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Cryptozoology

One of the things that is at times difficult for people living in modern times is to grasp that what we see as mythology was not seen as mythology to the ancients. To them, Zeus, Thor, unicorns and dragons were real - as real as the rock in front of them, and the food on their table. When it was thundering lightning, that was considered evidence that Thor existed. When someone merely told of unicorns and dragons, that was considered evidence of both.

We should always be careful not to expect people in the past to have our understanding of what we know now. What we see as myths today, in a casual way - because we know better - were not myths to those in the past. What we see as evidence today was not what people back then saw as evidence.

Not to say that we have reached the final stage of knowledge: What we know today, will most likely be seen just as naïve as we see the ancients' beliefs today.
 
Naughtyhippo said:
There's a lady down the road who's convinced there's some kind of large cat/beastie that's been killing local cats. There's no shortage of rabbits for the beastie to eat (I once saw a fox look confused over where to begin). It's just the space issue. Where does the BRitish Big Cat stand in the ranks of cryptozoology?
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Big cats are a tricky one. The main problem is that there are lots of different claims, some of which are pure nonsense and others which are actually true, but not really anything to do with cryptozoology. There have been several cases of people reporting big cats in the wild that turned out to be real big cats that had escaped (or been released) from zoos, circuses and the like. However, claiming that non-native animals which are known to have been brought to a country may sometimes be seen in the wild in that country really aren't cryptozoology, it's just something that can be expected to happen from time to time.

On the other hand, there are claims that large, breeding populations of big cats, often claimed to be entirely new species, are living in the wild. Pictures that I've seen have included domestic cats, dogs, foxes, fakes and shadows, but aside from the occasional real escaped big cat, nothing supporting the existence of any continuous or substantial population has been found. As with things like bigfoot and the Loch Ness monster, the fact that waste, remains and bodies would certainly exist if they were real means these claims can be dismissed as nonsense. In any case, there really isn't enough space in Britain for a significant number of large mammals to hide, especially carnivorous ones.
 
Many cryptid stories may arise from sightings of mutants of real animals. For example, one can easily imagine how unicorn legends arose from sightings of other one-horned mutant ungulates.

But we all know that people have wild imaginations and penchants for colorful storytelling and poor observational skills under certain conditions, so in most cases, that is the more parsimonious explanation,
 
Cuddles said:
Big cats are a tricky one. The main problem is that there are lots of different claims, some of which are pure nonsense and others which are actually true, but not really anything to do with cryptozoology. There have been several cases of people reporting big cats in the wild that turned out to be real big cats that had escaped (or been released) from zoos, circuses and the like. However, claiming that non-native animals which are known to have been brought to a country may sometimes be seen in the wild in that country really aren't cryptozoology, it's just something that can be expected to happen from time to time.

On the other hand, there are claims that large, breeding populations of big cats, often claimed to be entirely new species, are living in the wild. Pictures that I've seen have included domestic cats, dogs, foxes, fakes and shadows, but aside from the occasional real escaped big cat, nothing supporting the existence of any continuous or substantial population has been found. As with things like bigfoot and the Loch Ness monster, the fact that waste, remains and bodies would certainly exist if they were real means these claims can be dismissed as nonsense. In any case, there really isn't enough space in Britain for a significant number of large mammals to hide, especially carnivorous ones.
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I watch MonsterQuest quite a bit and they had ome interesting big cat video from Scotland. What they suspect is that these big cats may be exotic pets that were released into the wild when they went out of fashion.

Dee
 
Cuddles said:
As with things like bigfoot and the Loch Ness monster, the fact that waste, remains and bodies would certainly exist if they were real means these claims can be dismissed as nonsense. In any case, there really isn't enough space in Britain for a significant number of large mammals to hide, especially carnivorous ones.
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And notably, here in Northern California where we have breeding populations of a reasonably big cat, there are cougar attacks pretty much annually on random bicyclists, runners, and hikers.
 
There are persistant reports of a big cat in the Blue Mountains on the outskirts of Sydney. The Lithgow Panther, it's called.
 
There have been attacks in Scotland by big cats. Mostly on livestock and occassionally on small kids.

And the whole thing about not finding bodies and remains. When's the lasttime anyone stumbled over a dead bear? MonsterQuest did a great test using a road kill deer to see how long it would take before the body disappeared by scavengers, decomposition, etc. They estimated a month. It took just over 24 hours--And that was just from the flies alone. Throw in animal predation from bears, wolves, foxes, etc, and that's why they've never found any bigfoot remains.

