Corbyn's days (very) numbered?

[Manger Douse]

Luggage and children? Looks like the Marie Celeste to me

What I think is that a man who:

A) Wants to run the country (Allegedly yet apparently can't book a train)
ii) Has a team of staff organising his transport arrangements (yet apparently can't book a train)
3) A Special Branch security detail (meaning he can't just jump on any old train)

Tried to pull a photo-op (probably thought of on the fly) and got caught with his pants down

PS - if you want to talk about the shamelessness of the British media you might want to ask the Guardian why they ran the original, positive story of traingate under a pseudonym of one of Corbyns crew yet didn't think to mention this to their readership

 

[Primus]

It was my claim and, yes, it appears that it is "rubbish" - it's a normal carriage that's simply adjacent to the food bar. But other passengers confirm that those seats were occupied by children and the luggage of people who had gone to the food bar, which is why they appear empty.

Later Virgin staff showed Corbyn to a seat in that carriage when a family was upgraded from there into 1st class.

Virgin and the media still cheerfully lied.

I find it a pretty incredible claim that out of a half carriage that seats 20, especially when no-one has reserved seats everyone would simultaneously decide to go into what must be a heaving food bar (they don't have much standing space).
I'm not even commenting on the overall press that Corbyn has been getting but I've noticed a determined narrative of trying to change the facts of what happened. The seats were not all reserved. If you're claiming that every seat has someone too short to be seen in it or had unattended luggage in it then that's an outlandish enough claim to require evidence.

I have sympathy with the point being made. I hate trains in the UK. The reason I bought my first car in London was because I swore I'd never again pay the £85 to stand for 3 hours on the Euston-Glasgow to visit my family. I won't pay £4500 to get rammed into a commuter sardine can so would rather take my chances on my motorbike through London every day. The point being I agree with the sentiment and there are so many services that Corbyn could have had this photo op. But he wasn't on one and he did it anyway and got caught lying. Branson must have not believed his luck when he realised he wasn't on one of his many horribly overcrowded trains.

 

[GlennB]

I find it a pretty incredible claim that out of a half carriage that seats 20, especially when no-one has reserved seats everyone would simultaneously decide to go into what must be a heaving food bar (they don't have much standing space).
I'm not even commenting on the overall press that Corbyn has been getting but I've noticed a determined narrative of trying to change the facts of what happened. The seats were not all reserved. If you're claiming that every seat has someone too short to be seen in it or had unattended luggage in it then that's an outlandish enough claim to require evidence.

Other passengers, who also had to stand or sit on the floor after passing through the carriage, confirm it.

Virgin offered Corbyn an upgrade to first class, which he declined. Virgin upgraded a family in the carriage in question to first class, and seated Corbyn in their seats. If standard seats were available, why go through that palaver?

 

[Primus]

Other passengers, who also had to stand or sit on the floor after passing through the carriage, confirm it.

Virgin offered Corbyn an upgrade to first class, which he declined. Virgin upgraded a family in the carriage in question to first class, and seated Corbyn in their seats. If standard seats were available, why go through that palaver?

Because it made a good photo op that tied in with one of his aims (re-nationalising the trains). Regarding it getting busy later. Maybe it did. Maybe Corbyn sat on the floor for a few stops until it filled up. We can see all the empty seats when he got on though. Anecdotal evidence by people who say they were there doesn't really counter that unfortunately.

 

[GlennB]

Because it made a good photo op that tied in with one of his aims (re-nationalising the trains). Regarding it getting busy later. Maybe it did. Maybe Corbyn sat on the floor for a few stops until it filled up. We can see all the empty seats when he got on though. Anecdotal evidence by people who say they were there doesn't really counter that unfortunately.

The first stop is York, followed by Darlington, and that's it according to the Virgin website. "A few stops" gets you to his destination - Newcastle. In fact another passenger remarked: "Maybe some people will get off at York".

And, apart from carriage H, the empty seats shown had 'reserved' tickets on them.

 

[Primus]

The first stop is York, followed by Darlington, and that's it according to the Virgin website. "A few stops" gets you to his destination - Newcastle. In fact another passenger remarked: "Maybe some people will get off at York".

And, apart from carriage H, the empty seats shown had 'reserved' tickets on them.

So apart from the carriage full of empty unreserved seats the seats were all reserved. Seems legit.

 

[GlennB]

So apart from the carriage full of empty unreserved seats the seats were all reserved. Seems legit.

The trip in question is scheduled for a 2:50 journey time. The first leg (to York) takes 1:50 (if I've read the horrific Virgin website right, and the comment about people getting off in York suggests I have)

If passengers claimed to have been unable to find a seat in that first leg then they are either lying or remarkably dim. The routine (as I recall, it's been a long time since I went through these hassles) is that if you walk the length of the train but can't find a seat then you go back when the train's well on its way and look for:

1) An unoccupied seat that was reserved from London, a no-show in other words. Check with neighbouring passengers in case that one has gone for coffee or something.

2) Failing that, a seat that's reserved from somewhere up the line, ideally as far from the start as possible to give you the maximum sitting time before the reservee gets on.

3) Failing those then there really are no seats at all, in which case you stand or sit on the floor.

If standard seats were truly available after leaving London then:

1) Others claiming to have been unable to get a seat were either lying or very dim.

2) Virgin staff acted strangely in not telling seatless passengers, including Corbyn, that there were standard seats available.

3) Virgin staff acted even more strangely in upgrading that family to 1st class in order to accommodate Corbyn.

