVE, Calif. — Once one of the nation’s most popular televangelists, the Rev. Robert H. Schuller is watching his life’s work crumble.

His son and recent successor, the Rev. Robert A. Schuller, has abruptly resigned as senior pastor of the Crystal Cathedral. The shimmering, glass-walled megachurch is home to the “Hour of Power” broadcast, an evangelism staple that’s been on the air for more than three decades.

The church is in financial turmoil: It plans to sell more than $65 million worth of its Orange County property to pay off debt. Revenue dropped by nearly $5 million last year, according to a recent letter from the elder Schuller to elite donors. In the letter, Schuller Sr. implored the Eagle’s Club members — who supply 30 percent of the church’s revenue — for donations and hinted that the show might go off the air without their support.

“The final months of 2008 were devastating for our ministry,” the 82-year-old pastor wrote.
...
Today’s increasingly fragmented media landscape is also to blame, said Quentin Schultze, a Calvin College professor who specializes in Christian media.

Church-based televangelism led by powerful personalities filled TV in the 1980s, but now only a handful of shows remain, he said. Among the struggling ministries are those of Oral Roberts and the late D. James Kennedy of “The Coral Ridge Hour” TV show.

“I don’t see a scenario for maintaining a TV-based megachurch anymore. The days of doing that in the models of Schuller and Jimmy Swaggart and Oral Roberts are over,” Schultze said. “It’s amazing to me that the ‘Hour of Power’ was able to keep going as long as it did.”
...
The elder Schuller, who called his weekly show “America’s Television Church,” founded his ministry in a drive-in theater after moving to Southern California in 1955.

He studied marketing strategies to attract worshippers and preached a feel-good Christianity, describing himself as a “possibility thinker” and spinning his upbeat style into a 10,000-member church and a broadcast watched by millions worldwide.

The church’s main sanctuary, the Crystal Cathedral, is a landmark designed by renowned architect Philip Johnson, with a spire visible from afar amid Orange County’s suburban sprawl. Thousands make the pilgrimage to see where the broadcast is filmed before a live congregation.
...
The church has since instituted a rotating roster of high-profile guest preachers, including Bill Hybels of Willow Creek Community Church, the Chicago-area megachurch, and evangelist Luis Palau.
...
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Source
 
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Good, I hope this place implodes along with the rest of the churches in the world.
 
I don't necessarily want to see all churces go this route: I think some of them are assets to their communities, overall. I wouldn't mind seeing all the churches of smarmy televangelists go this route, though.
 
I don't understand the thrust of the article that TV ministries in general are faltering. What about Joel Osteen? Charles Stanley? Whackadoodle Benny Hinn? Isn't Rick Warren considered to be a televangelist? (I honestly don't know)

But yeah, since I grew up on the PTL Club and Ernest Angley, that to me is the golden age.
 
NewtonTrino said:
Good, I hope this place implodes along with the rest of the churches in the world.
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This won't ever happen. Not because churches are right, but because people will turn to them in the troubled times that might otherwise sweep them away, and because that's exactly what many religions preach. It's circular and self-feeding, only requiring parents, and those seeking an answer to their problems to keep the thing going on and on. :D
 
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$65 million? Sixty-five thousand thousands? Jesus Jumped Up Christ On A Popsicle Stick!!!! $65 million!

That could give every man woman and child in Canada two bucks each! Could supply enough mosquito nets for 650,000 people in tropic countries! It could buy 65 million things at the dollar store!

And Billy Graham said that any preacher with more than one suit is a hypocrite!
 
NewtonTrino said:
Good, I hope this place implodes along with the rest of the churches in the world.
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I hope not all of them crash. there are some good churches out there and some well-meaning pastors out there.

as someone who is a christian




I hope the crystal 'sarcophagus' crashes to the ground.


same with Osteen's Laodicean church of Houston Texas (I mean Lakewood church in Houston Texas



Schuller gave the world Bill Hybels and Rick Warren (aka Beavis and Butthead

and look at how messed-up people are by listening to Schuller and Warren and Hybels
 
RobRoy said:
Out of curiosity, how do you determine which ones are the "good churches" and which are the "well-meaning pastors"?
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it is kinda complicated answer.



compassion, kindness, humility for other and towards others would be 1 answer





Matthew 7:16 Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?


Matthew 7:20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.

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you can tell which churches are bad ones almost off the bat:


any that preach the prosperity gospel (like most of the greedy tv preachers do)



or act like seeker-sensitive preachers like Perry Noble (see video below for info on him)


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HSxkhs9x98w

or act like Gary Lamb (see) http://www.alittleleaven.com/2009/0...-regret-is-not-clubbing-a-church-lady-wi.html



you know you are in a bad church or you have a bad pastor.
 
