Cranial Osteopathy/Cranio-Sacral Therapy

[Soapy Sam]

You can go to jail , too.

Why can't "masseurs" be proud to be "masseurs" and leave it at that?
Because they're scared people would get the wrong idea and think they are actually craniosacral therapists?

 

[Sarah-I]

Well, I am a Craniosacral Therapist and I am proud to say that I am and that I practice it.

The Upledger Institute is in Florida and runs courses worldwide, so of course the American Osteopathic Association is not going to do anything about it. Dr John Upledger is a DO afterall.

As well as my training at a college in England, I have done a couple of the Upledger courses her in the UK. They are four day intensive courses for healthcare professionals and are extremely well run. I intend to do more and will also be going out to Florida to work at the Healthplex there to gain more clinical experience.

So all in all, I gain great satisfaction from my work as a craniosacral therapist.

 

[Psiload]

Well, I am a Craniosacral Therapist and I am proud to say that I am and that I practice it.

The Upledger Institute is in Florida and runs courses worldwide, so of course the American Osteopathic Association is not going to do anything about it. Dr John Upledger is a DO afterall.

As well as my training at a college in England, I have done a couple of the Upledger courses her in the UK. They are four day intensive courses for healthcare professionals and are extremely well run. I intend to do more and will also be going out to Florida to work at the Healthplex there to gain more clinical experience.

So all in all, I gain great satisfaction from my work as a craniosacral therapist.

Do you use dolphin energy? Do you consult with people's inner physicians? Do you carry on conversations with their vital organs and immune cells?


http://www.massagetoday.com/archives/2003/04/10.html

I helped Kayla's body break down all those blocked areas. I don't remember if it was the second or third time I saw her, but it struck me that if I could talk to organs, why couldn't I talk to immune cells? I put my hand or her thymus (a gland in the upper chest and lower throat that's responsible for directing and producing immune cells) and said, "Thymus, will you talk with me?"

I said to Kayla, "Just let the voice of your thymus come through. Don't censor it or change it or feel obligated to answer. Just go with whatever comes." Immediately, "Yes" came through from the thymus.

I said, "Thymus, I think there are viruses hidden around in this body that are so clever, you might need my help to find them. Would you be willing to send a whole bunch of monocytes and macrophages (types of immune cells) to the places where I put my hand?"

"Yes."

 

[Mojo]

 

[Rolfe]

I intend to do more and will also be going out to Florida to work at the Healthplex there to gain more clinical experience.

So all in all, I gain great satisfaction from my work as a craniosacral therapist.

I'll just bet you do! Jollies to Florida, very nice! And no need to learn anything at all intellectually demanding, like actual anatomy.

Question is, do any of your <strike>marks</strike>, sorry, "patients" get any satisfaction?

Rolfe.

 

[Mercutio]

One of my first threads here (since culled) was on a news report of craniosacral therapy, done by the health-beat reporter for the local TV station. I emailed her with a critical review, supported by several links to medical studies (some as linked above in this thread)...and got back a very snitty reply.

One of my comments was that CST had never been successfully demonstrated in clinical double-blind trials. The reporter's retort: "but that's exactly what I did for the story!" Now...this was patently untrue. The doctor certainly knew what to expect, the reporter certainly knew what to expect, and when the former worked on the latter...surprise! They found what they expected to find.

Yesterday, in my "paranormal belief" class, I did a nice demonstration of "energy work" on a student. When I "pulled the energy down from her left side", that arm was significantly weaker, and could not resist my pushing down on it. It took my class a little bit of time, but not more than 5-10 minutes, to see why the demonstration was inadequate. Their revised experiment would have blinded the subject (whose expectations could lead her to weaken that arm through suggestion) and the demonstrator (who could consciously or unconsciously be pressing harder on that arm) to which arm had its energy "pulled down". When we deal with subjective reports, it is absolutely crucial to examine any claims in a double-blind fashion.

Sarah--in your training and experience, have you ever participated in a double-blind test of your abilities? If so, could you describe the methodology of that test and its results? If not, would you consider undergoing such a test? It would be the only real way to verify that you can, in fact, help people as you claim you can. Assuming that you genuinely wish to help people (and I have no reason to believe otherwise), you owe it to yourself and to your clients to ascertain whether you are able to actually do what you believe you are doing.

 

[richardm]

She doesn't need to do any double-blind testing to see if it really works, Merc, because she's had Profound Experiences.

Can't argue with facts like those.

 

[Mercutio]

She doesn't need to do any double-blind testing to see if it really works, Merc, because she's had Profound Experiences.

Can't argue with facts like those.

Ah, but she's not Iacchus. Some people who have Profound Experiences still wish to test them. I will not dispute that she had a Profound Experience--the question I have is, what is its explanation? Was it a demonstration of the effectiveness of a technique? Or was it a demonstration of the human Belief Engine at work? If she truly wishes to help people (again, I have no reason to believe otherwise at this point), that question is worth asking.

