Covid-19 and Politics

[Puppycow]

What's happening in Japan:
Tokyo’s rush back to business generating alarm at local levels (Asahi Shimbun)

Overall, Japan seems to be doing quite well compared to other countries, but as the government starts to reopen the economy, new infections continue to trend up. They were down to the low 2-digit levels in early June but 420 new cases were recorded yesterday. So about a 10-fold increase within a month.

 

[angrysoba]

What's happening in Japan:
Tokyo’s rush back to business generating alarm at local levels (Asahi Shimbun)

Overall, Japan seems to be doing quite well compared to other countries, but as the government starts to reopen the economy, new infections continue to trend up. They were down to the low 2-digit levels in early June but 420 new cases were recorded yesterday. So about a 10-fold increase within a month.

Yep. Most of it seems to be in the Tokyo/Kanto region, but Osaka has also seen the numbers rising (I think it was 30 new cases yesterday or the day before).

Generally people wear masks without being ordered to and have mostly seemed to abide by requests to stay home except where necessary.

That said, people are beginning to get bored and going out more than before to theme parks, karaoke, bars and restaurants etc...

There will no doubt have to be some kind of interventions to bring the numbers down again...

...the government's offer to pay for people to travel round the country seems to be the complete opposite of what they need to do.

 

[Rolfe]

I'd have no problem if wearing a mask was required, though.

Why aren't you wearing one anyway? It's attitudes like that that force legislation to happen,

 

[Samson]

Compulsion is critical.
Masks must be a huge statistical good.
I have never had one since the sanding machine in woodworking. It seemed obvious to me that issuing gloves and basic disposable masks as a prerequisite to entering supermarkets was common sense.

Better be lucky than smart as NZ was.

 

[angrysoba]

I think people are having a hard time socially distancing even outdoors. Previously when we tried to stay home and avoided crowds, that was easy. Now that people started doing some things normally and some sort of "activity" appears, they throw themselves into it fully, disregarding any virus. This aspect is not really much to do with our political views so much, more to do with your life situation. Old couples, such as me and the Mrs, have a slightly easier time keeping strangers off, and only acting with a small number of people.

Lonely old people seem to have it tough. Old lady at post office talked for minutes with clerk, haw hawing and making enormous clouds of virus, if she happened to be a carrier.

Have you changed your view on face masks? I seem to remember you saying they were ineffective.

 

[Squeegee Beckenheim]

Michael Gove has just said to Andrew Marr that the government will not make it mandatory to wear masks in shops, although he does encourage people to do so.

Yet more abdication of responsibility by this government.

 

[Darat]

Michael Gove has just said to Andrew Marr that the government will not make it mandatory to wear masks in shops, although he does encourage people to do so.

Yet more abdication of responsibility by this government.

How does he know what the polls will say tomorrow when Johnson gets into the office?

At the moment I bet the polls are showing pretty much 50/50 on Johnson's popularity increasing or decreasing if he makes it compulsory or not. Can't expect him to make a call when the polling and focus groups are so evenly tied!

 

[Andy_Ross]

If Michael Gove says face masks should not be mandatory in shops then face masks should be mandatory in shops
That's what's known as the "lying ****" rule.

 

[jimbob]

Compulsion is critical.
Masks must be a huge statistical good.
I have never had one since the sanding machine in woodworking. It seemed obvious to me that issuing gloves and basic disposable masks as a prerequisite to entering supermarkets was common sense.

Better be lucky than smart as NZ was.

I agree about masks, but am not convinced about gloves, as they might be worse than sanitised hands.

Yep. Most of it seems to be in the Tokyo/Kanto region, but Osaka has also seen the numbers rising (I think it was 30 new cases yesterday or the day before).

Generally people wear masks without being ordered to and have mostly seemed to abide by requests to stay home except where necessary.

That said, people are beginning to get bored and going out more than before to theme parks, karaoke, bars and restaurants etc...

There will no doubt have to be some kind of interventions to bring the numbers down again...

...the government's offer to pay for people to travel round the country seems to be the complete opposite of what they need to do.

Yes - a bad idea.

Here's my chart of the cases and deaths (7-day average, centred on the actual day, not lagging as in Excel's trendline) along with various dates of increasing and relaxing restrictions:

 

[zooterkin]

Why aren't you wearing one anyway? It's attitudes like that that force legislation to happen,

Because the scientific consensus appeared to be, and I'm not sure that it has changed, that it did not make a significant difference to the risk for the situations I'm in, nor does the government advice recommend it currently. The only shops I go to are large supermarkets, and I keep at least 2m from everybody else. I use the hand scanners, so I don't queue for the checkouts or deal with till operators.

