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Ed Corona Virus Conspiracy Theories....

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There certainly is disagreement basically on anything among doctors, virologist and everybody. People are then left confused. At least the news should put opposing camps together, so they can argue, and not 2 guys who agree on everything, making it seems it's something more than just personal speculation.
It can still be 100% fake. The most common CT format is 1 expert, 1 host. 2 are actually pretty smart, it certainly feels more authentic. If it's not fake news, fake news should learn.
 
mike81 said:
How about this?

Dr. David Katz on Real Time with Bill Maher

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lze-rMYLf2E

Dr Katz says the mortality rate is about .5% in NY. So we are shutting down for something that only kills about .5%.

We flattened the curve or are close to doing it. Flattening the curve still means that the same number or about the same number will get it and/or die from it. It just spreads it out over a longer period of time. We can't just wait on a cure/vaccine. We have to start getting back to normal.

People die everyday from horrible viruses. More than some realize. We just don't get it shoved in our face everyday by the media.
Click to expand...

I think a focus on death toll, especicially based on snapshots in time and demographics which will neccessarily be incomplete, are feeding some pushes for poor decisions.

Early on, the message that this virus "only" kills X% of people who get it, or that it "only" kills seniors or people with preexisting conditions has led to a framing comparing the death toll to other causes of death and concluding that we can't close down the economy because it's not the single largest cause of death ever.

But focusing on deaths so far, or even just only looking at direct deaths is a very incomplete framing of the risks here. And using those tunnel vision numbers to make comparisons to the flu or other diseases, is misleading and missing the point.

This is a novel virus. We don't yet really know what the long or even medium term health issues are. People who don't die still come out of it with serious damage to their heart lungs and even brain.

The flu only mutates so much each year and it's been around for about a century. A substantial chunk of our population has previous antibodies. And a substantial amount receive a vaccine which helps too. Even then, as you observe, tens of thousands die. This disease is a novel form of coronavirus, so no one has antibodies, no one is vaccinated. The deaths so far are comparable to the highest yearly deaths from the flu and it's really only been here a month. The death rate is one thing, but the death rate is only a multiplier we can apply to transmission. This disease appears far more transmissable than the yearly flu. So while the death rate may be "only" something like 4 or 5 times as bad as the flu, the infection rate would be higher, much higher. Estimates have been that even with distancing but without vaccine, 80% of America may contract it. About 15% of the US contracts the seasonal flu over the course of a year. So while the numbers are sort of rough, you can see a much greater risk.

But again, that's still looking at direct deaths. You mention flattening the curve. That's not something we can declare victory and be done with as soon as it starts to flatten. That's something that needs to be sustained. It's still too early to have a particularly reliable hospitalization rate data for Covid-19, but that's in some ways a bigger concern than the death rate. If our hospitals are overrun, then the death rate spikes because our current death rate is kept low through medical intervention. When our health resources are maxed out, that intervention is not available. It happened in Italy. Not just that, but if our hospitals are overflowing with covid patients, then people with every other disease have a number of serious problems. These are those "pre-existing conditions". They can catch Covid in the hospitals, they can forgo needed medical care to avoid hospitals and die at home or deal with lifetime medical issues, they can try to go to a hospital and find their needed resources, beds, equipment, drugs, doctor time, unavailable because of the glut of covid patients.

The actual death (and health) toll of allowing this disease to spread quickly by releasing restrictions would go far beyond the death rate number comparison so many anti-lockdown folks are working from.
 
Gorgonian said:
Debunking of the video in question:

https://thelogicofscience.com/2020/...dangerously-misled-the-public-on-coronavirus/
Click to expand...

Nicely done ! I must admit I haven't watched the whole video. I thought it has the usual about how it's like flu etc. But it supposedly has this sentence:

We’re not wearing masks. Why is that? Because we understand microbiology, we understand immunology, and we want strong immune systems.

That's Trump level of ignorance. And these guys are supposed to be US doctors ? I so hope it's completely fake piece.

:jaw-dropp
 
Giordano said:
Bubba,

Interesting. The only link that the AYTU website cites as describing Dr Pimentel’s work on Coronavirus in more detail is blocked by my browser as a known malware distributor.

Also still silence from Dr Pimental’s end: nothing about Coronavirus on his websites or in a Google search.

BTW he appears to be a successful established researcher on irritable bowel syndrome and gut bacteria. I really wonder about the details of his relationship with AYTU: if he decided to quietly try a flier on Coronavirus (legitimate) and the company might be trying to exploit his very preliminary studies for obvious commercial gain. All IMHO of course.
Click to expand...


Interesting.

It crossed my mind that the entire AYTU thing could be a paper thin scam on investors (see AYTU stock)....but I'd expect that Cedars-Sinai would have exposed that by now because their name is on it.

