Corbyn did win, what's next?

[lionking]

Expand.....

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethnic_issues_in_Japan

The Japanese Constitution states that "there shall be no discrimination in political, economic or social relations because of race." At least one native people-group (the Ainu) was formally recognized by the Japanese government for the first time in 1997. However, non-citizens who were born in Japan or elsewhere can be legally restricted from certain services and activities.[1][not in citation given] According to census statistics, 98.5% of the population of Japan are Japanese, with the remainder being foreign nationals residing in Japan.[2] However, these statistics measure citizenship, not ethnicity, with all domestic minorities such as the Ainu, Ryukyuans, Burakumin, Hafu, and naturalized immigrants being counted as simply "Japanese."[3] The Japanese government refuses to collect data on the ethnic identities of its citizens, claiming that there are no issues of race relations among Japanese citizens as they are all of the same race.[4]

In 2010, according to the UN Committee on the Elimination of Racial Discrimination, Japan's record on racism has improved, but there is still room for progress.[86] The committee was critical of the lack of anti-hate speech legislation in the country and the treatment of Japanese minorities and its large Korean and Chinese communities

Only Wikipedia, I'll concede. You might want to ask why Japan is populated by people of Japanese ethnicity to the turn of 99%. As I understand it, the country has no immigration program at all. This is despite one of the, if not the, oldest population in the world. The country's population is reducing and this will speed up. Immigration would help revitalise the country, but they won't do it. Why? Severe xenophobia is my belief, but I welcome contradiction.

Off topic I know, but you asked.

 

[Archie Gemmill Goal]

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethnic_issues_in_Japan






Only Wikipedia, I'll concede. You might want to ask why Japan is populated by people of Japanese ethnicity to the turn of 99%. As I understand it, the country has no immigration program at all. This is despite one of the, if not the, oldest population in the world. The country's population is reducing and this will speed up. Immigration would help revitalise the country, but they won't do it. Why? Severe xenophobia is my belief, but I welcome contradiction.

Off topic I know, but you asked.

I think we are talking about two different things, which is not to dismiss your points. From what you I see there Japanese citizens have equal rights regardless of ethnicity. Correct me if I'm wrong.

The problem seems to be about non-Japanese citizens which again I'm not dismissing but is different.

I admit though it tends to get complicated in East Asia where ethnicity and nationality are more intermingled.

 

[angrysoba]

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethnic_issues_in_Japan






Only Wikipedia, I'll concede. You might want to ask why Japan is populated by people of Japanese ethnicity to the turn of 99%. As I understand it, the country has no immigration program at all. This is despite one of the, if not the, oldest population in the world. The country's population is reducing and this will speed up. Immigration would help revitalise the country, but they won't do it. Why? Severe xenophobia is my belief, but I welcome contradiction.

Off topic I know, but you asked.

Eh? You were asked which countries were favourable to particular ethnicities and your links explicitly say that Japan has no legal favouring of particular ethnicities.

 

[lionking]

Eh? You were asked which countries were favourable to particular ethnicities and your links explicitly say that Japan has no legal favouring of particular ethnicities.

No legal favouring, but I think that link shows xenophobia guiding government policy, and that ethnic Japanese are favoured over minorities. But it's off topic, so I sorry I responded to the question.

 

[WildCat]

Could you expand on this please? I have no awareness of what you are talking about and if its true its a scandalous state of affairs I would like to see rectified.

Ireland for example. Descendants of Irish citizens can get Irish citizenship just by traveling to Ireland and applying. Don't even have to live there. I know a guy (who has since died) whose grandfather was from Ireland, he went there on vacation and got Irish citizenship when he was there.

 

[angrysoba]

No legal favouring, but I think that link shows xenophobia guiding government policy, and that ethnic Japanese are favoured over minorities. But it's off topic, so I sorry I responded to the question.

You surmised it, but posted links that actually show the opposite.

 

[Craig B]

Israel is hardly unique in that regard. Many countries favor some ethnicities over others, including some in western Europe. But it's only Israel you are obsessed about, because Jews.

Crap.

Israel exists mainly because people did want to kill Jews and in fact did. And that happened in "enlightened" Europe. Half of Palestinians voted for a political party that has the genocide of Jews as their official position, and this is who you think Israel should be disbanded for. Yes, you sound exactly like the KKK link I posted. They hate Jews too btw.

More crap. This is the primitive equation of political views with racism. At least it has this merit: it demonstrates that right wing Zionists have no other argument than to accuse people of antisemitism.

As to my assertion that Israel is specifically a Jewish state, you don't to take need my word for it.