Dee
 
TheDeeMan said:
And the whole thing about not finding bodies and remains. When's the lasttime anyone stumbled over a dead bear? MonsterQuest did a great test using a road kill deer to see how long it would take before the body disappeared by scavengers, decomposition, etc. They estimated a month. It took just over 24 hours--And that was just from the flies alone. Throw in animal predation from bears, wolves, foxes, etc, and that's why they've never found any bigfoot remains.
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Oh, you're gonna love this...
 
I have two examples of mythical creatures being discovered.

1. The Hobbit People in SE Asia.
2. The White Buffalo, born recently somewhere in the heartland.

Both were newsworthy.
 
TheDeeMan said:
There have been attacks in Scotland by big cats. Mostly on livestock and occassionally on small kids.

And the whole thing about not finding bodies and remains. When's the lasttime anyone stumbled over a dead bear? MonsterQuest did a great test using a road kill deer to see how long it would take before the body disappeared by scavengers, decomposition, etc. They estimated a month. It took just over 24 hours--And that was just from the flies alone. Throw in animal predation from bears, wolves, foxes, etc, and that's why they've never found any bigfoot remains.

Dee
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In 24 hours flies ate a deer, including its bones and hair???
 
manofthesea said:
I have two examples of mythical creatures being discovered.

1. The Hobbit People in SE Asia.
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Close, but we have no way of knowing if the hobbits actually spawned any little people myths. This is like how some people think that Komodo dragons started the (European) dragon myth. Although it's possible they could've helped contribute to the legend, the fact of the matter is that dragons are the result of grossly exaggerated stories about constrictor snakes. You can even read scans from an old book on the matter here.

2. The White Buffalo, born recently somewhere in the heartland.
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Not only is that incorrect, but we've been over it before.

TheDeeMan said:
Exactly. New species are being discovered everyday.
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Here's something that notes on the flaw of that line of thinking in regards to cryptozoology. I should also note that the language makes it mildly NSFW.
 
GT/CS said:
In 24 hours flies ate a deer, including its bones and hair???
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No after being surprised that so much of the deer had been consumed in so short a time, filming was stopped. They speculated that in the days/weeks to follow all the little animals that they expeced to see first (foxes, raccoons, etc) would pick over the bones. Hey, it made sense to me.

Dee
 
TheDeeMan said:
No after being surprised that so much of the deer had been consumed in so short a time, filming was stopped. They speculated that in the days/weeks to follow all the little animals that they expeced to see first (foxes, raccoons, etc) would pick over the bones. Hey, it made sense to me.

Dee
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Got it. Looks like I need to work on my reading comprehension.

TheDeeMan said:
MonsterQuest did a great test using a road kill deer to see how long it would take before the body disappeared by scavengers, decomposition, etc. They estimated a month. It took just over 24 hours--And that was just from the flies alone
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on my ps3

AMM, I can't defend the buffalo legend, not my tribe. But the event was newsworthy and they then pointed out a few predictions concerning it's birth.

Whether the florens people inspired which myth is unimportant being they lived approx 13,000 yrs ago, concurrent with modern humans.
 
TheDeeMan said:
There have been attacks in Scotland by big cats. Mostly on livestock and occassionally on small kids.
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There are news cites in the UK for injuries to animals that are attributed, without witnesses, to a big cat:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/england/devon/4599441.stm
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/northern_ireland/3169923.stm
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/england/devon/3186521.stm

I haven't found any cite of an attack on a small child. Do you have one?

Notably, this isn't indicative of a breeding population, as one can occasionally find an unwisely exotic pet kitty in a New York City apartment, too.

In contrast, California Mountain Lion attacks on adult humans happen almost universally with other adult humans there as witnesses, which is already a tremendous step up from finding a hurt cow and thinking that a dog couldn't have done the deed.

Which is to say, it once again goes to the strength of the evidence for these things and the plausibility of hypotheses in the face of that evidence, and not just the idea that it is, to some finite degree, possible.
 
Let's hypothesize that an Alien Big Cat is caught by an amateur cryptozoologist who was led to a site by a single, vague sighting by just one witness. And that there weren't any other sightings/remains/etc. in that area, just going off of that.

Would that be a victory for cryptozoology?
 
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