Merged Core-led collapse and explosive demolition

Clayton Moore said:
I've got something otherwise all of you "people" wouldn't be here swarming to get truthers to shut up.

911 truth would be the forever sweet spot story along with Area 51, MM and JFK for Globe Magazine, National Examiner Magazine, Sun Magazine, and
The National Enquirer Magazine.

And they don't print a word about it.
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It's entertainment for smart people.
 
Clayton Moore said:
I've got something otherwise all of you "people" wouldn't be here swarming to get truthers to shut up.
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You again get it wrong. We've been asking you (truthers) to come forward with your theory and proof. For most of you guy's (yourself included) not shutting up has been your down fall.


:rolleyes:
 
Clayton Moore said:
I've got something otherwise all of you "people" wouldn't be here swarming to get truthers to shut up.
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Please re-read the name of the website you're currently posting on: The James Randi Educational Foundation. It's got big letters at the top of the screen.

Do you know what educate means?
 
twinstead said:
See. This is all about ideology and world view for you, not about facts or logic. You think anybody who disagrees with you just HAS to be some right wing jingoist redneck who believes whatever the government tells him. In reality, of course, we run the gambit of political leanings, from deep left to deep right and everything inbetween. A simple trip to the politics sub forums would tell you that in an instant. We disagree with you because you have no compelling evidence to back up your beliefs; it's as simple as that.

But no, it's just easier for you to pretend that we're all "neocon lovers". LOL. Whatever makes you sleep at night.

What a joke.
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This accusation has always amused me too, especially since I've never voted for a republican in my life and was out protesting the Iraq invasion before it was launched (see photo).

An amusing example of this sort of idiocy was this comment (by "anonymous") left on my humble blog.

Hey Walter! If that is your name...

This site must be one of those carefully created institutions of "covering up the cover up". Well, I´m sorry to say that you NEO-conservative bastards are doing quite a good job so far. But in time this *** will go to history as the most awful doing ever made. Remember... that you traitors of mankind are growing fewer by the hour. Truth will be known!
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peace.jpg
 
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Walter Ego said:
This accusation has always amused me too, especially since I've never voted for a republican in my life and was out protesting the Iraq invasion before it was launched (see photo).

An amusing example of this sort of idiocy was this comment (by "anonymous") left on my humble blog.




[qimg]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v167/buddhaglass/peace.jpg[/qimg]
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Hippy.
 
Clayton Moore said:
Straight down, in a heap, pretty much in its own footprint.

That would fit the exactly statement. Unless you're counting pieces of furniture.
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Really??? Did you not recently complain that some of the debris went several hundred feet from the footprint of the towers?

Which is it then, explosives caused parts of the towers to go too far, or explosives are required to have all the debris remain close to its original foot print?

If you are referring to the collapse as being basically straight down then show us another fire induced collapse (partial collapses count) in which the debris went in another direction other than down.
A favourite of the 911 conspiracists is the Windsor. I do note there that the steel that collapsed did go straight down. The steel that did not collapse was attached to the concrete core.

If you are referring to explosives being able to propel multi-ton chunks of steel horizontally during a controlled demolition then show us an example of such a thing having occured in a known controlled demolition. I only ask for this because I know you won't even attempt to quantify how explosives would be loaded such as to propel steel away from the building.
 
Clayton Moore said:
I've got something otherwise all of you "people" wouldn't be here swarming to get truthers to shut up.
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Actually despite repeated requests you have presented absolutly no rebuttal to anyone's posts here. Personal incredulity and bald contentions do not cut it. You were presented with detailed explanations and shrug it all off by simply contending its all wrong but you NEVER present any similarily detailed rebuttal.

IOW, we've asked and asked but so far, you got nothing.

Walter Ego said:
This accusation has always amused me too, especially since I've never voted for a republican in my life and was out protesting the Iraq invasion before it was launched (see photo).
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I gotta admit I chuckle at this as well. I am Canadian and I applauded Chretien when he refused to have Canada join the invasion of Iraq.
I know of no one in my circle of friends, family, and aquaintances who believes that GWB or any of his cabinet were anything but incompetant and driven by a grossly twisted ideology. Perhaps some people in Alberta are red neck enough to count as neo-con adherents, but I'm 1000+ miles(yeah, miles , or 1700 Kilometers) east of the yee-haw province.

In general Canadians are left of most Americans.
 
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Re: Clayton's references to "air resistance"


CM, taking the case of two identically shaped objects falling through sea level air, the only difference in composition of these two objects is that one is wooden while the other is steel.
Will one have a higher terminal velocity than the other or will they have the same terminal velocity. Explain why.

If you do not understand why I ask, say so, but answer the question anyway.

(prediction; no answer will be forthcoming)
 
jaydeehess said:
Re: Clayton's references to "air resistance"


CM, taking the case of two identically shaped objects falling through sea level air, the only difference in composition of these two objects is that one is wooden while the other is steel.
Will one have a higher terminal velocity than the other or will they have the same terminal velocity. Explain why.

If you do not understand why I ask, say so, but answer the question anyway.

