Crunch time in Zimbabwe

[Jon_in_london]

Most will probably be aware of the ongoing land seizures in Zimbabwe (Actually its called Rhodesia).

Now Robert Mugabe has confiscated some more land to 'redistribute' to 'war veterans' (ie. stealing it to give to his cronies who never went near an AK47).

Now, many have speculated that appropriate pressure from South Africa's president Thabo "I hate white people" Mbeki will be suffcient to correct Mugabe's increasingly nasty and bizarre behaviour. However, Mbeki has declined to do anything at all, not even make a mildly disapproving statement. The reasons for this are simple- Most of the land being confiscated belongs to white people and Mbeki is a frothing rascist (this is in spite of the fact that for every rich, white farmer who gets beaten into a wheelchair and forced to leave the country, 100 black zimbabwean familys are beaten half to death and driven away from their homes and their livelihoods).

Furthermore, Mbeki and Mugabe and 'struggle buddies', they belong to a unique club of champagne marxists who fought against white-supremacist rule in their native homelands and have proceeded to become extremely wealthy at the expense of their people who can all die of AIDS and malnutrition for all they care, which is typical of marxists who have come of age. A struggle-buddy will never EVER speak out against a fellow struggle-buddy for the simple reason that people who live in glass houses know better than to start heaving stones about.

However, the latest pice of real estate to be 'designated' is a rather special one.

http://www.mg.co.za/Content/l3.asp?ao=30545&t=1

The vast estate in the southeastern corner of the country annually produces 236 000 tons of sugar, estimated to be worth R524,8-million. Hippo Valley covers nearly 70 000ha and employs 6 000 full-time workers and 4 000 seasonal workers. With the Triangle sugar estate it produces all of Zimbabwe's sugar and exports large amounts to neighbouring countries.

Whats more, the estate belong to a South African company called Anglo-American.

So here is the crunch. Will Mbeki finally take the all important step and criticise his struggle-buddy? Or will he remain silent and allow one of his own country's assests to be seized?

Personally I think the latter.

Can someone explain to me why £billions of British tax money is being poured into this bottomless pit of despots that is Africa?

 

[Zep]

I'm surprised that ANY British tax pounds are being sent to Zimbabwe at all these days. I would have thought that had all stopped decades ago when Rhodesia proclaimed independence. So it seems I stand to be enlightened on the subject!

 

[Jon_in_london]

I'm surprised that ANY British tax pounds are being sent to Zimbabwe at all these days. I would have thought that had all stopped decades ago when Rhodesia proclaimed independence. So it seems I stand to be enlightened on the subject!

I dont know if any £s have been given to Zim lately but certainly there was a lot going in after 1980 and theres a lot going to other places, including South Africa.

 

[Giz]

I'm surprised that ANY British tax pounds are being sent to Zimbabwe at all these days. I would have thought that had all stopped decades ago when Rhodesia proclaimed independence. So it seems I stand to be enlightened on the subject!

The UK stated - post UDI - that it would make funds available so the land reform could be carried out. I believe a couple of hundred million sterling was paid though that's now dried up due to Mugabe identifying the Zim group who most need land as his cronies.

It really annoyed me when the BBC etc would show pictures of the 18 year olds seizing farms and then parrot the Mugabe line, calling them "war veterans". Any war veteran would have had to have been toting an AK47 in say 1980 (or before). Old soldiers never die - or in fact AGE AT ALL! - in Mugabeland it seems.

Your thread doesn't appear to be generating much response Jon, perhaps you should have worked in America, WMDs or Israel. Here's a suggestion - "US notes Mugabe has a many WMDs as Iraq! Is regime change worth another Bush war?"

 

[The Don]

Britain in Zimbabwe has the misfortune to be the ex-colonial power. Among African leaders the "ex-colonial power" defence has been used successfully on the grounds that any self-repecting leader CANNOT be seen to support the "ex-colonial power" against an African neighbour/brother.

In this way it's like the "anti-semitism" defence used by some zionists to conter any arguments agaist their actions (if you tell me that 'x' is bad then you're antisemitic - you support Hitler) (that'll get some action on this thread).

Mugabe is very skilled at employing the "ex-colonial power" defence to head off criticism of his regime. His recent performances before the Commonealth heads of government meeting is a good example.

A big issue with deposing Mugabe is that a substantial minority of rural people are either pro- or at the very least ambivalent about him.

 

[hammegk]

... it seems I stand to be enlightened on the subject!

Well it would be a start I suppose.

When the Brits deported your ancestors etal it appears to have increased the average IQ for the stay-at-home Brits.

What was the effect in Australia? Average IQ decreased?

