Corbyn's days (very) numbered?

[Airfix]

In my case I will continue to vote but would likely swap to the Lib Dems or possibly Plaid. I would not, and could not vote for a Eurosceptic party not just because I happen to disagree with that single policy but because of the knock-on it would likely have for all parts of the economy.

We're leaving the EU anyway. The thing is, Labour could have been the ones negotiating the terms of Brexit instead of the Tories.

I'd argue that it's easier for Labour to attempt to woo a centre-left Europhile Lib Dem supporter than it is for them to persuade a dyed-in-the-wool Tory Eurosceptic.

The idea that every Euroskeptic is a dyed in the wool Tory is wrong.
Ever heard the phrase "I didn't leave Labour Labour left me ?"

IMO there's a trade-off between being true to your beliefs and being electable.

Yes there is, and Ed Miliband forgot that. It cost him the 2015 election.

 

[Tolls]

Yes there is, and Ed Miliband forgot that. It cost him the 2015 election.

Losing Scotland cost him. Even then Labour's share of the vote went up.

Unless you somehow think that a very pro-EU Scotland will somehow support a Euroskeptic Labour?

In which case I have a bridge over here you might be interested in...

 

[Airfix]

But where have the traffickers got to in all this?

They are operating in North African countries and the Middle East, in Eastern Europe and in the Schengen treaty countries.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/aug/28/more-than-70-dead-austria-migrant-truck-tragedy

 

[GlennB]

Why would Euroskeptics vote for a party that wished to remain in the EU ?

Because voting tends to be based on a balance of preferences. Their Euroskepticism was outweighed by other considerations? Just a thought

 

[Airfix]

Losing Scotland cost him.

Yes it did and I never said that opposing the EU referendum was Labour's only mistake last year. Austerity lite was another big mistake.

However, the Tories managed to with the General Election without Scotland.
Ed Miliband might have been able to win the election had he not been so negative.

Treating voters like idiots and saying 'no you can't' is not a good move.

 

[Airfix]

Anyway.
What Labour needs now is someone who is in tune with the mood of the country. Not a sore loser.

 

[The Don]

We're leaving the EU anyway. The thing is, Labour could have been the ones negotiating the terms of Brexit instead of the Tories.

In what parallel universe ?

Under a Labour government there wouldn't have been a Brexit referendum

The idea that every Euroskeptic is a dyed in the wool Tory is wrong.

...and that's why I've never made that claim

That said Tories are more likely (than Labour) to be Eurosceptic and a Eurosceptic is more likely to be a Tory than a Labour Party supporter.

It seems perverse to me to seek support among a group of people who are less likely to look favourably on a party (Euroscpetics) than among a group who are more likely to look favourably (Europhiles)

Ever heard the phrase "I didn't leave Labour Labour left me ?"

Yes, and there may be good reasons for that. If, like Dennis Skinner, you are still fighting the class wars of the 1970's then there's good reason why the party has left you - the world has changed in the last 40 years but Corbyn's unbending dogma does not reflect that.

If the Labour Party adopted a Eurosceptic position then Labour would have left 2/3 of its support

Yes there is, and Ed Miliband forgot that. It cost him the 2015 election.

There were many, many reasons why Labour lost the last election. As Tolls pointed out, Scotland was a major factor. Another was having a leader who lacked charisma, offered too easy a target for the right wing press and who failed to connect with the electorate in sufficient numbers. All faults that Corbyn seems to share.

 

[The Don]

Anyway.
What Labour needs now is someone who is in tune with the mood of the country. Not a sore loser.

....and that person emphatically is not Jeremy Corbyn.

 

[Airfix]

....and that person emphatically is not Jeremy Corbyn.

Or Owen Smith.

Labour is in a very big mess.

 

[Archie Gemmill Goal]

Not a good enough reason.

Seeking refuge is, having skills to offer and a job to go to is.
But simply wanting to come to Britain or another European country because "the streets are paved with gold", no sorry mate, not good enough, people will die in their hundreds if we allow that (and sadly they have).

What is needed is the development of the developing world, not the abandonment of it.

It really doesn't help when we hit such countries with protectionist tariffs.

Obviously we need to provide refuge for victims of war, but there's no reason why we should not work via the UNHCR with Lebanon, with Jordan and Turkey and come up with a system of asylum processing centres to come up with a global response to the refugee crisis to take the strain off Syria's neighbours and provide safe passage to safe countries and sanctuary until this awful war is over and Syria is rebuilt.

Utter guff.

On what planet will Brexit have any effect on people coming from Syria and other parts of the world to Europe?

On what planet does making immigration tougher to achieve legally do anything other than encourage illegal people trafficking?