(prediction; no answer will be forthcoming)
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The point of Neglecting friction such as air resistance, was obviously to bring to the forefront the friction of the solid floors to be dealt with.
Over 80 of them plus the 4 basements.
SMH
 
twinstead said:
See. This is all about ideology and world view for you, not about facts or logic. You think anybody who disagrees with you just HAS to be some right wing jingoist redneck who believes whatever the government tells him. In reality, of course, we run the gambit of political leanings, from deep left to deep right and everything inbetween. A simple trip to the politics sub forums would tell you that in an instant. We disagree with you because you have no compelling evidence to back up your beliefs; it's as simple as that.

But no, it's just easier for you to pretend that we're all "neocon lovers". LOL. Whatever makes you sleep at night.

What a joke.
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In the USA, 9/11 Truth is overwhelmingly a right-wing idea. We have talked about this endlessly on other threads

Originally Posted by Scott Sommers
First, what do we mean by Left/Right? And what would make a 'left-wing' Truther? Do they have long hair and do drugs? Do they seem "pretty cool" (as one member of JREF described to me in PM discussion of why Truthers are left)? All of this has nothing to do with what I mean by Left/Right, nor does who they vote for. I'm not going to get into what I mean by the Right when say that 911 Truth is dominated by Right-Wing ideology. We can start a new thread somewhere else, but by then, I'm sure I'll have lost interest in this again.

Second, what do we mean by the Truth Movement or 911 Truth or 911 conspiracy? Are these the same terms? Do they refer to the same people? Everyone here knows that this 911 conspiracy-thing morphed dramatically after the President became an African-American Democrat. One aspect of this that never gets talked about here is that a whole lot of those Democrats have just disappeared from 911 Truth. James Brolin, Sean Penn, Michael Moore and a host of other Hollywood Democrats seem to have forgotten they once had very strong opinions on this matter.

The 911 conspiracy-thing used to be made up of websites and on-line petitions. It used to involve people concerned almost exclusively with a 911 conspiracy. Take a look at old post on the major 911 websites. There's none of his talk about a NWO government and no inks with an aspartame conspiracy. It was just how Bush blew up the WTC, and it's a very different thing now.

I keep reading on the JREF that 911 conspiracy is dead - or something like that. this is ridiculous. There are thousands and thousands of Americans and others who really truly accept that the US government exploded the WTC with thermite or the Death Star or with some exotic technology that only the Reptoids really control. They just don't have anything to do with the kind of 911 conspiracy-thing that JREF deals with. Those nut bars who attacked the Holocaust Museum, crashed a plane into the IRS building, and attacked the school board meeting in Florida were babbling about a 911 conspiracy. Has anyone ever seem them on 911 Lies? Of course not. They found about it on some Right Wing forum or through Facebook or just hanging out at the local Ron Paul office. The idea of this 911 conspiracy-thing does not travel through Left Wing counterculture networks anymore. It travels exclusively through Right Wing networks linking it with fluoride and the attack on home gardening.

Third, some of these so-called Left-Wing Truthers are still around. You still have the likes of Sander Hicks, Cynthia McKinney and Cindy Sheehan hanging around talking about how Bush exploded the WTC with thermite - or some other brain damaged idea. They are now all linked up with We Are Change.

Let me repeat this. There is no way for Left Wing networks to promote this 911 conspiracy-thing. Why would there be? Obama's in the White House talking about health insurance. I keep getting told there are still "old hippies" left puking up 911 crap. This may be true. But they are increasingly being forced to deal with the Right in it's various forms.

Last point. The Right and 911 conspiracy-stuff may sometimes talk like they are leftists. This is an adaptive ideology. Their are members who recognize some segment of disaffected youth is susceptible to their message. Much of their message is morphed to appear more appealing to left-oriented youth who would never accept their ideology unless they were brought in one step at a time. Some critics have called this a rebranding of the Right or of Fascism. So you get these young kids in some 911 Truth-kind-of-thing who call themselves "radicals" and say they're all for "social change", but then they're hooked up with Gary Franchie and vote Ron Paul because he "supports liberty". But just because some 911 conspiracy kid calls himself an anarchist and advocates recreational use of LSD doesn't mean there are Left-Wing Truthers out there. A lot of this is some superficial costume put on by racist, fascist isolationists so they can look appealing to lost young kids.

Originally Posted by Scott Sommers
It doesn't matter what reason drew someone into the 911TM, the groups and ideologies they end up discussing are part of are now driven by a Right-Wing agenda. If you talk with Sander Hicks, he's an old hippie-sort-of-guy. But when Hicks wants to start a political party based on something about 911 Truth (he calls it the Truth Party), he has to call on Luke Rudkowski and We Are Change to even hold an inaugural event. Cynthia McKinney may have been a member of the Democrats, but she now has to stand on a stage and tell people what a great guy Luke is and how wonderful the work WAC is doing, even though prominent members of WAC openly advocate separating the USA into zones of habitation based on 'ethnic differences' and WAC is aligned with white patriot groups.