But, back to the point about 'bad press' - while sources like The Guardian were up+down over this rather confused story, the right-wing press kept it simple: "Seats were available - Corbyn lied" (I paraphrase).

 

[Manger Douse]

Seats were available: The seats Corbyn's team booked for him before they came up with the wizard 'sitting on the floor' photo-op

 

[jimbob]

Seats were available: The seats Corbyn's team booked for him before they came up with the wizard 'sitting on the floor' photo-op

To be fair, I thought those were on the train that he missed. Of course there were other unoccupied, reserved seats that he could have sat in, leaving out the question of the unreserved seats.

 

[GlennB]

Seats were available: The seats Corbyn's team booked for him before they came up with the wizard 'sitting on the floor' photo-op

Well, that would be a blockbuster. Do you have any evidence for this revelation? Why didn't Virgin mention it?

 

[Manger Douse]

Well, that would be a blockbuster. Do you have any evidence for this revelation? Why didn't Virgin mention it?

The Data Protection Act at a guess but maybe I'm attributing malice to what could just as easily be incompetence.

 

[Primus]

Well, that would be a blockbuster. Do you have any evidence for this revelation? Why didn't Virgin mention it?

I'm pretty sure that wasn't the case. I'd expect to find the same level of evidence supporting it as we've seen supporting the assertation that a carriage of 20 empty unreserved seats was in fact was full of bags and short people only visible off camera.

 

[Manger Douse]

I think the unoccupied seats bit is a red herring. I don't believe that Corbyn, his team or his Special Branch (?) security would just get on a train without booking a ticket. Even I book a seat because I've had to sit on the floor from Euston to Lime Street but I'm not trying to lead the country one day

 

[GlennB]

The Data Protection Act at a guess but maybe I'm attributing malice to what could just as easily be incompetence.

Virgin may well have broken the DPA already when they released the video:

“For example, it can be appropriate to disclose surveillance information to a law enforcement agency when the purpose of the system is to prevent and detect crime, but it would not be appropriate to place them on the internet in most situations. It may also not be appropriate to disclose information about identifiable individuals to the media.”

Bad press resulting from Virgin being miffed.

 

[GlennB]

I'm pretty sure that wasn't the case. I'd expect to find the same level of evidence supporting it as we've seen supporting the assertation that a carriage of 20 empty unreserved seats was in fact was full of bags and short people only visible off camera.

Already addressed. Other passengers didn't use these 'empty seats' and Virgin, by their own admission, didn't offer them to passengers without seats - they shifted a family to 1st class to get Corbyn a seat in that carriage.

 

[Manger Douse]

Virgin may well have broken the DPA already when they released the video:

“For example, it can be appropriate to disclose surveillance information to a law enforcement agency when the purpose of the system is to prevent and detect crime, but it would not be appropriate to place them on the internet in most situations. It may also not be appropriate to disclose information about identifiable individuals to the media.”

Bad press resulting from Virgin being miffed.

It'll be covered under "most situations" I'm pretty sure Cctv footage of what is basically a public space comes under less strict regulation than a website where you have to enter your bank details (and all that entails) does

 

[GlennB]

Bad press? Corbyn didn't 'bow deeply enough' at that Remembrance Sunday service at the Cenotaph last year. But while other bigwigs quickly swanned off to bigwig receptions, Corbyn stuck around and chatted to veterans. Few, if any, papers mentioned that.

"I'm no fan of Corbyn, but I was at HG 2day, and when no other Politician was seen, he quietly watched ALL [the veterans] return! pic.twitter.com/VMUCV8nzlm"

The Sun: "Corbyn refuses to bow". Not much else. Other right-wing papers just the same.

I shudder to think of the filth that will swamp UK papers if he's Labour leader come the next election. UK opinion is created by the major media, though that's part of the reason that many are despairing and turning to the likes of Corbyn, who doesn't seem to want to play the game of 'impressions are all that matter'.

 

[Primus]

Already addressed. Other passengers didn't use these 'empty seats' and Virgin, by their own admission, didn't offer them to passengers without seats - they shifted a family to 1st class to get Corbyn a seat in that carriage.

Other passengers may well have used them. For all we know they filled up after Corbyn walked past them to sit on the floor. What we do know is they were empty whilst he was walking through the carriages 'looking' for a seat.

 

[jimbob]

Nice of you to show the (heavily cropped) image of the FOOD BAR carriage, as reported by The Sun ('nuff said?), where passengers don't take up residence for their journey.

And this is exactly the point about 'bad press' and the utter shamelessness of much of the British media.

Has the East Coast main line system changed that much since I last used it? I recall a food bar coach between the standard and first class coaches and if the seats were free, then they were available.

 

[Manger Douse]

Bad press? Corbyn didn't 'bow deeply enough' at that Remembrance Sunday service at the Cenotaph last year. But while other bigwigs quickly swanned off to bigwig receptions, Corbyn stuck around and chatted to veterans. Few, if any, papers mentioned that.

"I'm no fan of Corbyn, but I was at HG 2day, and when no other Politician was seen, he quietly watched ALL [the veterans] return! pic.twitter.com/VMUCV8nzlm"

The Sun: "Corbyn refuses to bow". Not much else. Other right-wing papers just the same.

I shudder to think of the filth that will swamp UK papers if he's Labour leader come the next election. UK opinion is created by the major media, though that's part of the reason that many are despairing and turning to the likes of Corbyn, who doesn't seem to want to play the game of 'impressions are all that matter'.

When they make up an story about him face *********** a dead pig let me know