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Creationism in school.

"private religious school in South Carolina"

Not surprised at all. Private schools in Texas are not required to take the statewide assessment, TAKS.

I think part of that is so that stuff like this is not so thoroughly exposed.
 
This kind of stuff sickens me. "Sure, we're damaging the kids' ability to compete effectively with the global workforce, and we're probably lowering their expected quality of life, but hey! More pennies in the pie tins!"
 
Mister Earl said:
This kind of stuff sickens me. "Sure, we're damaging the kids' ability to compete effectively with the global workforce, and we're probably lowering their expected quality of life, but hey! More pennies in the pie tins!"
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I think it's sad that children are being taught nonsense as truth, but I dismiss as hyperbole the notion that belief in creationism damages anyone's ability to compete effectively with the global workforce.

Unless they're hoping to become paleontologists, their beliefs about creationism and evolution are as irrelevant as whether or not they know the list of British Kings and Queens, or the list of American Presidents, or the scientific names of all the bugs in their back yards.

On the job, it's just not something that's likely to come up.
 
zeggman said:
Unless they're hoping to become paleontologists...
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That's a variation on what I told my 10th grade algebra teacher.

She said, "You better start getting this."
I said, (with the wisdom of a 16-year-old), "I don't plan on becoming a mathematician."
 
newyorkguy said:
That's a variation on what I told my 10th grade algebra teacher.

She said, "You better start getting this."
I said, (with the wisdom of a 16-year-old), "I don't plan on becoming a mathematician."
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I used to have to use algebra when I was shopping, to figure out that the ten pound bag of sugar for $7 was more expensive than the four pound bag of sugar for $2.50. Now, they post the per-unit prices right on the shelf.

If it wasn't for computer graphics and machine learning, I might go for years without using any math beyond simple arithmetic.
 
Mister Earl said:
This kind of stuff sickens me. "Sure, we're damaging the kids' ability to compete effectively with the global workforce, and we're probably lowering their expected quality of life, but hey! More pennies in the pie tins!"
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I yelled "what the heck" until my dirty mind registered the "e" in the word.
 
zeggman said:
I think it's sad that children are being taught nonsense as truth, but I dismiss as hyperbole the notion that belief in creationism damages anyone's ability to compete effectively with the global workforce.

Unless they're hoping to become paleontologists, their beliefs about creationism and evolution are as irrelevant as whether or not they know the list of British Kings and Queens, or the list of American Presidents, or the scientific names of all the bugs in their back yards.

On the job, it's just not something that's likely to come up.
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I respectfully disagree. The problem goes far further than just simple creationism. Theistic type education also has a tendancy to discourage critical thinking and asking questions. They don't want to just make kids think Jesus rode around on a saddled Allosaur. They want the kids to be trained to not question it.

Could you not see a problem with a work force full of people who not only believe nonsense, but vehemently defend that nonsense? What if your doctors replacement doesn't have "faith" in antiobotics, and instead wants to light a candle by your bed? Or pray for you? Or try to rid your body of bad humors? This is just one example where poor education can lead to problems.

And by forcing this garbage in the public education system (not in this case, of course, but it's happend and attempted many times elsewhere) they're trying to streamline the process.

As you can see, this is a topic very near and dear to me. :D
 
Alareth said:
Ken Ham is unhappy with all the negative attention the big mean atheists are giving to this story. (Apparently the test was based directly off an Answers in Genesis "educational" DVD)

http://www.answersingenesis.org/articles/2013/04/30/atheists-attack-christian-school
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In his language you can see how Ken Ham has conveniently bought into truth relativism and has no scruples to prevent him confidently proclaiming anything that suits him. Typically he spins the criticism of his teaching of falsehoods to children as an attack on Christianity.
 
It's funny how these kinds of folks have no qualms whatsoever in bearing false witness against their neighbors.
 
Mister Earl said:
Theistic type education also has a tendancy to discourage critical thinking and asking questions.
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I was raised in a religious household and went to religious schools my entire education. You know what discourages critical thinking and questioning skills? Dumb-ass parents that don't read to their children when they are young, don't make education a priority and never get off their fat, lazy asses to come to a parent-teacher meeting.
 
Mister Earl said:
I respectfully disagree. The problem goes far further than just simple creationism. Theistic type education also has a tendancy to discourage critical thinking and asking questions. They don't want to just make kids think Jesus rode around on a saddled Allosaur. They want the kids to be trained to not question it.
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Maybe. While I don't have any first-hand experience with creationist Christian education, I don't doubt that critical thinking about religious questions is discouraged. That doesn't mean critical thinking in general is discouraged; the father of the girl whose exam was posted said "it's a great school for reading, writing, and math" which seems appropriate for a 4th-grade class. I know critical thinking wasn't encouraged in my 4th grade public school class, but if they'd encouraged me to ask "were you there?" they would probably have heard it a lot more than they would have liked.

