Could Trump Reignite the Korean War?

[Belz...]

I despise Trump, but when you begin to support North Korea you have just lost me.

I'll have to echo TW's question. How was that a support for NK?

 

[blutoski]

I'll have to echo TW's question. How was that a support for NK?

If anything, Trump's Foreign Policy is more Pro-DPRK than predecessors, since containment is achieved through economic and diplomatic approaches, and he's gutting the State Department and scrapping international economic treaties.

Since military is not a 'real' option, he's proposing less pressure on DPRK than previous administrations.

 

[TraneWreck]

North Korea has threatened “catastrophic consequences” against the US, including a nuclear strike, as tensions continue to escalate at the North Korean border.

http://theslot.jezebel.com/north-korea-threatens-nuclear-strike-against-us-if-prov-1794219594

What is this ****, seriously? Why are we going down this path?

 

[mike81]

http://theslot.jezebel.com/north-korea-threatens-nuclear-strike-against-us-if-prov-1794219594

What is this ****, seriously? Why are we going down this path?

I've always thought the NK was nothing but talk. I hope that's all it is this time too, but I'm starting to worry a little.

Trump is no where near as smart as he thinks he is and very well could cause a major war. This is one of the very reasons Trump is not qualified to be president.

 

[dudalb]

http://theslot.jezebel.com/north-korea-threatens-nuclear-strike-against-us-if-prov-1794219594

What is this ****, seriously? Why are we going down this path?

North Korea makes threats like this all the time, regardless of who is in the White House.

 

[TraneWreck]

North Korea makes threats like this all the time, regardless of who is in the White House.

Usually our side isn't lobbing threats back.

I hope you're right. I just don't share your confidence.

 

[NoahFence]

North Korea makes threats like this all the time, regardless of who is in the White House.

When was the last time we had a leader that was every bit as loony as Kim?

Who exactly has North Korea hurt besides themselves anyway? Why are they a priority?

 

[Spindrift]

When was the last time we had a leader that was every bit as loony as Kim?

Back when his father, worlds best golfer, was still alive.

Who exactly has North Korea hurt besides themselves anyway? Why are they a priority?

Anyone who belongs to Club Nuclear gets priority.

 

[Toontown]

http://www.cnn.com/2017/04/10/politics/us-aircraft-carrier-korea/


"China understands how dangerous North Korea's nuclear program has become and agrees action must be taken to stop it, US Secretary of State Rex Tillerson said Sunday, as the US sent an aircraft carrier strike group toward the Korean Peninsula.

"I think even China is beginning to recognize that this presents a threat to even China's interests," Tillerson said during an interview on CBS' "Face the Nation" program Sunday."

If it is true that the scales are falling from Chinese eyes, then perhaps NK should be more concerned about the 150,000 Chinese troops on NK's northern border, reportedly including a heavy mechanized army group and a rapid strike force.

I don't think NK is in imminent danger of combined attack from China, South Korea, and the U.S., but there could be a pointed message imbedded in all this massing of military force around NK.

 

[NoahFence]

Anyone who belongs to Club Nuclear gets priority.

Like Britian, China, India?

 

[Spindrift]

Like Britian, China, India?

Anyone, if they make noise that they might use their nukes.

 

[blutoski]

When was the last time we had a leader that was every bit as loony as Kim?

Who exactly has North Korea hurt besides themselves anyway? Why are they a priority?

I don't know about 'priority,' but their impact extends beyond their borders.
Counterfeiting foreign currency, for example.

 

[Toontown]

Well, hopefully not.

Their strategy seems to be deterrent rather than aggressive.

A pre-emptive action from a foreign aggressor such as the USA would be the only scenario where they're actually used.

Your soothing assurances flatly contradict the attempted and announced intentions of the NK leadership.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-31001251

'The big prize: reunification': Supporter Kim Myong Chol

Kim Myong Chol was born and lives in Japan, but is ethnically Korean.
He has been to North Korea more than 20 times in the last 40 years, and says he has met representatives of the country's elite as well as, in his words, the two Kims - Kim Jong-un's father and grandfather. He hasn't met the third Kim yet, but praises his "guts, determination and intelligence".

Some describe Kim Myong Chol as an unofficial spokesman for the leader.

"What makes him different from the two Kims," he argues, "is that he will succeed in getting what he wants. The reunification of Korea, without foreign interference. Eventually the US will leave Korea and the Korean peninsula will be re-unified.

"[The US will] realise the futility, the senselessness of American military presence in Korea. North Korea [will] become too strong for America. We have now nuclear weapons, we have intercontinental ballistic missiles, we have hydrogen bomb.