 

[Jas]

Do you use dolphin energy? Do you consult with people's inner physicians? Do you carry on conversations with their vital organs and immune cells?


http://www.massagetoday.com/archives/2003/04/10.html

Wow, that article is....I don't even have words.

And people don't believe me when I say that I can't seem to find a non-crazy masseuse.

How can people buy that?!?

 

[richardm]

Ah, but she's not Iacchus. Some people who have Profound Experiences still wish to test them. I will not dispute that she had a Profound Experience--the question I have is, what is its explanation? Was it a demonstration of the effectiveness of a technique? Or was it a demonstration of the human Belief Engine at work? If she truly wishes to help people (again, I have no reason to believe otherwise at this point), that question is worth asking.

I'm sure you're right, but I'm feeling uncharitable today

 

[anonimouse]

As well as my training at a college in England, I have done a couple of the Upledger courses her in the UK. They are four day intensive courses for healthcare professionals and are extremely well run. I intend to do more and will also be going out to Florida to work at the Healthplex there to gain more clinical experience.

Four days? Forget sending my kids to medical school, I'm going to send them to craniosacral therapy school. Four days of training is a whole lot cheaper and I'd probably make a better return on my investment.

 

[Sarah-I]

All the Upledger courses are postgraduate courses. They are 4 day intensive courses for people who are already healthcare professionals, so that they have a thorough grasp of anatomy, physiology and pathology before the course. People without these qualifications would flouder otherwise as it is an indepth and intensive course.

I trained at a college in the UK for 2 years and have done the Upledger courses as extras.

Most craniosacral therapy courses in the UK are postgraduate courses. If applicants have never studied A, P and P before, then it is a requirement that they do so either before or at the time of starting the training, as you cannot practice cranioscral therapy effectively without this knowledge. Cranial A and P is also very important too.

Mercutio,

I would be quite happy to try and design and undertake double blind trials in craniosacral therapy, however, if you take a look at the published research that is out there already, I think you will find that Dr John Upledger has done a lot of this research himself with his other scientific colleagues.

 

[Rolfe]

if you take a look at the published research that is out there already, I think you will find that Dr John Upledger has done a lot of this research himself with his other scientific colleagues.

Why is it that you always want other people to go and find the articles you "think" are out there to support your point of view? If you're studying this stuff, you ought to know where these articles are and be able to cite them. Unless of course they don't exist, and as you said you only "think" they do.

If you're learning so much about anatomy, how about explaining to us about the structure and flexibility of the sutures in the skull?

Rolfe.

 

[Psiload]

Originally posted by Sarah-I All the Upledger courses are postgraduate courses. They are 4 day intensive courses for people who are already healthcare professionals, so that they have a thorough grasp of anatomy, physiology and pathology before the course. People without these qualifications would flouder otherwise as it is an indepth and intensive course.

I trained at a college in the UK for 2 years and have done the Upledger courses as extras.

Most craniosacral therapy courses in the UK are postgraduate courses. If applicants have never studied A, P and P before, then it is a requirement that they do so either before or at the time of starting the training, as you cannot practice cranioscral therapy effectively without this knowledge. Cranial A and P is also very important too.

Mercutio,

I would be quite happy to try and design and undertake double blind trials in craniosacral therapy, however, if you take a look at the published research that is out there already, I think you will find that Dr John Upledger has done a lot of this research himself with his other scientific colleagues. [/B]

You need a thorough grasp of anatomy, physiology and pathology in order to learn SCT? Is that so?

Funny... I see two inexscusable errors of ignorance in this article alone:

http://www.massagetoday.com/archives/2003/04/10.html

1.

I said, "Thymus, I think there are viruses hidden around in this body that are so clever, you might need my help to find them. Would you be willing to send a whole bunch of monocytes and macrophages (types of immune cells) to the places where I put my hand?"

Monocytes are produced in the bone marrow and circulated in the blood. They are not "sent" anywhere by the thymus... even if you ask, "Pretty please, thymus, with sugar on top." Macrophages are just monocytes that have left the cirulation and entered tissue... they are essentially the same cells, they are not unique cells produced, and/or controlled, by the thymus as "Dr." Upledger seems to believe.

2.

Kayla performed did this self-treatment twice a week for several months; she's doing quite well. She also showed a friend whose mother had CMV (cytomegalovirus) how to do it. Normally, the prognosis for that condition is poor.

The prognosis for CMV is not poor. This is statement of basic medical ignorance.

http://www.astdhpphe.org/infect/cytomegalo.html

Although CMV infection is usually harmless, it can cause severe disease in persons with weakened immune systems

Forget the fact that the man thinks he's carrying on conversations with bodily organs... beyond that we have two blatant examples of basic medical ignorance in one short article. I am not impressed.