I still think the big parallel story is the MSM not AFAIK doing what Lou Dobbs did on Fox,
(he showed the AYTU material on 'injectable disinfectant')
...or even responding to Dobbs ie the MSM is in Big Pharmas pocket as usual. Follow the money.

Birx and Fauci are whores for Big Pharma and W.H.O. Look up PEPFAR
....or let Polly explain it. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AkU_m5lpVMc

No money for big Pharma in UV Light and H-chloroquin.


Lou Dobbs = good old fashion journalist who mixes truth, morality and a sense of fairness in reporting and interviews.

Dobbs:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FTSOMqq-sSc
 
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Bubba, your narrative over the last few days has been somewhat confused. No doubt this is due to your slavish attempts to cover for the orange nincompoop you serve, but, for the record, can you at least try to clarify what you think Trump is doing.
This is the story, as set out by you and your master, so far:
Trump said that disinfectant could be injected to treat coronavirus.
After worldwide mockery, you told us that Trump was actually recommending a treatment made by AYTU.
Trump then said he was being 'very, very sarcastic' with his comments, which presumably means he wasn't recommending this treatment at all.
You ignored that, and continued to insist that this therapy was what he was talking about.
Then it surfaced that the therapy is unproven, and the link to the doctor's website is a known malware provider.
You then claimed that, in fact, Trump had 'set a trap' from the media, to fool them into thinking he was talking about injecting proprietary disinfectant, when in fact he was talking about using an unproven treatment he apparently couldn't name or describe.
Then the story changed again, as you claimed you suspected all along that the therapy was unproven, possibly a scam, and accepted the malware distribution as fact, whilst completely ignoring Trump's own explanation of what he had said.
To sum up, then:
Trump wanted to fool the media into thinking he was recommending injecting proprietary disinfectant, when in fact he was recommending an unproven therapy that is quite possibly a scam, although at the same time he was being sarcastic and not actually recommending anything, as a way to 'trap' the media into some unspecified trouble, for Trump's own personal gratification.
Is that about right?
Can I also point out the utter ridiculousness of this, even if what you claim is true? At a time when a million Americans have coronavirus and tens of thousands are dying, all Trump can do is play silly games with journalists.
Do you see any other world leader doing anything like this? Does he really care so little about what's happening that he spends his time trying to trick journalists?
What a complete tool.
 
Cosmic Yak said:
Bubba, your narrative over the last few days has been somewhat confused. No doubt this is due to your slavish attempts to cover for the orange nincompoop you serve, but, for the record, can you at least try to clarify what you think Trump is doing.
This is the story, as set out by you and your master, so far:
Trump said that disinfectant could be injected to treat coronavirus.
After worldwide mockery, you told us that Trump was actually recommending a treatment made by AYTU.
Trump then said he was being 'very, very sarcastic' with his comments, which presumably means he wasn't recommending this treatment at all.
You ignored that, and continued to insist that this therapy was what he was talking about.
Then it surfaced that the therapy is unproven, and the link to the doctor's website is a known malware provider.
You then claimed that, in fact, Trump had 'set a trap' from the media, to fool them into thinking he was talking about injecting proprietary disinfectant, when in fact he was talking about using an unproven treatment he apparently couldn't name or describe.
Then the story changed again, as you claimed you suspected all along that the therapy was unproven, possibly a scam, and accepted the malware distribution as fact, whilst completely ignoring Trump's own explanation of what he had said.
To sum up, then:
Trump wanted to fool the media into thinking he was recommending injecting proprietary disinfectant, when in fact he was recommending an unproven therapy that is quite possibly a scam, although at the same time he was being sarcastic and not actually recommending anything, as a way to 'trap' the media into some unspecified trouble, for Trump's own personal gratification.
Is that about right?
Can I also point out the utter ridiculousness of this, even if what you claim is true? At a time when a million Americans have coronavirus and tens of thousands are dying, all Trump can do is play silly games with journalists.
Do you see any other world leader doing anything like this? Does he really care so little about what's happening that he spends his time trying to trick journalists?
What a complete tool.
Click to expand...
Just a tiny clarification: I don’t know were the the AYTU link goes it. The doctor himself seems pretty above board from what I can tell.
 
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2 doctors video made it to Czech Republic. From my friends, who are all college educated and I take them as smart, All but 1 take it as truth. It's all just a flu ! Government is trying to opress us. Youtube is bad for taking it down.
I link the debunking article, I was asked if I'm a doctor. Frustrating ..
 
