Corbyn's days (very) numbered?

[angrysoba]

And Corbyn adds a number of faults of his own....Miliband did not have the baggage of some pretty extreme opinions the way that Corbyn has.

No, although the Daily Mail insinuated that he had inherited a "hatred" of Britain from his dad.

 

[Airfix]

How does leaving the EU stop trafficking and discourage illegal immigrants from trying to get in?

I'm not sure that it does, however it does send a powerful message of criticism to the institutions of the EU who have fatally let down so many people.

If anything it will be worse, we won't be part of the EU structures or organisations.

We don't need to be part of the EU's structures or organisations.
The USA is taking Syrian refugees, they're not part of the EU.

We SHOULD work with the UNHCR, establish a coalition of countries willing to accept refugees to build refugee camps in their countries and to build new asylum application processing camps in the countries neighbouring Syria and also Libya.

Get the genuine asylum seekers separated from the human traffickers. Then refuse asylum to anyone who hasn't gone through established channels of seeking asylum in the first safe country they come to, or at an embassy.

Deportation also has to be a tool if the traffickers are to go out of business.

Nobody will waste their money on illegal travel if it results in deportation when there are effective legal alternatives.

There are roughly 4,000 illegal immigrants camping at Calais hoping to get to Britain. Why have the French allowed so many to arrive there ?

Remaining in the EU isn't going to help stem that tide.
Despite the Le Tourquet agreement, France isn't doing what is needed, it's just palming these people off to Calais. The EU isn't encouraging France to do more. It isn't encouraging the reintroduction of border controls between members.

It isn't even doing enough to stop people dying at sea.

Lets try a new approach.

 

[Airfix]

No, although the Daily Mail insinuated that he had inherited a "hatred" of Britain from his dad.

True.

 

[Archie Gemmill Goal]

How does leaving the EU stop trafficking and discourage illegal immigrants from trying to get in?

If anything it will be worse, we won't be part of the EU structures or organisations.
There are already concerns about people coming in by sea there aren't enough patrol boats to cover the entire coast if the UK. Coming in by boat will be a doddle when UK waters are seperate from the EU as our pathetic Border Force flotilla will be on it's own, EU boats won't be there to help anymore, they won't be allowed in.

Well it wont help anyone but lets not pretend that people pontificating on who deserves to live in the UK or advocating putting children in camps for decades actually cares about helping anyone other than themself.

 

[Airfix]

Well it wont help anyone but lets not pretend that people pontificating on who deserves to live in the UK or advocating putting children in camps for decades actually cares about helping anyone other than themself.

Refugee camps are protected from kidnappings and terrorism, food, water and medicines are easily distributed. What is wrong with protecting people whilst processing asylum claims ?

I strongly resent the allegation that I want to put children in camps "for decades", I want to put children in camps (preferably with their families), so they don't starve to death, drown at sea, die from disease, or asphyxiate in a shipping container, MEANWHILE THEIR ASYLUM APPLICATIONS ARE BEING PROCESSED.

I would arrange a coalition of safe countries who will accept refugees and provide shelter, food and medical care for them along with financial assistance and education for their children.

What I don't want, is criminal gangs profiting from people's misfortune.
http://www.unhcr.org/uk/news/latest...ean-death-toll-soars-first-5-months-2016.html

“Thus far 2016 is proving to be particularly deadly. Some 2,510 lives have been lost so far, compared to 1,855 in the same period in 2015.”

2,510 people dead (and how many were children ?)
Doesn't that make you want to change things ?

 

[Craig B]

... We SHOULD work with the UNHCR, establish a coalition of countries willing to accept refugees to build refugee camps in their countries and to build new asylum application processing camps in the countries neighbouring Syria and also Libya.

As already stated, that's the whole point of this. Keep the foreigners out. It has nothing to do with the EU, the Commonwealth or the UN. It is pure unadulterated chauvinism and xenophobia that is driving this.

Earlier you stated that seeking refuge is a good reason for wishing to move to another country, but economic migration isn't. This is a false and fabricated distinction. Even the refugees have to be kept in camps far away from the UK, until Syria is restored. Then they'll go back there. But none of them is ever to be allowed to set foot here. The UKIP bigots won't stand for it, and it is they who are driving this whole enterprise.

 

[Archie Gemmill Goal]

Refugee camps are protected from kidnappings and terrorism, food, water and medicines are easily distributed. What is wrong with protecting people whilst processing asylum claims ?

I strongly resent the allegation that I want to put children in camps "for decades", I want to put children in camps (preferably with their families), so they don't starve to death, drown at sea, die from disease, or asphyxiate in a shipping container, MEANWHILE THEIR ASYLUM APPLICATIONS ARE BEING PROCESSED.

I would arrange a coalition of safe countries who will accept refugees and provide shelter, food and medical care for them along with financial assistance and education for their children.

What I don't want, is criminal gangs profiting from people's misfortune.
http://www.unhcr.org/uk/news/latest...ean-death-toll-soars-first-5-months-2016.html



2,510 people dead (and how many were children ?)
Doesn't that make you want to change things ?

If you dont want criminal gangs profiting from other peoples misfortune then let them in legally. Otherwise stop pretending this has anything to do with protecting or helping people.

You resent the allegation you want to put kids in camps for decades yet thats exactly what you propose. Put your kids in a camp first then start demanding it of others.

 

[Airfix]

If you dont want criminal gangs profiting from other peoples misfortune then let them in legally.

That's what I'm proposing, can't you read ?

I am proposing a framework, in which they go to refugee camps whilst their asylum claims are processed, then they get safe passage, with the RAF, USAF and other air forces providing transportation for legitimate refugees.