 

[Psiload]

Why is it that you always want other people to go and find the articles you "think" are out there to support your point of view? If you're studying this stuff, you ought to know where these articles are and be able to cite them. Unless of course they don't exist, and as you said you only "think" they do.

If you're learning so much about anatomy, how about explaining to us about the structure and flexibility of the sutures in the skull?

Rolfe.

"Dr." Upledger's research seems to have been either self-published, or published in a single journal, The Journal of the American Osteopathic Association. The most recent having been published over twenty years ago:


Upledger, John E., The Reproducibility Of Craniosacral Examination Findings: A Statistical Analysis, Journal of the American Osteopathic Association, 76:890-9, 1977.

Upledger, John E., Relationship Of Craniosacral Examination Findings In Grade School Children With Developmental Problems, Journal of the American Osteopathic Association, 77:760-76, 1978.

Upledger, John E., Mechano-Electric Patterns During Craniosacral Osteopathic Diagnosis And Treatment, Journal of the American Osteopathic Association, 1979.

Upledger, John E. and Jon Vredevoogd, CranioSacral Therapy, Eastland Press, Seattle, Calif., 1983.

Upledger, John E., Craniosacral Therapy II: Beyond The Dura, Eastland Press, Seattle, Calif., 1987.

Upledger, John E., SomatoEmotional Release And Beyond, UI Publishing, Palm Beach Gardens, Fla., and North Atlantic Press, Berkeley, Calif., 1990.
Woods, J.M., and R.H. Woods, Physical Findings Related To Psychiatric Disorders, Journal of the American Osteopathic Association, 60:988-93, Aug. 1961. John Upledger, DO, OMM
Palm Beach Gardens, Florida


Some of his research findings(dealing with the reproducibility of CST examination)have been directly contradicted in more recent studies:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/...9302&query_hl=5

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/...6622&query_hl=7

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/...0842&query_hl=7

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/...867&query_hl=10

Thank you to ThirdTwin for the references.

edited to add:

I just found this:

http://www.jaoa.org/cgi/search?pubd...levance&sortspecbrief=relevance&sendit=Search

A list of the articles published in The Journal of the American Osteopathic Association searched using the keyword "Upledger". Check out this one in particluar:

DG McConnell, MC Beal, U Dinnar, JP Goodridge, WL Johnston, Z Karni, JE Upledger, and G Blum

Low agreement of findings in neuromusculoskeletal examinations by a group of osteopathic physicians using their own procedures
J Am Osteopath Assoc, Mar 1980; 79: 441.

Hmmmmmm... I wonder why "Dr." Upledger didn't include a reference to this particular study on the list he provided above?

He musta just plum forgot about that one.

 

[Chris Haynes]

...I would be quite happy to try and design and undertake double blind trials in craniosacral therapy, however, if you take a look at the published research that is out there already, I think you will find that Dr John Upledger has done a lot of this research himself with his other scientific colleagues.

Here is a study that you might try reading:
http://www.chspr.ubc.ca/bcohta/pdf/bco99-01J_cranio.pdf

 

[Chris Haynes]

Double trouble, boil and bubble... double post!

 

[Sarah-I]

Psiload,

The reference that you posted has nothing whatsoever to do with craniosacral therapy as far as I can see. However, it is not possible to view an abstract, so it is impossible to see.

 

[Psiload]

Psiload,

The reference that you posted has nothing whatsoever to do with craniosacral therapy as far as I can see. However, it is not possible to view an abstract, so it is impossible to see.

True... maybe it concerns one of the host of other fairytale "treatments" that "Dr." Upledger practices... dolphin therapy, past life regression, channeling, SomatoEmotional Release, cellular "dialoging", lymph drainage, etc...

The point, as can be infered from the title of the reference, is that whatever specific "therapy" is involved, "Dr." Upledger can find scant corroboration for his claims... even among his own peers.

While I have your attention, care to comment on this?

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/t...1/103-2346956-7789431?_encoding=UTF8&v=glance

Cell Talk: Talking to Your Cell(F)


Osteopath and teacher John Upledger -- a pioneer of craniosacral therapy -- believes bodily tissues have individual memory and that traumatic memories can be stored in the body and disrupt bodily function. In Cell Talk, he shows how to treat disease and dysfunction at the cellular level by uncovering these memories and following the healing path they suggest. Anecdotes from Upledger's life and practice support his goal of facilitating self-healing.

 

[Dr Adequate]

All the Upledger courses are postgraduate courses. They are 4 day intensive courses for people who are already healthcare professionals, so that they have a thorough grasp of anatomy, physiology and pathology before the course. People without these qualifications would flouder otherwise as it is an indepth and intensive course.

I trained at a college in the UK for 2 years and have done the Upledger courses as extras.

I wonder which "college" that would be, what the subject was, and why Sarah only remained two years when a degree course lasts three. I'd also like to know why no-one, not even in this intensive four-day course on craniosacral therapy, taught her that the cranium is not a bone in the foot.