8. Face coverings
You must wear a face covering at all times on public transport or when attending a hospital as a visitor or outpatient. Hospitals will be able to provide a face covering in emergencies. If you can, you should also wear a face covering in other enclosed public spaces where social distancing isn’t possible and where you will come into contact with people you do not normally meet

 

[Tero]

Have you changed your view on face masks? I seem to remember you saying they were ineffective.

I found a use for the masks (the wimpy kind, the n95 would have some use). When I find I am walking or bicycling to a smaller gathering I can't avoid, I put the mask on and avoid eye contact. This prevents strangers coming up to me and starting to talk. I also have a bandana around the neck at times, it's easier to pull up when I already have a bike helmet on.

 

[angrysoba]

I found a use for the masks (the wimpy kind, the n95 would have some use). When I find I am walking or bicycling to a smaller gathering I can't avoid, I put the mask on and avoid eye contact. This prevents strangers coming up to me and starting to talk.

Just out of interest, why does it prevent strangers talking to you?

Is this because they might come up to you and tell you to put on a mask?

OR

Because it is believed that people with masks on are sick?

I also have a bandana around the neck at times, it's easier to pull up when I already have a bike helmet on.

I get the impression you don't think masks are of any use at all.

 

[Tero]

Just out of interest, why does it prevent strangers talking to you?

Is this because they might come up to you and tell you to put on a mask?

OR

Because it is believed that people with masks on are sick?




I get the impression you don't think masks are of any use at all.

Only the n95 masks are of much use. I have 2. The rubber band came off the staple on the first one, so I sewed the two rubber bands on. i have worn it inside stores for 2 months.

My masked look outdoors is to make me look anonymous and to discourage contact. I am uninteresting.

 

[angrysoba]

Only the n95 masks are of much use.

What is your argument for this?

 

[zooterkin]

If this article detailing what happened when a pub customer tested positive is to be believed, the (non-NHS) Test and Trace service is a joke.

News of his positive result reached the co-owner of Vape Escape, Leanne Underhill, first. Underhill, 40, closed the bar straightaway. She made a series of desperate calls to Somerset County Council and the police before finally getting through to NHS Test and Trace. “They asked me what I had done and took my postcode – that was it. They didn’t take any other details,” she says, sitting at a table in her recently deep-cleaned bar. “We were essentially left to deal with it ourselves.”

That was her only interaction with the service, which is headed by the former TalkTalk chief executive and Tory peer Dido Harding. “My perception was that businesses keep all the contact details and then pass them on if there’s an outbreak,” says Underhill. “But that’s not what happened.”

Instead, Underhill and another member of staff spent Sunday contacting the 42 people who had been in the bar on Saturday. She even took it upon herself to examine CCTV to identify the people that had close contact with Wilson. “People were massively worried. We are a little town – we don’t expect these kinds of things to happen,” she says. No one advised her what to say to her anxious regulars.

Later that evening, Underhill drove three members of staff 23 miles to a testing facility in Taunton. She then carried out a deep clean of the premises, working through the night.

“NHS Test and Trace couldn’t even tell me if I needed to test the staff,” she says. All the tests, including hers, came back negative early on Monday.

 

[Trebuchet]

Only the n95 masks are of much use. I have 2. The rubber band came off the staple on the first one, so I sewed the two rubber bands on. i have worn it inside stores for 2 months.

My masked look outdoors is to make me look anonymous and to discourage contact. I am uninteresting.

What is your argument for this?

Only the N95 masks are of much use to protect you from others. Regular masks help protect others from you.

 

[Rolfe]

The local abuse of the man who tested positive is very depressing. That's going to make people hide away if they think they've got it, when we need everybody with any symptoms to come forward for a test.

 

[angrysoba]

Only the N95 masks are of much use to protect you from others. Regular masks help protect others from you.

Well that’s the bloody point isn’t it!

If everyone were wearing a mask, then everyone would be protected.

That’s the point of condoms as well. It’s not just so that the wearer can be protected but also to protect the person they are having sex with.

 

[Rolfe]

I've got a couple of old respirator masks that I've been wearing in shops. They're meant to be disposable but I've been reusing them. I think now I'll also wear a snood round my neck and pull it up over the mask when I go into a shop.

 

[Delphic Oracle]

If the mask uses an exhalation valve that is not filtered, you're being doubly selfish.

ETA: I have a full face shield respirator I pondered digging out a while back. It used an unfiltered valve, so I decided against it. Also I only have organic vapor cartridges (for tear gas) and not biologicals/HEPA.

I use one of the sport masks since it has a neck velcro strap to spare my ears. I find I have to head outside about once an hour to clear the moisture buildup off of the exhale filters and air it out.