Cops with Machine Guns: The killing of Michael Nida

[mhaze]

How exactly would a CA policeman have a fully automatic machine gun, the MP5 in his handy hands to use to shoot the unarmed man that ran away who wasn't guilty of the crime they were looking for someone for?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m1PTcLhtTZw

Look....he ran away, therefore he was guilty of running away. And the MP5 is easier to aim and hit someone with than a little handgun, right? And we want our police to be efficient at doing their job, right?

Wait....

 

[geni]

MP5 isn't a a machine gun. Depending on the customer its either a machine pistol or a submachine gun.

 

[Seismosaurus]

Yup. An MP5 is a sub machine gun, which is distinct from a machine gun in that it fires handgun-sized ammunition, rather than rifle-sized ammunition. It's a common mistake, but it's odd that the video linked in the OP actually calls it a sub machine gun in the audio, whilst referencing it as a machine gun in the title of the video.

MP5s in police hands are often modified to be semi-automatic, so they don't even fit the casual civilian useage of the word. They may have a longer barrel than a handgun and a higher muzzle velocity and so be more dangerous... but then again they may not. Depends on exactly what variant is being used.

In short the idea that "This is a machine gun, that's a military weapon, therefore cops are turning into a military force" is not necessarily the case at all. Certainly nothing in that video indicates that it is.

 

[Cain]

If Michael Nida had a gun, he might have lived. Lesson here is: arm yourselves, brothers. We must be vigilant when it comes to the Obama-colored helicopters.

 

[The Dark Lord]

I don't know why it matters that he was shot with an MP5. Especially since an MP5 uses 9mm rounds.

 

[Roger Ramjets]

"A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed."

Cops are people too. Should we take away their right to have the weapons they need, just because they are the good guys?

he ran away, therefore he was guilty of running away

The cops had reason to believe that he was a dangerous criminal, and he did nothing to dissuade them from that belief.

So they made a mistake, and he actually was not the criminal they were looking for. But people get arrested on suspicion all the time. Sometimes the cops don't have enough to hold them on, and occasionally they might pick up an innocent bystander who was just in the wrong place at the wrong time. But it's better to arrest a likely suspect, rather than let a potentially dangerous armed criminal run around committing more crimes.

Most people accept that in some situations they may need to be temporarily detained while the cops check them out, and most people also know that attempting to escape custody is a very stupid thing to do, even if you are innocent.

Nida was largely responsible for his own demise. After being arrested he should not have even attempted to escape (twice!) as this simply reinforced the officers' belief that they had the right guy. What if he really was a dangerous armed robber, and they just let him go? Who would be (rightfully) chastised for allowing an armed fugitive to run around committing more crimes, possibly even murdering innocent people?

 

[crimresearch]

Yup. An MP5 is a sub machine gun, which is distinct from a machine gun in that it fires handgun-sized ammunition, rather than rifle-sized ammunition. It's a common mistake, but it's odd that the video linked in the OP actually calls it a sub machine gun in the audio, whilst referencing it as a machine gun in the title of the video.

MP5s in police hands are often modified to be semi-automatic, so they don't even fit the casual civilian useage of the word. They may have a longer barrel than a handgun and a higher muzzle velocity and so be more dangerous... but then again they may not. Depends on exactly what variant is being used.

In short the idea that "This is a machine gun, that's a military weapon, therefore cops are turning into a military force" is not necessarily the case at all. Certainly nothing in that video indicates that it is.

Do we suppose that the person being shot can tell the difference?

 

[mhaze]

"A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed."

Cops are people too. Should we take away their right to have the weapons they need, just because they are the good guys?

The cops had reason to believe that he was a dangerous criminal, and he did nothing to dissuade them from that belief.

So they made a mistake, and he actually was not the criminal they were looking for. But people get arrested on suspicion all the time. Sometimes the cops don't have enough to hold them on, and occasionally they might pick up an innocent bystander who was just in the wrong place at the wrong time. But it's better to arrest a likely suspect, rather than let a potentially dangerous armed criminal run around committing more crimes.

Most people accept that in some situations they may need to be temporarily detained while the cops check them out, and most people also know that attempting to escape custody is a very stupid thing to do, even if you are innocent.

Nida was largely responsible for his own demise. After being arrested he should not have even attempted to escape (twice!) as this simply reinforced the officers' belief that they had the right guy. What if he really was a dangerous armed robber, and they just let him go? Who would be (rightfully) chastised for allowing an armed fugitive to run around committing more crimes, possibly even murdering innocent people?

So they not only could not figure out how to cuff and restrain him - TWICE - and they couldn't figure out how to use any time of non lethal force - TWICE - and there just wasn't anything left to do but shoot the guy as he was running away.

Yep. That was one....POTENTIALLY DANGEROUS INDIVIDUAL....there. Who knows? He could have been a serial rapist. Maybe a child molester. Or a bank robber. Probably stashed the guns and money somewhere before he started running around unarmed.

Look...none of that matters...he was GUILTY OF RUNNING AWAY!

 

[crimresearch]

So the way the reports read, there is a lot to be concerned about.

There's no death penalty for looking like a robber.. or for that matter, even 'being' a robber. And 'turned in an aggressive manner' leaves a lot unanswered.

But at least Nida didn't have 2 deadly metal objects strapped to his hands, when he was shot...

http://ozarksfirst.com/fulltext?nxd_id=682302

 

[mhaze]

Wow. I don't know what to think of that one. Not a clue.

 

[fuelair]

Wow. I don't know what to think of that one. Not a clue.

Especially given that if he was cuffed his cuffed hands should have been behind him - in whch case, unless he maneuvered his arms around front again (not that difficult,) he just could not have shot himself in either temple. And, silly me, I ask again as I have on many other reports like this: and what did the analysis of GPR show? (I know what it should show if he did get his arms (and a weapon) back to the front and actually shot himself depending on which side of the head - but I suspect no or minimal GSR will be anywhere but around the wound and on his clothes around it) .

 

[BStrong]

I have no issue whatsoever with any LEA issuing officers SMG's or carbines, as long as the officer(s) in question are trained on the platform.

My department issued MP5's, I finally convinced administration to transition to the M16/9. Commonality with the 16's we also issued, easier serviced platform, straight blowback system simpler than the HK delayed blowback roller locked system.

Here's the MP5's on the way to be traded in:

As to the Downy shooting, I'd want to see the final shooting team report before making up my mind.

 

[triforcharity]

Do we suppose that the person being shot can tell the difference?

If they're dead, does it matter what they can tell?

 

[Roger Ramjets]

"Nida ran across the road to buy cigarettes"

It's true, an addiction to cigarettes can kill you!

"[Nida] had a fear of law enforcement"

So why deliberately antagonize them? Man deserves a Darwin award.

 

[The Central Scrutinizer]

...fully automatic machine gun...

Redundant.

 

[geni]

Yup. An MP5 is a sub machine gun, which is distinct from a machine gun in that it fires handgun-sized ammunition, rather than rifle-sized ammunition. It's a common mistake, but it's odd that the video linked in the OP actually calls it a sub machine gun in the audio, whilst referencing it as a machine gun in the title of the video.

Well its propaganda. At a guess I'd say they are worried that the police might shoot someone rich. However the MP5 is a really odd target. Its a pretty common weapon among law enforcement worldwide.

 

[Seismosaurus]

Do we suppose that the person being shot can tell the difference?

That was kind of the point I was making. Depending on the model of MP5 being used, there actually isn't much of a difference between it and a pistol. And if there's no difference the outraged attitude about "machine guns" really doesn't make a lot of sense.