Cosmic Yak said:
Bubba, your narrative over the last few days has been somewhat confused. No doubt this is due to your slavish attempts to cover for the orange nincompoop you serve, but, for the record, can you at least try to clarify what you think Trump is doing.
This is the story, as set out by you and your master, so far:
Trump said that disinfectant could be injected to treat coronavirus.
After worldwide mockery, you told us that Trump was actually recommending a treatment made by AYTU.
Trump then said he was being 'very, very sarcastic' with his comments, which presumably means he wasn't recommending this treatment at all.
You ignored that, and continued to insist that this therapy was what he was talking about.
Then it surfaced that the therapy is unproven, and the link to the doctor's website is a known malware provider.
You then claimed that, in fact, Trump had 'set a trap' from the media, to fool them into thinking he was talking about injecting proprietary disinfectant, when in fact he was talking about using an unproven treatment he apparently couldn't name or describe.
Then the story changed again, as you claimed you suspected all along that the therapy was unproven, possibly a scam, and accepted the malware distribution as fact, whilst completely ignoring Trump's own explanation of what he had said.
To sum up, then:
Trump wanted to fool the media into thinking he was recommending injecting proprietary disinfectant, when in fact he was recommending an unproven therapy that is quite possibly a scam, although at the same time he was being sarcastic and not actually recommending anything, as a way to 'trap' the media into some unspecified trouble, for Trump's own personal gratification.
Is that about right?
Can I also point out the utter ridiculousness of this, even if what you claim is true? At a time when a million Americans have coronavirus and tens of thousands are dying, all Trump can do is play silly games with journalists.
Do you see any other world leader doing anything like this? Does he really care so little about what's happening that he spends his time trying to trick journalists?
What a complete tool.
Click to expand...

To most of us its sound utterly ridiculous but to some it's a way to pretend they have control/understand what is going on in the world.
 
If Bubba is correct (OK, bear with me for a moment! :D ), and Trump really was laying a trap for the media, then I can only see two possible consequences of this:
1. No-one in the media will trust anything the President says in an official White House press conference, in case it's another trap. This might rather undermine the credibility of the entire office of the Presidency.
2. The media, suitably chastened, will passively accept everything said by the government, at a government press conference, as completely true. This might rather undermine a key foundation of a functioning democracy.

Bubba, can I ask you which of these you think is what Trump intended to achieve?

It absolutely baffles me, by the way, that, in a time when clear, useful and supportive messages from our leaders are of such vital importance, Trump decides instead - if Bubba is to be believed- to dick about pursuing his personal feud with the media.
And to be supported in this by Bubba, and, according to the polls, some 43% of Americans generally, as well. Unbelievable. :mad:
 
Cosmic Yak said:
If Bubba is correct (OK, bear with me for a moment! :D ), and Trump really was laying a trap for the media, then I can only see two possible consequences of this:
1. No-one in the media will trust anything the President says in an official White House press conference, in case it's another trap. This might rather undermine the credibility of the entire office of the Presidency.
2. The media, suitably chastened, will passively accept everything said by the government, at a government press conference, as completely true. This might rather undermine a key foundation of a functioning democracy.

Bubba, can I ask you which of these you think is what Trump intended to achieve?

It absolutely baffles me, by the way, that, in a time when clear, useful and supportive messages from our leaders are of such vital importance, Trump decides instead - if Bubba is to be believed- to dick about pursuing his personal feud with the media.
And to be supported in this by Bubba, and, according to the polls, some 43% of Americans generally, as well. Unbelievable. :mad:
Click to expand...

No,no it was way more complex and only a genius like Trump can understand his multi-layers attack on the utter evil that surrounds us.

Its all part of an intricate plan so daring, so outstanding, that it will completely shock the world and make Trump President of the world for life. Unfortunately it involves replacing Congress and all major governmental functions with squirrels, over shelf-life cottage cheese and spoiled rutabaga.
 
Giordano said:
Just a tiny clarification: I don’t know were the the AYTU link goes it. The doctor himself seems pretty above board from what I can tell.
Click to expand...


And apparently Cedars-Sinai is not reported to be suing anyone for using their name on the material.


Plus the shittspin seen here is not worth unpacking.

Its almost as if they overlooked the word 'study' so they can pretend the Cedars-Sinai/AYTU study is touted as proven.

I have added 'unproven' or 'yet to be proven' (bolded) elsewhere, dont know if I did that here. You'd think the word 'study' would have been sufficient.

But Nooooo. Liars.
 
Not only do these new therapies need to work, they need to work as effectively as existing therapies and/or with less detrimental impact on the patient.

The bar for success is not "it exists," the bar is "it is superior to what we already have."
 
Trump has been in a mostly hidden war for 3+ years. He knows what and who is attacking him. Hence he was shrewdly cagey in vaguely pointing to the "Cedar-Sinai UV Injectable Disinfectant potential for coronavirus study"

Lysol? Sure, in a pigs ass it was about Lysol. It was about no big money for big pharma in UV or in Hchloraqn. Proof being not a peep from pet media yet, about the UV study potential. Business as usual, suppressing the competition. Complicit MSM. Why havent they mentioned it? So far only Lou Dobbs exposed the MSM fraud by running the Cedars-Sinai UV study material on Fox.

Surely by now Trump knows about the doctors complaining about being told to presume deaths are due to covid. Exposing the enemy of the people at this point doesnt hurt response to covid.
 
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