"We are victims of American aggression. North Korea is a most sanctioned country. Brutalised, criminalised, isolated by America."


Note the trademark hypocrisy. In one breath he speaks hungrily of swallowing and digesting the peaceful, democratic SK, as it tried to do in 1950. Then, in the next breath, he portrays NK as the victim of aggression.

The usefulness of a "deterrent" nuclear arsenal in the accomplishment of the often-stated goal of swallowing and digesting SK should be obvious.

 

[NoahFence]

Anyone, if they make noise that they might use their nukes.

I need to know exactly what they have done to incur the wrath of America.
It's got to be more than just posturing. We are the aggressors here.

 

[Darth Rotor]

(Can any navy folk tell me how close that guess was? 30,000 for 3 battle groups?)

Not that close and not that far.

A carrier has (with an embarked air wing) about 5500 people. Nowadays, the battle groups are not that big. Five escorts @ ~ 350 per is another 1650ish, add an oiler/stores ship another 4-500 gives you 7500ish ... so 22,000+ if you have three battle groups.
But "battle group" is a notional quantity. The number of ships expands or contracts based on the mission. In a serious case of shooting, the 30,000 figure isn't that bad of a guess.

 

[Roger Ramjets]

Jong-un is clearly a madman,

Evidence?

 

[TraneWreck]

Evidence?

Uh...

He had his ex girlfriend and a bunch of pop singers executed for violating pornography laws:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...ng-uns-ex-lover-executed-by-firing-squad.html

Executed his education minister for not sitting properly:

https://www.theatlantic.com/news/archive/2016/08/another-government-execution-in-north-korea/498149/

Executions are evidently a constant.

Let's not forget his dad invented the cheeseburger. He wanted to raise giant rabbits to end the famine, so he bought 6 from a seller. Before the seller could get to NK to teach them how to breed the rabbits, Jong-il had eaten all 6 of them.

Jong-un jailed an official for not sufficiently grieving at his father's funeral.

He expresses all the classic murderous paranoia of the worst dictators. I mean, what are you looking for?

Hell, thinking it's a good idea to antagonize the most powerful military in the history of the planet is pretty nuts. He's just relying on the (previously safe) bet that we care more about lives in South Korea than we're interested in shutting him up.

 

[John Jones]

Yeah, I really don't think there is any reason to believe that Kim is crazy. He's evil sure, but his goal is to stay in power not commit suicide by nuking America. He wants nukes for the same reason every other country that has them does: as a deterrent.

Wow. I can't wait to see how your viewpoint and the actual situation will develop alongside each other.

 

[Darth Rotor]

Wow. I can't wait to see how your viewpoint and the actual situation will develop alongside each other.

Actually, I think Tony's on to something. The aim of the Kims is, and has always been, to stay in power. I offer you a link by someone a bit brighter than I who explains it very well. Go here and scroll down to the longish post that a fella called John Schilling makes: it begins like this.

John Schilling says:
April 2, 2017 at 10:10 pm ~new~ (snip)

I have often referred to North Korea’s nukes as the House Kim family atomics, and I’m not joking. The North Korean regime has made it abundantly clear, in its words and its actions, that their absolute number one priority is the preservation of the present regime and its uncontested rule over North Korea. If you expect them to step down from power, adopt democratic rule and stand for election, be deposed in a popular revolt or military coup, or anything along those lines, that will happen over their dead bodies, and if at all possible yours as well. Hence the nuclear missiles.

If you’re wondering whether House Kim cares about anything at all beyond the survival of House Kim, then yes, they do. They are intensely and I believe sincerely nationalistic Koreans, which means that beyond survival their priorities are, 2: maintain the absolute territorial integrity and political and economic independence of North Korea, 3: ensure that North Korea is recognized as a great regional power at least equal to South Korea or Japan, 4: provide wealth and prosperity to the North Korean people, and 5: arrange the reunification of North and South Korea under the Kim regime.

The rest of the article is pretty good, I'd recommend the whole post as a nice read on the topic.

 

[jimbob]

Actually, I think Tony's on to something. The aim of the Kims is, and has always been, to stay in power. I offer you a link by someone a bit brighter than I who explains it very well. Go here and scroll down to the longish post that a fella called John Schilling makes: it begins like this.


The rest of the article is pretty good, I'd recommend th whole post as a nice read on the topic.

I tend to agree - Kim Jong-un is only alive as long as he's in power, he can't step down and survive unless he has a *very* carefully-chosen successor. In that case, revenge against the rest of the world might seem attractive.