Mister Earl said:
Could you not see a problem with a work force full of people who not only believe nonsense, but vehemently defend that nonsense? What if your doctors replacement doesn't have "faith" in antiobotics, and instead wants to light a candle by your bed? Or pray for you? Or try to rid your body of bad humors? This is just one example where poor education can lead to problems.
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But honestly, such a manufactured example is hardly an argument. Again, I don't have first-hand experience with creationist curricula, but I did order a creationist science book (Science: Order and Reality) just out of curiosity. Outside of the chapter which refutes evolution (caption for pictures of trilobite and dinosaur egg fossils -- "The silent testimony of the fossil record -- the best physical evidence against evolution"), the science taught in that book is pretty mainstream.

My instinct is that critical thinking is probably still encouraged in the vast realms of knowledge which do not intersect dogma.

Mister Earl said:
And by forcing this garbage in the public education system (not in this case, of course, but it's happend and attempted many times elsewhere) they're trying to streamline the process.

As you can see, this is a topic very near and dear to me. :D
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I will work to defeat any attempt to teach creationism in a public school, but I don't get too worked up at the thought that Christians are teaching mostly harmless nonsense in their own schools on their own dime.

In the long run, it may even be good for critical thinking. If someone leaves the Christian academy and looks at the evidence for evolution objectively, they may start to wonder which of the other things they were taught were also nonsense.
 
Alt+F4 said:
I was raised in a religious household and went to religious schools my entire education. You know what discourages critical thinking and questioning skills? Dumb-ass parents that don't read to their children when they are young, don't make education a priority and never get off their fat, lazy asses to come to a parent-teacher meeting.
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I can sort of agree. But there's religious educators, and then there's creationist-fringe-nutball religious educators. They're in entirely different groups. I don't put the second in the first. I don't consider the second a problem. Only the first group, and even then only because they're intentionally doing damage for the sake of money.
 
zeggman said:
In the long run, it may even be good for critical thinking. If someone leaves the Christian academy and looks at the evidence for evolution objectively, they may start to wonder which of the other things they were taught were also nonsense.
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Good point. Being raised with such a narrow viewpoint made me question EVERYTHING so much more when I got older. I'm not saying it made my life easier (it didn't) but made me appreciate my parents so much.
 
zeggman said:
I think it's sad that children are being taught nonsense as truth, but I dismiss as hyperbole the notion that belief in creationism damages anyone's ability to compete effectively with the global workforce.

Unless they're hoping to become paleontologists, their beliefs about creationism and evolution are as irrelevant as whether or not they know the list of British Kings and Queens, or the list of American Presidents, or the scientific names of all the bugs in their back yards.

On the job, it's just not something that's likely to come up.
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Any job related to biology, including most of medical science, requires understanding evolution.

And job related to geology requires knowledge of the age of the earth and of plate tectonics.

Any job required to meteorology, climatology, or the environment requires knowledge of how the climate changes, including the current global warming.

Unless your job is simply physical labor, you probably need to know something that belief that dinosaurs and man could have lived together interferes with.
 
zeggman said:
In the long run, it may even be good for critical thinking. If someone leaves the Christian academy and looks at the evidence for evolution objectively, they may start to wonder which of the other things they were taught were also nonsense.
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We sort of agree in the most, but I still disagree here at the end. I do not consider creationism harmless. I'm of the opinion that educators who push that creationism nonsense will teach children to not look at things objectively, since that is counterproductive with the theological teaching.

I have family who are creationist nuts. I have friends who are creationist nuts. And I see them harmed constantly because of it. Nothing blantantly and direct... but I do see impact. I've seen Tredeau's magic "medical cures THEY don't want you to know about" on many of their book shelves. I see them indulge in reckless behavior because they're not accountable for anyone's lives, because "God will provide". They don't care if we chop down every tree, burn every petrochemical, destroy every ecosystem. Because, I kid you not, "God will just give us a new world" or "The end times would just be sooner."

Horrifying.
 
These days you could become a millionaire and still believe that dinosaurs and humans lived together at the same time. In fact, that belief would only label you "quirky" in intelligent circles and par with the course in the rest of America. If you can get the job done no one cares what you think about dinosaurs.
 
Alt+F4 said:
These days you could become a millionaire and still believe that dinosaurs and humans lived together at the same time. In fact, that belief would only label you "quirky" in intelligent circles and par with the course in the rest of America. If you can get the job done no one cares what you think about dinosaurs.
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And more the shame for America. A high school education should give sufficient understanding of what we know and how we know it for people to recognise such beliefs for the nonsense that they are.
 
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