RobRoy said:
So any that ask for donations are bad?
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to further answer this question

if a donation if going to helping the homeless or a charity like Feed the Children


that YES, that is a good donation


--------------------------------------------------------------


a example of a bad donation would be TBN or DAYSTAR or some of the "preachers" on BET late at night

asking for money so they can live in multi-million dollar homes

(i.e. sowing a "seed of faith"
 
billiefan2000 said:
to further answer this question

if a donation if going to helping the homeless or a charity like Feed the Children
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What if the donation is going to pay for air time, or catering for the filming/broadcast crew, or air/bus travel for the preacher, or day labor to put up his tent and speakers?

What if the preacher dedicates his whole life to preaching the gospel, is he/she allowed a salary to take care of him/her in retirement? What about medical costs?

Is there a percentage you would feel comfortable going to the poor, and the rest going to ministry? Or must it always go to the poor? In which case, what would you suggest the preacher/minister/priest do for food, clothing and shelter?
 
RobRoy said:
What if the donation is going to pay for air time, or catering for the filming/broadcast crew, or air/bus travel for the preacher, or day labor to put up his tent and speakers?

What if the preacher dedicates his whole life to preaching the gospel, is he/she allowed a salary to take care of him/her in retirement? What about medical costs?

Is there a percentage you would feel comfortable going to the poor, and the rest going to ministry? Or must it always go to the poor? In which case, what would you suggest the preacher/minister/priest do for food, clothing and shelter?
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The problem with "prosperity" preaching is that it tells the sheeple that the more they give, the more they will get. It's pretty much saying you can buy your way rich, by sending us your money. Many even have "testimonials" of people it has worked for. Of course they never seem to mention the number that sent in their rent or food money in the belief that it would come back to them many fold, only to be disappointed.

ETA: see http://www.ministrywatch.com/pdf/MWDA_list_of_30_2008.pdf (NOTE:PDF!) for what even the religious consider over the top behavior.
 
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billiefan2000 said:
I hope not all of them crash. there are some good churches out there and some well-meaning pastors out there.

as someone who is a christian




I hope the crystal 'sarcophagus' crashes to the ground.


same with Osteen's Laodicean church of Houston Texas (I mean Lakewood church in Houston Texas



Schuller gave the world Bill Hybels and Rick Warren (aka Beavis and Butthead

and look at how messed-up people are by listening to Schuller and Warren and Hybels
Click to expand...


Hi billiefan, how'ya been? You made me look up Laodicean. Neither cold nor hot -- good stuff.
 
This Guy said:
The problem with "prosperity" preaching is that it tells the sheeple that the more they give, the more they will get. It's pretty much saying you can buy your way rich, by sending us your money. Many even have "testimonials" of people it has worked for. Of course they never seem to mention the number that sent in their rent or food money in the belief that it would come back to them many fold, only to be disappointed.
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Sure, I've heard these stories. I grew up in Utah where tithe was an important part of the religious culture. My friends would tell me these "miraculous" stories about how a mother or father had to choose between buying food or paying rent and paying tithe. Of course, when they paid their tithe they were suddenly rewarded by a bountiful feast, or a windfall of cash. But as you point out, there was no mention of those who paid their tithe, and received nothing in "miraculous" recompense.

Is this the case with Schuller's ministry? My understanding of how Schuller paid for the Crystal Cathedral's construction was not in tithe, but by telling people exactly what they were giving toward: the Cathedral's construction.
 
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RobRoy said:
Sure, I've heard these stories. I grew up in Utah where tithe was an important part of the religious culture. My friends would tell me these "miraculous" stories about how a mother or father had to choose between buying food or paying rent and paying tithe. Of course, when they paid their tithe they were suddenly rewarded by a bountiful feast, or a windfall of cash. But as you point out, there was no mention of those who paid their tithe, and received nothing in "miraculous" recompense.

Is this the case with Schuller's ministry? My understanding of how Schuller paid for the Crystal Cathedral's construction was not in tithe, but by telling people exactly what they were giving toward: the Cathedral's construction.
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I can't answer your question. I'm not familiar with Schuller, other than having read a couple of his motivational books years ago.

My post was to add some information that I thought would support Billiefan2000's comments about the prosperity preachers. Those guys/gals hit a nerve with me, and I jump at any chance to clear up any thoughts that they might not be all that bad. I consider them the scum of the earth. They prey on the poor with no apparent concern. They spew garbage from their mouths in the name of Christ, that would make Jesus roll over in his grave, if that were possible.

If there was a God, and I was it, I'd make hell for those folks be a place where they all hear each other's sermons, endlessly for eternity. And I'd send them there today.
 
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