Corn Syrup vs. Cane/Beet Sugar

[Prometheus]

Why don't soft drink companies sell unsweetened syrup, and just let customers add seltzer and their own favorite sweetener?

 

[dropzone]

My people call that Kool-Aid. It sucks because the Cola and Root Beer flavors no longer exist, if my memory is not failing me and they once did exist.

 

[Axiom_Blade]

My people call that Kool-Aid.

Er...I guess you could make Kool-Aid with seltzer water. I think it would taste like some super-cheap ghetto soda. I haven't tried it.

It sucks because the Cola and Root Beer flavors no longer exist, if my memory is not failing me and they once did exist.

Actually, they did. *shudder*
Cola is available in Mexico. Root beer was around back in the 50s. At least, that's what the almighty Google reveals.

Much better for soda-making are the Torani syrups, which come in a bajillion flavors. I also remember a caffeine-infused syrup sold by ThinkGeek, but they don't have it anymore.

 

[JJM]

Really? Enlighten me, then.

What are the differences in composition between the two chemicals I have named (2-methyl-butane and 2,2-dimethyl-propane)? Since they're both alkanes, {snip}

Really, JJM. It really says something pathetic when I, a complete non-specialist, have a better understanding of isomers than you do.[italics added]

So, are you enlightened now? Did you get a high-school text (as I suggested) and learn how you are wrong about fructose/glucose isomers?

Do you know what "pathetic" means? You use that word; but I don't think you know what it means ... It could refer to a sophomore- a "wise fool" a complete non-specialist who, nonetheless, blathers on.

Don't worry, in the past you have blustered and then gone silent when your position was shown to be untenable. As I have said- in school I learned not to expound on subjects I didn't understand in the first place. That could be a valuable lesson for you.

 

[Madalch]

And I notice I burp after eating di-glycerides. Seems the enzymes that break down the sugars are in saliva, and start working in your mouth. Definitely working in you stomach, where the gaseous hydrogen and oxygen come out. So you burp.

Nope. The first step in the digestion of disaccharides (which is what I assume you meant) would be the hydrolysis to monosaccharides. Water plus sucrose --> fructose plus glucose. No hydrogen or oxygen gas is produced (if you were producing both of those gases in your stomach by some miracle, better quite smoking before you do an imitation of a huge manatee).

A diglyceride is a partially hydrolyzed fat, consisting of a molecule of glycerine with two of its hydroxyl groups esterified with long-chain fatty acids.

 

[Madalch]

Really? Enlighten me, then.

What are the differences in composition between the two chemicals I have named (2-methyl-butane and 2,2-dimethyl-propane)? Since they're both alkanes, you can even use ASCII art to show their structures, if necessary.

What are their respective boiling and melting points?

I could also add n-pentane into the list as well.

Really, JJM. It really says something pathetic when I, a complete non-specialist, have a better understanding of isomers than you do.

Guys, guys...relax.

Yes, isomers are different compounds. 2-Methylbutane and pentane are different compounds with different properties. So are glucose and fructose.

However, converting one alkane to another requires breaking very strong carbon-carbon and carbon-hydrogen bonds. Ain't gonna happen under conditions that don't rip the molecules into lots of other things.

Converting glucose to fructose (or vice-versa) simply requires breaking and reforming oxygen-hydrogen bonds, which is easy. Happens all the time under physiological conditions, especially where digestive enzymes are working. You can do it in plain water with hydrochloric acid as a catalyst, even without the enzymes.

 

[balrog666]

Balrog, that's a really silly statement. If they really wanted to tout domestic sugar growers, then they wouldn't be using any HFCS in the US at all. The corn industry has enjoyed a $40 billion subsidy since 1990, while the real cane producers are/were in Cuba. That is why HFCS is big.



Most of the beet producers, in the mid-west, went out of business 30 years ago. Piles of sugar beets at processing plants along US-85 between Denver and Greeley were huge, but the plants are all rusting derelicts now.

More about it's chemistry and real effects:

One of the points not made here is that fructose tastes about twice as sweet as sucrose (table sugar) itself does, and perhaps 8 times sweeter than pure glucose (blood sugar, the basic aerobic fuel). HFCS 55 is 55% fructose in pure corn syrup (and considered to be equivalent by weight with table sugar in sweetness), which is 100% glucose; this is why pure Karo pure corn syrup is not terribly sweet. They also make HFCS 20 and HFCS 90.



I have little doubt that that is exactly what the cane sugar industry wants and paid good money for you to hear.

Bwaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahahahaha! Check the prices on sugar in Central America and why our Congress has imposed limits on its importation.

Without such "protection", there would be no domestic sugar industry at all and we would all enjoy lower sugar prices from a wide variety of external sources that don't spend hundred of thousands of dollars every year to bribe Congress and the political parties. Gosh, why do those domestic producers do that unless it is economically useful?

 

[CelticRose]

In Phoenix, Costco sells "Mexican Coca Cola," which uses sugar. It tastes so much better to me, but it's about $1 per 12 ounce glass bottle when bought in a case. At least I think that's what it works out to. Whatever it is exactly, it is definitely more expensive and harder to get.

The better taste may, at least in part, be due to the glass bottles it's packaged in.

Back when there was still a choice between soda in a plastic bottle or in a glass bottle, I would always buy the glass bottle because I thought it tasted better. I still think that soda tastes better out of a can than out of a plastic bottle.

It would be interesting to do a double blind taste test of American Coke in a glass bottle versus Mexican Coke in a glass bottle.

 

[BenBurch]

I have now tried both Pepsi and Pepsi throwback, and I CAN tell the difference and I like the cane sugar version better.