And how does locking people up in camps help them?

How do we develop the developing world with points based immigration cherry picking their best and brightest to drive our taxis and clean our toilets?

Literally nothing you say on immigration makes the slightest sense. As with most leavers.

 

[angrysoba]

Quite amusing piece at Corbyn's expense in the sense that he and his supporters unwittingly conform to type - i.e. they are thought of by Torygraph readers as the "loony left":

The man standing on top of the fire engine was growing mildly irate. If Jeremy Corbyn’s policies were “lunatic ideas”, he cried, then “we should all put our hands up, and say we’re all lunatics!”

“Hooray!” shouted the crowd in the street, putting their hands up.

“We should all be proud lunatics!” he cried.

“Hooray!” shouted everyone again.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/201...ud-lunatics-the-day-stoke-went-wild-for-jere/

 

[ddt]

Is this a serious question? Do you only vote for parties whose manifesto exactly matches your desires?

I think that if that's the case, you'll never vote at all.

Or he just starts his own party.

Have you looked at the British far left political party landscape? The hardest thing with starting a new party is to find a suitable name. Every combination/permutation of the words "socialist", "communist", "marxist", "workers", "party" and UK or GB has already been taken.

 

[ddt]

Quite amusing piece at Corbyn's expense in the sense that he and his supporters unwittingly conform to type - i.e. they are thought of by Torygraph readers as the "loony left":

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/201...ud-lunatics-the-day-stoke-went-wild-for-jere/

Is that an "I'm Jeremy" moment?

 

[GlennB]

Or he just starts his own party.

Why? He was, and will be again, elected Labour leader by a fat majority. If people want to split and form another party it's up to them to go right ahead, and invent a name for it while they're at it.

 

[Airfix]

Under a Labour government there wouldn't have been a Brexit referendum

And that is one of the reasons they didn't get back in.

 

[Airfix]

Why? He was, and will be again, elected Labour leader by a fat majority.

I strongly agree with you. He will be. All Owen Smith and Angela Eagle before him have done, is damage Labour at a time when they should be attacking the Tories.

 

[Andy_Ross]

Look. I am against illegal immigration caused by human trafficking.
People have DIED because of human trafficking and the organised criminal gangs attached to human trafficking.

How does leaving the EU stop trafficking and discourage illegal immigrants from trying to get in?

If anything it will be worse, we won't be part of the EU structures or organisations.
There are already concerns about people coming in by sea there aren't enough patrol boats to cover the entire coast if the UK. Coming in by boat will be a doddle when UK waters are seperate from the EU as our pathetic Border Force flotilla will be on it's own, EU boats won't be there to help anymore, they won't be allowed in.

 

[ddt]

Why? He was, and will be again, elected Labour leader by a fat majority. If people want to split and form another party it's up to them to go right ahead, and invent a name for it while they're at it.

The "he" in my post was not Corbyn, but Airfix. Here's the exchange that led up to it:

Why would Euroskeptics vote for a party that wished to remain in the EU ?

Is this a serious question? Do you only vote for parties whose manifesto exactly matches your desires?

I think that if that's the case, you'll never vote at all.

Or he just starts his own party.

 

[angrysoba]

Or he just starts his own party.

I would start my own party but I am in fervent disagreement with myself quite often. I could start a rival party to my splitter self called the angry people's soba front for the liberation of noodles, but they are strongly opposed by the popular angry front for noodly soba.

 

[dudalb]

In what parallel universe ?

Under a Labour government there wouldn't have been a Brexit referendum



...and that's why I've never made that claim

That said Tories are more likely (than Labour) to be Eurosceptic and a Eurosceptic is more likely to be a Tory than a Labour Party supporter.

It seems perverse to me to seek support among a group of people who are less likely to look favourably on a party (Euroscpetics) than among a group who are more likely to look favourably (Europhiles)



Yes, and there may be good reasons for that. If, like Dennis Skinner, you are still fighting the class wars of the 1970's then there's good reason why the party has left you - the world has changed in the last 40 years but Corbyn's unbending dogma does not reflect that.

If the Labour Party adopted a Eurosceptic position then Labour would have left 2/3 of its support



There were many, many reasons why Labour lost the last election. As Tolls pointed out, Scotland was a major factor. Another was having a leader who lacked charisma, offered too easy a target for the right wing press and who failed to connect with the electorate in sufficient numbers. All faults that Corbyn seems to share.

And Corbyn adds a number of faults of his own....Miliband did not have the baggage of some pretty extreme opinions the way that Corbyn has.
Corbyn wants to bring back the Labor Party of the 70's.That just will not fly today.