Modern Israel came into existence on 14 May 1948 as the homeland for the Jewish people. It was also defined in its declaration of independence as a "Jewish state," a term that appeared in the United Nations partition decision of 1947 as well. The related term "Jewish and democratic state" dates from 1992 legislation by the Israeli Knesset.​

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_state

Binyamin Netanyahu will push ahead with a rare change to Israel's basic laws – which amount to the country's constitution – to insist Israel is "the nation state of one people only – the Jewish people – and of no other people" ... The proposed law would be in addition to Israel's declaration of independence of May 1948 – the anniversary of which is celebrated on Tuesday – which defines Israel as a Jewish state.​

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/may/04/binyamin-netanyahu-israel-jewish-state

 

[GlennB]

We seem to have drifted quite a long way from Corbyn and the UK

 

[Craig B]

Ireland for example. Descendants of Irish citizens can get Irish citizenship just by traveling to Ireland and applying. Don't even have to live there. I know a guy (who has since died) whose grandfather was from Ireland, he went there on vacation and got Irish citizenship when he was there.

OK. A Jew arrives in Israel whose grandfather was born in the USA. A Palestinian arrives whose grandfather was born in Jaffa. Will the person with the grandparent born in what is now Israel receive favoured treatment over the descendant of the US citizen? If not, what is the point of your example?

Also, consider this.

The outcome and the reasoning of this ruling by the Supreme Court has been criticised because of its negative implications for the constitutional rights of the Palestinian citizens of Israel. The majority justices in this decision treated the rights of the Palestinian citizens of Israel as though they are an immigrant non-citizen group and not a homeland indigenous minority. The Court also discussed the role of demographic considerations and showed inclination to accept restricting the rights of the Palestinian citizens in order to preserve a Jewish majority among the population in Israel. It is argued that the arguments and justifications used by the Supreme Court provide the building blocks for a legal framework that explicitly institutionalises separate hierarchical categories of citizenship.​

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Citizenship_and_Entry_into_Israel_Law

ETA. If you want a better example of what you have in mind, you should look at Germany.

The article ‘Whose Fatherland’ says that German citizen law dates from 1913 and is based on the legal principle of jus sanguinis, or "blood law," parentage and ethnicity determine German nationality, not place of birth. A descendant of Germans stranded in Russia since the 18th century is considered a German, for example, while a Slav who was born in Munich is not.​

Now, lots of people criticise that, including me.

 

[Archie Gemmill Goal]

Ireland for example. Descendants of Irish citizens can get Irish citizenship just by traveling to Ireland and applying. Don't even have to live there. I know a guy (who has since died) whose grandfather was from Ireland, he went there on vacation and got Irish citizenship when he was there.

Irish is a nationality not an ethnicity so you'll have to try again there. There are black Irish people for example who are able to take advantage of this rule.

 

[Henri McPhee]

We seem to have drifted quite a long way from Corbyn and the UK

The point about this is that Jeremy Corbyn has been quoted in some quarters as being anti-Semitic for his views on Israel, which I think is a bit unfair. Personally I think the Holocaust was appalling. It was a bit before my time. I have thought in the past that there was something wrong with the German mentality, but other countries like Russia and Croatia and Latvia and Estonia and Lithuania have acted similarly in the past.

A lot of the problems in the Middle East now come from the collapse of the Ottoman Empire aftr the first world war. Countries like Iraq and Syria were in effect divided up between the British and French Empires, while Egypt was under British influence at that time. America kept out of it all at that time.

The Balfour declaration during the first world war mentioned a homeland for the Jewish race which was then suddenly changed to a homeland for the Jewish people for some reason. Lloyd George and the Rothschilds were very keen on the idea. The problem really is that it was impractical from the start. The Arabs regarded Israel as an alien state on Arab lands and we are are still feeling the effects of that now.

 

[WildCat]

OK. A Jew arrives in Israel whose grandfather was born in the USA. A Palestinian arrives whose grandfather was born in Jaffa. Will the person with the grandparent born in what is now Israel receive favoured treatment over the descendant of the US citizen? If not, what is the point of your example?

Also, consider this.

The outcome and the reasoning of this ruling by the Supreme Court has been criticised because of its negative implications for the constitutional rights of the Palestinian citizens of Israel. The majority justices in this decision treated the rights of the Palestinian citizens of Israel as though they are an immigrant non-citizen group and not a homeland indigenous minority. The Court also discussed the role of demographic considerations and showed inclination to accept restricting the rights of the Palestinian citizens in order to preserve a Jewish majority among the population in Israel. It is argued that the arguments and justifications used by the Supreme Court provide the building blocks for a legal framework that explicitly institutionalises separate hierarchical categories of citizenship.​

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Citizenship_and_Entry_into_Israel_Law

ETA. If you want a better example of what you have in mind, you should look at Germany.

The article ‘Whose Fatherland’ says that German citizen law dates from 1913 and is based on the legal principle of jus sanguinis, or "blood law," parentage and ethnicity determine German nationality, not place of birth. A descendant of Germans stranded in Russia since the 18th century is considered a German, for example, while a Slav who was born in Munich is not.​

Now, lots of people criticise that, including me.