 

[Jon_in_london]

It really annoyed me when the BBC etc would show pictures of the 18 year olds seizing farms and then parrot the Mugabe line, calling them "war veterans". Any war veteran would have had to have been toting an AK47 in say 1980 (or before). Old soldiers never die - or in fact AGE AT ALL! - in Mugabeland it seems.

Spot on with the 'war veterans' who werent even born before 1980. Ill wager the average age of veterans is around the 40-60 mark. There were around 60,000 of them when they were de-mobbed in 1980, amazingly in the space of 24 years this number has increased to at least a hundred thousand.

Don- an extension of the 'evil-colonialists' canard is to blame all of the country's ills on the legacy of colonialism (and/or aparthied in SA) which is used to excuse the fact that the country has taken gigantic strides backwards since independence and draw attention away from the fact that while your people strave and rot with AIDS, you have just bought a new £30million private jet to fly to London and go on a shopping spree in Harrods.

 

[The Don]

Don- an extension of the 'evil-colonialists' canard is to blame all of the country's ills on the legacy of colonialism (and/or aparthied in SA) which is used to excuse the fact that the country has taken gigantic strides backwards since independence and draw attention away from the fact that while your people strave and rot with AIDS, you have just bought a new £30million private jet to fly to London and go on a shopping spree in Harrods.

But now you're saying that *they* can't run their own country. I call shennanigans and employ the ex-colonial power defence.

Of course it IS the fault of the colonial power for throwing a bunch of tribes who can't stand each other together into a single country. Quite often a corrupt minority rise to the top and rule depite their paucity of numbers.

Of course I'm talking about the Scots here

 

[Jon_in_london]

Of course it IS the fault of the colonial power for throwing a bunch of tribes who can't stand each other together into a single country. Quite often a corrupt minority rise to the top and rule depite their paucity of numbers.

Has sometimes happened but I dont think this is generally the rule.

For example, in Zim there are only two tribes- the Shonas and the Matabele. The Shona are Mugabes lot and the Matabele are actually Ngoni- ie Zulus. You would be right in saying they cant stand each other but the current violence in Zim isnt along tribal lines, its simple violent oppression.

 

[E.J.Armstrong]

originally posted by Jon_in_london
Most will probably be aware of the ongoing land seizures in Zimbabwe (Actually its called Rhodesia).

The internationally agreed name for the country is the Republic of Zimbabwe actually. It was only during the racist and apartheid regime of Ian Smith that it was called the State of Rhodesia.

I agree with the despicable nature of Mugabe's regime.

But don't the natives have an unbounded cheek renaming their country after local arcitecture rather than a man who restricted the votes of native Africans in the Cape Colony? Were they treated well?

Cecil Rhodes invaded Rhodesia with a force of 200 white settlers and 500 armed men. After much warfare, the foreign settlers enacted a series of legal instruments to grab the native land. The Lippert Concession Act allowed and encouraged these foreign invaders to buy concessions in Zimbabwe from the British government. The revenue was repatriated to Britain, while the original landowners, the natives of Zimbabwe were deprived of any payment. 97% of the blacks were forcibly confined to 23% of the land, while 3% of the population, the whites, controlled 75% of the land. This was in 1914. Another Act, in 1930, segregated the blacks and whites. In 1934, the Industrial Conciliation Act banned Zimbabweans from skilled employment forcing them to work in the mining industry and serve the white farmers for a pittance. When Ian Smith took over, he not only burnt and destroyed huts but also forcibly evicted many natives to make space for Europeans. During his regime 90% of black Rhodesian children were malnourished. Smith rationed the food and starved, deliberately the already undernourished black population. He cut funding for black education deliberately, spending only $5,- on each black child, compared to $80,- on each white child. Blacks were rounded up into concentration camps, which he called "protective villages" and kept 20 miles away from the European suburbs.

from http://www.dailymirror.lk/2003/12/11/opinion/2.asp

 

[Zep]

Well it would be a start I suppose.

When the Brits deported your ancestors et al it appears to have increased the average IQ for the stay-at-home Brits.

What was the effect in Australia? Average IQ decreased?

You DO know that they used to send all the British convicts to the American colonies LONG BEFORE they started sending them to New South Wales? And they had been doing that for about 100 years? So what does that say about the IQ of the original American colonists, using your theory?

 

[hammegk]

I understand you don't see any distinction between "your ancestors" and "Brit convicts". Must be tough to be in a group the majority of whom appear to have the same problem.

And what did you say the effect was on average Aussie IQ?

 

[fishbob]

You DO know that they used to send all the British convicts to the American colonies LONG BEFORE they started sending them to New South Wales? And they had been doing that for about 100 years? So what does that say about the IQ of the original American colonists, using your theory?

And before that, the American colonists were religious fundamentalists. So I think we in the US deserve some credit for what we have overcome.