Cop pulls gun on 11 year old boy

[Manopolus]

Okay.

Sorry I don't see a difference.

How can it be true that police officers are not allowed to draw their guns for defensive purposes? They may well have told you this at a gun safety class. Probably good advice for citizens. Not so good advice for cops.







Ever watch COPS? Every episode starts with the female Portland OR officer radioing in, "One-thirty-two and Bush, I've got him at gunpoint."


I think you're mistaken about this.

In every one of those cases mentioned, there were indications that there was a clear and present danger and the police had every intention of shooting if the situation escalated. As a general rule, an 11 year old kid cutting the wrong branches and then possibly mouthing off to the cops or something isn't a situation that would suggest this sort of a threat.

IF someone can establish that there was a clear and present danger (and I really have no clue whether there might have been or not) then I suppose the cops weren't in the wrong... I have my suspicions, but I haven't even taken a side on that question. You seem to be putting arguments into my words that aren't actually there. In reality, I wasn't there... so I don't actually know the answer to that.

The post I originally quoted seemed to me to suggest that it's okay to draw a weapon just to threaten someone into compliance while not intending to use it and not in a dangerous situation in general as long as you're wearing a badge. If you read into it anything other than an objection to that comment, you were wrong. My only assertion was that a viable threat needs to be present before you endanger someone's life in this fashion (no matter how unlikely you think it is that the firearm will intentionally or unintentionally go off). The gun IS specifically for defense, not for threatening people who won't immediately comply with your every demand... that's my actual point. There are other ways to encourage compliance, and some of them aren't even adversarial. A little patience and respect sometimes goes a long way.

I've seen situations in real life and on video where the police have unnecessarily taken adversarial positions... and quite frankly, such people don't need to be wearing a badge (or maybe just needed the day off or something... admittedly, nobody's perfect). If it involves a gun being pointed at an 11 year old (or anybody, when it's unwarranted), it's quite a bit worse than normal, and not something to be dismissive about.

 

[Checkmite]

I agree. I get an officer drawing a gun in response to a threat. I just don't believe noncompliance or passive resistance should get to be treated like a threat. Kids, especially, are quite often belligerent by nature. While I don't think it's true that an 11-year-old child could never theoretically constitute a threat under the right circumstances, "not getting down immediately when told" just doesn't cut it in my opinion. Assuming that's the way that happened, it seems to me the officer was trying to physically scare the kid into obeying and that's not right. If that kid didn't have anything particular against police before, he sure as heck does now I'd wager.

 

[Manopolus]

I agree. I get an officer drawing a gun in response to a threat. I just don't believe noncompliance or passive resistance should get to be treated like a threat. Kids, especially, are quite often belligerent by nature. While I don't think it's true that an 11-year-old child could never theoretically constitute a threat under the right circumstances, "not getting down immediately when told" just doesn't cut it in my opinion. Assuming that's the way that happened, it seems to me the officer was trying to physically scare the kid into obeying and that's not right. If that kid didn't have anything particular against police before, he sure as heck does now I'd wager.

According to the article (which admittedly I only skimmed the first time and also contains no comments/explaination from the police department) it looks like the kid is saying that the officer had a gun out before even engaging with them verbally. I'd say that's even worse.

Omari told Diamant that two officers, one with his gun drawn, rolled up on him and a few of his friends as they built a fort in the trees behind his home.

I suppose the person who called the police might have suggested in some way that the kids were somehow dangerous... but I don't know if that's the case... and there would have to be a bit more involved with the story than what we know for it to be even close to justifiable in that case (maybe threatening the guy that originally tried to stop them in person and later called the police, perhaps? I'm just speculating here).

I'm not sure what to think of the source... doesn't look like they actually investigated the story beyond commentary from the family.

Unfortunately, the quote also used the term "rolled up on him" which sort of comes off as "wannabe gangsta" talk to my ears... but quite frankly, it doesn't matter how they talk... the question is about what actually "went down." It does sort of adversely affect one's image of the situation though, doesn't it? I don't think it actually reveals anything at all about the situation in question, but it is a poor choice of verbiage if you're talking to us old, uncool white guys (Note: not intending to imply racism... just rambling off topic at this point. Racial attitudes might have been part of it or not... quite frankly I haven't a clue).

 

[Grizzly Adams]

Just to throw this out there:

Prior experience also plays a part. It could be that this kid specifically or others in that household have been involved in violent encounters before and the cop knew that. In such cases it is prudent to go in prepared.

And no, you don't have to use your firearm if you draw it.

 

[The Norseman]

Just to throw this out there:

Prior experience also plays a part. It could be that this kid specifically or others in that household have been involved in violent encounters before and the cop knew that. In such cases it is prudent to go in prepared.

Yesss... that would fall under the concept of "totality of circumstances".