But I'll stick to drinking Tab as I have since about 1969...

 

[Uncayimmy]

The better taste may, at least in part, be due to the glass bottles it's packaged in.

Back when there was still a choice between soda in a plastic bottle or in a glass bottle, I would always buy the glass bottle because I thought it tasted better. I still think that soda tastes better out of a can than out of a plastic bottle.

It would be interesting to do a double blind taste test of American Coke in a glass bottle versus Mexican Coke in a glass bottle.

When I was in Hungary, I noticed the difference immediately in 2-liter bottles. I didn't know they used sugar until I had my first glass. It was an obvious difference.

I'm a long-time Coke drinker. Cans taste different than small plastic bottles which taste different than 2-liter which taste different from glass bottles which tastes different from fountain (all corn syrup). Mostly it's carbonation and strength.

Coke with sugar brings in a different element altogether.

 

[Timothy]

The better taste may, at least in part, be due to the glass bottles it's packaged in.

Back when there was still a choice between soda in a plastic bottle or in a glass bottle, I would always buy the glass bottle because I thought it tasted better. I still think that soda tastes better out of a can than out of a plastic bottle.

It would be interesting to do a double blind taste test of American Coke in a glass bottle versus Mexican Coke in a glass bottle.

Around Passover, local grocery stores often (but not always) carry kosher for Passover Coke in 2-liter plastic bottles. This is made with cane sugar rather than HFCS. It is easily distinguished by a yellow cap instead of the red cap. I also understand, but have no first-hand experience, that Pepsi similarly distinguishes their kosher for Passover product with a white rather than dark-blue cap. If you're unsure, look for the kosher for Passover "P" symbol, or read the ingredient label.

I rarely drink non-diet soda, but on the occasions where it's available will choose kosher Coke over regular Coke because I believe I can taste the difference (although I've never done a double blind test). I find HFCS sweetened drinks to have a noticeable unpleasant aftertaste. There is no price difference between kosher Coke and regular Coke where I am in Colorado.

Perhaps the next time I find it, I'll arrange a double blind test for my own edification.

 

[The Central Scrutinizer]

I just had a "throwback" Pepsi. Made with real sugar.

Sorry guys, no difference.

 

[casebro]

I'd like to know where I can buy corn syrup cheaper than sugar.

I guess it doesn't make it to retail without costing $6/lb.

 

[Ziggurat]

Of course, the simple solution here would be to consume sweet foods and drinks in moderation and exercise more, but this seems to be a task far beyond the means of many people.

Eat less, move more:

 

[Michael Redman]

Friends and I tried the blind taste test with the two Pepsi products. We felt we could tell a difference, but we didn't consistently favor one or the other.

 

[fuelair]

In Phoenix, Costco sells "Mexican Coca Cola," which uses sugar. It tastes so much better to me, but it's about $1 per 12 ounce glass bottle when bought in a case. At least I think that's what it works out to. Whatever it is exactly, it is definitely more expensive and harder to get.

Sam's Club in Orlando is app. 78 cents per bottle.

 

[fuelair]

My people call that Kool-Aid. It sucks because the Cola and Root Beer flavors no longer exist, if my memory is not failing me and they once did exist.

Root beer definitely - and not too great even in the golden days of youth. I'll accept Cola was, but if so either not in Nashville or bad enough I just forgot it.

 

[fuelair]

When I was in Hungary, I noticed the difference immediately in 2-liter bottles. I didn't know they used sugar until I had my first glass. It was an obvious difference.

I'm a long-time Coke drinker. Cans taste different than small plastic bottles which taste different than 2-liter which taste different from glass bottles which tastes different from fountain (all corn syrup). Mostly it's carbonation and strength.

Coke with sugar brings in a different element altogether.

On this we agree - I was not pointing it out because enough people here are sure there is no identifiable difference. Because I grew up on the 6.5 oz bottles, that IS coke flavor for me. The larger bottles were never quite as cokey, but no bottled could beat a properly set soda fountain coke. Cans were the dregs - just became way prevalent. If I could get the real Mexican syrup in bulk, I would buy a soda dispensing set up, put the ratio at 1 to 4 (coke syrup to CO2 water) and never worry about what to drink again. And I would share with friends and anyone who truly thought there was no difference. Oh, the Mexican is not perfect - it's not the 6.5oz. bottle ratio, but still.......

By the by, it is all carbonation - the more carbonated water, the less coke syrup. Last time I played with a fountain, the recommended dose was 5 co2 to 1 coke. A lot of fountains (McDonalds, etc.) seem to run 5.5-6 to one. Best old soda fountains were 4.5-4 to 1 and I am pretty sure the small bottles were 4.5 to 4.7 to 1. Oh, though not coke syrup, I have experimented on this with a number of syrups and soda water - I do not like pulling figures from out my butt - the edges and pointy parts would hurt.

 

[TheDaver]

Sorry for the slight hijack, but I’m wondering if an expert can tell me how HFCS compares to honey nutrition-wise. (My own amateur research suggests that it’s nearly identical.)

 

[Prometheus]

Sorry for the slight hijack, but I’m wondering if an expert can tell me how HFCS compares to honey nutrition-wise. (My own amateur research suggests that it’s nearly identical.)

There's no significant difference in nutrition between honey and HFCS. Honey has tiny amounts of a few nutrients and proteins which make it possible to detect the difference between the two.[/OT]


Has anyone here got a link to a published double blind taste test of HFCS vs. Cane Sugar. My searches turn up lot's of anecdotal allusions to such, and lot's of comments to the effect of, "the majority of double blind studies conclude that..," but I haven't found a single citation anywhere.