And yet there's not a single thread here on the German law, or the Irish law, or the Danish law.

But lots and lots of outrage at Israel because of their laws regarding the Jewish diaspora.

I wonder why? It's a real headscratcher!

 

[WildCat]

Irish is a nationality not an ethnicity so you'll have to try again there. There are black Irish people for example who are able to take advantage of this rule.

And there are black Jews who take advantage of the rule in Israel.

So the difference is...?

 

[Craig B]

And yet there's not a single thread here on the German law, or the Irish law, or the Danish law.

But lots and lots of outrage at Israel because of their laws regarding the Jewish diaspora.

I wonder why? It's a real headscratcher!

Because if I or Corbyn or anyone else does express outrage at such laws, NOBODY accuses us of anti Irish or anti Danish racism. I spent many years active in organisations opposing S African apartheid. NOBODY EVER accused me of being anti-White. It's a head scratcher.

 

[Archie Gemmill Goal]

And there are black Jews who take advantage of the rule in Israel.

So the difference is...?

So you admit to misspeaking and withdraw your earlier comment?

Personally I would agree with your assertion here that Jewish is a religion and not an ethnicity but somewhat confusingly many Jewish people seem to disagree.

I don't think any European countries have immigration policies that favour one religion over another though many far-right nutters would probably support them.

If you want to know the difference between the laws in Israel and in Ireland then I would start by saying that the Irish law does not offer any additional rights to certain groups of its citizens based on their religion. If the rights to citizenship were only offered to Irish Catholics I think it would be more comparable.

 

[Craig B]

If the rights to citizenship were only offered to Irish Catholics I think it would be more comparable.

It would be exactly comparable. As I cited in #892

The Court also discussed the role of demographic considerations and showed inclination to accept restricting the rights of the Palestinian citizens in order to preserve a Jewish majority among the population in Israel.​

By the way, one of my grandmothers was born in Ireland. She was a fearsome extreme Protestant, regarding the Pope as the Man of Sin, the Roman Church as the Whore of Babylon, etc. If I were to apply for an Irish passport on the grounds of her birth in Ireland, would her religious predispositions be taken into account? I know they wouldn't be. Ireland is not a "Catholic state" in anything like that sense.

 

[MikeG]

Three and a half months after naming his Shadow Cabinet, and describing a new sort of Labour politics in which all strands of opinion would be represented and listened too, Corbyn is reshuffling his top team to make it more in line with his viewpoint. BBC.

Mr Corbyn is reportedly considering replacing some shadow ministers who disagree with his policies.
BBC political editor Laura Kuenssberg said she did not expect a "very dramatic purge" of Mr Corbyn's top team in the next 24 hours.
It would be "more a shuffle than lots of moderates being shoved out", she said, although new shadow foreign and defence secretaries are expected to be appointed.

One of his current team isn't impressed:

Shadow Europe minister Pat McFadden told BBC Radio 4's Westminster Hour Mr Corbyn's "whole career" was based on disagreeing with party leaders, and warned him against carrying out a reshuffle "as a punishment for shadow minister who disagree with him".
"He has talked of an open, pluralist kind of politics but a reshuffle for that reason could end looking more petty and divisive than open and pluralist politics," he added.

 

[Noztradamus]

Three and a half months after naming his Shadow Cabinet, and describing a new sort of Labour politics in which all strands of opinion would be represented and listened too, Corbyn is reshuffling his top team to make it more in line with his viewpoint. BBC.



One of his current team isn't impressed:

“Let a hundred flowers bloom, let a hundred schools of thought contend”.

 

[WildCat]

So you admit to misspeaking and withdraw your earlier comment?

How on earth did I misspeak?

Personally I would agree with your assertion here that Jewish is a religion and not an ethnicity but somewhat confusingly many Jewish people seem to disagree.

It's both a religion and an ethnicity. And either one is good enough for Israel, based on the fact that either one was good enough for Europeans to shove them into gas chambers within living memory.

I don't think any European countries have immigration policies that favour one religion over another though many far-right nutters would probably support them.

See above.

If you want to know the difference between the laws in Israel and in Ireland then I would start by saying that the Irish law does not offer any additional rights to certain groups of its citizens based on their religion. If the rights to citizenship were only offered to Irish Catholics I think it would be more comparable.

A distinction without a difference.

 

[Archie Gemmill Goal]

How on earth did I misspeak?

When you stated that European countries discriminate based on ethnicity and religion you were wrong.

It's both a religion and an ethnicity. And either one is good enough for Israel, based on the fact that either one was good enough for Europeans to shove them into gas chambers within living memory.

See above.

Yeah this old chestnut makes no sense and never did.

A distinction without a difference.

No it's actually a huge difference. The Irish Government doesn't discriminate against any group of it's own citizens by offering them rights based on their religion or ethnicity.