What you seem to be proposing is opening the borders without doing anything about the traffickers.

I hope I'm mistaken about your proposal, but there doesn't seem to have been much thought gone into it.
And if I'm right, you'll turn a flood into a tsunami in which tens of thousands will die at sea and on land and criminals including terrorists and rapists and war criminals on the run will enter.

Have a bit of sense.
Let the refugees in, but not bad people.

 

[Airfix]

As already stated, that's the whole point of this. Keep the foreigners out. It has nothing to do with the EU, the Commonwealth or the UN. It is pure unadulterated chauvinism and xenophobia that is driving this.

Earlier you stated that seeking refuge is a good reason for wishing to move to another country, but economic migration isn't. This is a false and fabricated distinction. Even the refugees have to be kept in camps far away from the UK, until Syria is restored. Then they'll go back there. But none of them is ever to be allowed to set foot here. The UKIP bigots won't stand for it, and it is they who are driving this whole enterprise.

I'm not the bigot here, I suggest you look in the mirror.

I suggested a method for granting safe passage to refugees, starting with a refugee camp that has staff processing asylum applications.

A coalition of countries including ours, working through the UNHCR to take refugees in together.

And it's weird that you single out UKIP as they were the first to suggest we take Syrian refugees in instead of bombing Syria.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9z5MLHcY7_g

 

[jimbob]

No, although the Daily Mail insinuated that he had inherited a "hatred" of Britain from his dad.

An example of the reason that I said that Corbyn has had a better press than many other Labour leaders.

 

[Airfix]

For the most part, he hasn't had a better press.

Traingate for example, the press milked that for all they were worth, yet the carriage full of 'empty' seats was full of reservations.

 

[Craig B]

... And it's weird that you single out UKIP as they were the first to suggest we take Syrian refugees in instead of bombing Syria.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9z5MLHcY7_g

Here's another statement from Farage on that topic

Last month the Prime Minister agreed to let 20,000 refugees from camps in and around Syria into the UK over the next five years.

But Mr Farage slammed the move, saying: "Basically what Cameron has done pretty much excludes any Christians from coming.

"I just feel that the Christians are being ignored."​

Daily Express 06:48, Thu, Oct 1, 2015 http://www.express.co.uk/news/polit...stian-refugees-Britain-migrants-referendum-EU

 

[Airfix]

The Christian minority in Syria is one of the most endangered ethnic groups in that country is it not ?

So, although it may pain you to admit it, Nigel Farage actually has a point here.
Would it be so wrong to use a little triage logic here, by starting with the ethnicities most at risk (from sectarian violence) and going forwards from there?

 

[Craig B]

The Christian minority in Syria is one of the most endangered ethnic groups in that country is it not ?

So, although it may pain you to admit it, Nigel Farage actually has a point here.
Would it be so wrong to use a little triage logic here, by starting with the ethnicities most at risk (from sectarian violence) and going forwards from there?

So we should apply a religious test to refugees? But Farage's statement gives a somewhat different impression from the inclusivity you would have us believe characterises UKIP. I think you realise that.

 

[Darat]

An example of the reason that I said that Corbyn has had a better press than many other Labour leaders.

Does this mean you consider the research flawed?

 

[Airfix]

So we should apply a religious test to refugees? But Farage's statement gives a somewhat different impression from the inclusivity you would have us believe characterises UKIP. I think you realise that.

I think we've established that words can be put into peoples mouths and people's positions misrepresented by prejudices.

Whatever one's particular beliefs, it is a fact that sectarian violence and ethnic cleansing is rife in Syria and Iraq (remember the siege of Mount Sinjar, and the religious minority Islamic State tried to destroy on it ?)

We should be welcoming religious and atheist minorities from Syria who may never be able to return home.

Who is in more danger, people from the same sect as the self styled Islamic State group or someone who is either gay, from a religious minority or atheist?

I'm not saying we shouldn't be taking Sunni Muslims in as well as people from oppressed minorities, but we should prioritise refuge services to those in the most need and work back from there.
Nigel Farage hasn't said we shouldn't either. He's said though that we shouldn't leave Christians behind. We shouldn't leave children behind we shouldn't leave anyone in need at risk of death.

We should get the camps built and staffed to receive refugees, process their applications and help everyone we can, whilst using triage.

Do you agree, should the most endangered people be first in the queue for refuge ?

Triage means helping the most endangered person or people first.

In a first aid situation, a person screaming, is in less need than a person too injured to scream. So you help the most injured person first, and then you help the person who is screaming. It's the same logic.

Btw, one doesn't have to like Farage to agree with triage.

 

[Giz]

So we should apply a religious test to refugees?.

Should at-risk status be a factor in assessing refugees?

 

[Primus]

For the most part, he hasn't had a better press.

Traingate for example, the press milked that for all they were worth, yet the carriage full of 'empty' seats was full of reservations.

That's not true. One carriage had all the seats reserved. Another did not.

 

[Craig B]

@airfix & giz

Come off it and stop being ridiculous. If you are fooling yourselves with this nonsense, I regret that. But I'm not going to be misdirected by such balderdash. "Being the first to suggest we should take Syrian refugees" and "slamming the move to let 20,000 refugees in over five years" are not quite the same thing. So please spare me any more of this.

 

[GlennB]

That's not true. One carriage had all the seats reserved. Another did not.

[qimg]https://www.thesun.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2016/08/composite-corbyn-single1-landscape.jpg?w=750[/qimg]

Nice of you to show the (heavily cropped) image of the FOOD BAR carriage, as reported by The Sun ('nuff said?), where passengers don't take up residence for their journey.

And this is exactly the point about 'bad press' and the utter shamelessness of much of the British media.