Sure there are hippies and dope heads and all sorts of people attached to this 911-conspiracy-thing. We just had Tracy Blevins here arguing for no planes on 911, as well as free love and doobies for everyone. But she has no ability to organize or recruit members or anything except post on JREF. Her whole idea of 'evidence' and 'research' is showing off a rock she found in an abandoned building at a coffee shop somewhere. She's not part of any movement at all and has no ability to speak for anyone. Luke Rudkowski and his gang, on the other hand, have networks that reach in the world of right-wing militias and other anti-government reactionary groups.
Originally Posted by Scott Sommers
My point is that 911 conspiracy-type-stuff appears as a belief along with other Right-Wing beliefs and not with Left Wing beliefs. There would be thousands, maybe tens of thousands, of Americans involved right now in this belief system. These would be people who support gun ownership, oppose the use any language other than English in the political USA, oppose the immigration of citizens of poor nations to the USA, etc., etc., etc.

We Are Change is the only group influential enough to mount a 911 Truth demonstration. Their belief system is tied very closely with an anti-immigration, anti-welfare, isolationist position. There is no major figure promoting a 911 conspiracy who comes from the Left who is not now aligned with WAC. WAC is in turn, aligned with white patriot and neo-fascists groups in a very public and open manner. There are many people who have or still do vote Obama or Ralph Nader or whatever who believe in a 911 conspiracy. They have no organization and as much as they are part of one, that group has a Right-Wing agenda.

Let me give you an example of what I mean. A while back, there was a video of a reasonably attractive white woman standing on the side of road yelling 911 conspiracy-type-stuff at cars. Her name is Brooke Kelley, AKA the Truth Fairy. On her Facebook, she states,


have been an activist since the age of five. starting with world hunger and homelessness being my number one goal to fix. then to animal testing in middle school where i saw the pain in the eyes of the dying rabbit, and educated my peers about solutions. ...blah, blah, blah
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Back in the 60s, she might have joined SDS. But now, she's hooked up with We Are Change LA whose member Bruno Bruhwiler, also a member of white patriot groups, is now awaiting trial on charges of terrorism. She boasts on Facebook that she worked with Gary Franchie, who warns people that FEMA runs death camps and how flouride is toxic. She is all tied up with the so-called liberty movement and is an avid supporter of Ron Paul. She supports the Teaparty Movement and has tried to join the American Daughters of Liberty, but they kicked her out because she's a Truther. But obviously, she thinks she shares a political agenda with these groups.

Is Brooke on the Left or on the Right? I'd say that whatever label she gives herself is no longer relevant. She works for people who support a Right-Wing agenda for the USA. These people are so far out on the Right, they think the US government openly murders people.
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Clayton Moore said:
Straight down, in a heap, pretty much in its own footprint.
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It's the "pretty much" qualifier that bugs me. WTC 7 fell across a 4-lane street and hit buildings on the other side. That's not "pretty much" in my estimation.
 
Clayton Moore said:
I've got something otherwise all of you "people" wouldn't be here swarming to get truthers to shut up.
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You overestimate your own importance. People disagreeing with you doesn't mean you're right. If few to none were responding, you can easily claim they were afraid.
 
000063 said:
It's the "pretty much" qualifier that bugs me. WTC 7 fell across a 4-lane street and hit buildings on the other side. That's not "pretty much" in my estimation.
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Yeah sure. Good point. ahahhahahahahhahahahahaha

Global collapse. Every structural point of each floor failed simultaneously. 110 times. 110 times. 48 times.

Somebody call Guinness.

268 times in one day.
268 times in one week.
268 times in one month.
268 times in one year.
268 times in one century.

Basements don't count.
 
Clayton Moore said:
I've got something otherwise all of you "people" wouldn't be here swarming to get truthers to shut up.
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How exactly are we getting truthers to shut up? We're the only ones who'll pay you any attention. If you had something, this debate would be going on somewhere that mattered, and you truthers wouldn't have to flock to this obscure little corner of the Internet to find anyone who'll even listen enough to laugh at you.

Dave
 
Clayton Moore said:
Yeah sure. Good point. ahahhahahahahhahahahahaha

Global collapse. Every structural point of each floor failed simultaneously. 110 times. 110 times. 48 times.

Somebody call Guinness.

268 times in one day.
268 times in one week.
268 times in one month.
268 times in one year.
268 times in one century.

Basements don't count.
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Source.

Look up "Fitterman Hall" and the Verizon building. Both were heavily damaged by WTC 7, and they were across the street. That is not "pretty much" in it's own footprint. You're trying to distract us. In fact, you've moved the goalposts away from a Truther claim that was already moved from "-exactly in its own footprint", to "-almost exactly in its own footprint", to "-onto its own footprint".

You never answered the question of how big one would expect the debris pile to be, by volume, Clay.
 
Scott Sommers said:
In the USA, 9/11 Truth is overwhelmingly a right-wing idea. We have talked about this endlessly on other threads
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Well, true or not, our delightful little cult member clayton moore doesn't fall under that category--but an ideologue is an ideologue is an ideologue, is it not?
 
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